Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Noah · Post by **Noah** » Sat Jan 09, 2016 11:21 am

Beyond Limits SSJ4 is probably stronger than Vegetto as a whole, IMO.

Draconic · Post by **Draconic** » Sat Jan 09, 2016 11:41 am

Noah wrote:Beyond Limits SSJ4 is probably stronger than Vegetto as a whole, IMO.

Well, that's SSJ4 Goku, who is on par with Vegetto, adding the power of Gohan, Goten and Trunks, so that's pretty much a given.

Khin · Post by **Khin** » Sat Jan 09, 2016 1:15 pm

I like that tier list that dbgtFO posted,so i guess ill make my own too!

Spoiler:

Darkron2151 · Post by **Darkron2151** » Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:00 pm

apex_pretador wrote: It was stated that gohan's energy is half of the power required to awake majin buu ANNNND majin buu will be at half power if he is awaken with gohan's power alone.

Nope. Babidi only mentioned that Gohan's power was "almost half of the power needed". Needed for what? To revive Buu. Nothing was said about Buu's power else during that.

I'm not saying buu wasn't playing with vegeta, but still, vegeta was strong enough to hurt him a little. Not that vegeta was anywhere near him, but he was strong enough to trouble him with his strongest attacks (see cui vs vegeta for example)

I fail to see where Vegeta hurt him, even a little bit.Buu let Vegeta hit him a bunch of times and let him blast a hole through him, and he still came out just fine. And I'm not sure what Vegeta vs. Cui has anything to do with this. Buu was literally toying with Vegeta, a plaything (pretty much why Kaioshin didn't die immediately). Vegeta wanted Cui dead. By your logic, I guess SSJ Trunks with his sneak attack kick is not terribly off his father in power because it "hurt Buu a little".

1. Piccolo & all others were astonished by base gotenks' power.
2. Everyone acted like base gotenks was really the strongest of all among them.
3. Piccolo was unable to catch base gotenks, who he knew couldn't beat buu.

The gap must be there, even if not big. Base gotenks might be weaker than majin vegeta, but not piccolo.

So going by this, you either have Piccolo at least 50x weaker than SSJ3 Goku (If you assume Gotenks is on par with that if not stronger) or Goku's hypothesis on the boys' fusion doesn't mean anything. When he saw the boys' SSJ power, and thought, "hey, if we apply their SSJ form with the boost that I've witnessed fusion do, the total power output would surely be enough to beat Buu." If fusing in base yielded a stronger fusion boost than SSJ fusion, Goku would either have been wrong or was really lucky with his prediction still holding true. Either way, no one could use Goku's hypothesis about Gotenks as proof anymore. SSJ3 Gotenks may be a different story, but SSJ Gotenks should yield the same fusion boost as Base Gotenks for Goku's words to have meaning.

Nikkolas · Post by **Nikkolas** » Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:19 pm

Well the GT question was a bust so how about this.

What do people think 21st Budokai Goku's Power Level was? I had someone saying Oozaru 21st Goku would be the strongest thing up until Raditz but I need a base for the 10x multiplier to see if that's true.

LightBing · Post by **LightBing** » Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:45 pm

Nikkolas wrote:Well the GT question was a bust so how about this.

What do people think 21st Budokai Goku's Power Level was? I had someone saying Oozaru 21st Goku would be the strongest thing up until Raditz but I need a base for the 10x multiplier to see if that's true.

I have him at 25, which puts him weaker than Goku, Piccolo and Kami during the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai while Oozaru.

DanielSSJ · Post by **DanielSSJ** » Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:54 pm

Nikkolas wrote:Well the GT question was a bust so how about this.

What do people think 21st Budokai Goku's Power Level was? I had someone saying Oozaru 21st Goku would be the strongest thing up until Raditz but I need a base for the 10x multiplier to see if that's true.

This question depends entirely on whether or not you buy into the official Pre-Raditz power levels(22nd TB Goku at 180, King Piccolo at 260, etc.). A lot of people don't agree with them because they contradict statements, like how old King Piccolo only used half of his power to beat Goku.

If we ignore the official power levels, and take every "character grows many times stronger" and "I'm only using a fraction of my true power" statement at face value, 21st TB Goku would probably end up with a power level around 20, putting his Ozaru power level in the 200s.

If we take the official power levels into consideration (BoDB Goku at 10, 22nd TB Goku at 180, Choshinsui Goku at 260), I'd say 21st TB Goku would've been at somewhere in the 50s, making his Ozaru power level around 500.

On a separate note, what was the average power levels for the Saiyans in their heyday? More specifically, what was the average for each class: low class, middle class, and upper class? And how did Raditz, Nappa, and Vegeta fit into this?

ZombieVito · Post by **ZombieVito** » Sun Jan 10, 2016 2:25 am

I always assumed each one of them represented the 3 different classes.

Raditz: low class (500 - 2,500).
Nappa: middle class (2,500 - 5,000).
Vegeta: elite class (5,000 - 10,000).

apex_pretador · Post by **apex_pretador** » Sun Jan 10, 2016 3:15 am

Darkron2151 wrote:
apex_pretador wrote: It was stated that gohan's energy is half of the power required to awake majin buu ANNNND majin buu will be at half power if he is awaken with gohan's power alone.
Nope. Babidi only mentioned that Gohan's power was "almost half of the power needed". Needed for what? To revive Buu. Nothing was said about Buu's power else during that.

Babidi said that "if buu is awakened NOW , he will only awake at half HIS power." when gohan attacked his ship , just before majin vegeta & goku start fighting.

I'm not saying buu wasn't playing with vegeta, but still, vegeta was strong enough to hurt him a little. Not that vegeta was anywhere near him, but he was strong enough to trouble him with his strongest attacks (see cui vs vegeta for example)
I fail to see where Vegeta hurt him, even a little bit.Buu let Vegeta hit him a bunch of times and let him blast a hole through him, and he still came out just fine. And I'm not sure what Vegeta vs. Cui has anything to do with this. Buu was literally toying with Vegeta, a plaything (pretty much why Kaioshin didn't die immediately). Vegeta wanted Cui dead. By your logic, I guess SSJ Trunks with his sneak attack kick is not terribly off his father in power because it "hurt Buu a little".

Buu himself said that vegeta hurt him a little when he blasted him open.

1. Piccolo & all others were astonished by base gotenks' power.
2. Everyone acted like base gotenks was really the strongest of all among them.
3. Piccolo was unable to catch base gotenks, who he knew couldn't beat buu.

The gap must be there, even if not big. Base gotenks might be weaker than majin vegeta, but not piccolo.
So going by this, you either have Piccolo at least 50x weaker than SSJ3 Goku (If you assume Gotenks is on par with that if not stronger) or Goku's hypothesis on the boys' fusion doesn't mean anything. When he saw the boys' SSJ power, and thought, "hey, if we apply their SSJ form with the boost that I've witnessed fusion do, the total power output would surely be enough to beat Buu." If fusing in base yielded a stronger fusion boost than SSJ fusion, Goku would either have been wrong or was really lucky with his prediction still holding true. Either way, no one could use Goku's hypothesis about Gotenks as proof anymore. SSJ3 Gotenks may be a different story, but SSJ Gotenks should yield the same fusion boost as Base Gotenks for Goku's words to have meaning.

[/quote]
I think that we must focus on SS3 goku vs SS2 goku for now & we can discuss gotenks later.

DanielSSJ · Post by **DanielSSJ** » Sun Jan 10, 2016 3:21 am

Zombie wrote:I always assumed each one of them represented the 3 different classes.

Raditz: low class (500 - 2,500).
Nappa: middle class (2,500 - 5,000).
Vegeta: elite class (5,000 - 10,000).

My class divisions are a little different, Low class includes anyone under 3,000, though most adult Saiyans are at least 1,000. In that context, Raditz, at 1,500, is a run-of-the-mill lower class Saiyan. Middle class Saiyans are anywhere from 3,000 and up, though most of them cap at around 5,000. Nappa, at 4,000, would've been a slightly above average mid-class Saiyan, though it's possible that he got weaker with age, or something. The Elite Class is exclusive to the royal family, though they average at about 8,000 to 10,000. Vegeta, at 18,000, would be considered freakishly strong.

apex_pretador · Post by **apex_pretador** » Sun Jan 10, 2016 3:32 am

Nikkolas wrote:Well the GT question was a bust so how about this.

What do people think 21st Budokai Goku's Power Level was? I had someone saying Oozaru 21st Goku would be the strongest thing up until Raditz but I need a base for the 10x multiplier to see if that's true.

I think that he may not be stronger than BoZ goku , due to the fact that goku was really weakened before transformation, but if he transformed before the battle , he might have been strongest being before raditz.

ZombieVito · Post by **ZombieVito** » Sun Jan 10, 2016 3:47 am

DanielSSJ wrote:
Zombie wrote:I always assumed each one of them represented the 3 different classes.

Raditz: low class (500 - 2,500).
Nappa: middle class (2,500 - 5,000).
Vegeta: elite class (5,000 - 10,000).
My class divisions are a little different, Low class includes anythone under 3,000, though most adult Saiyans are at least 1,000. Middle class Saiyans are anywhere from 3,000 and up, though most of them cap at around 5,000. The Elite Class is exclusive to the royal family, though they average at about 8,000 to 10,000. Vegeta, at 18,000, would be considered freakishly strong.

I was just putting random numbers there. Yours are better for sure.

Saiga · Post by **Saiga** » Sun Jan 10, 2016 4:00 am

Nikkolas wrote:Well the GT question was a bust so how about this.

What do people think 21st Budokai Goku's Power Level was? I had someone saying Oozaru 21st Goku would be the strongest thing up until Raditz but I need a base for the 10x multiplier to see if that's true.

I go by 23rd Budokai Goku = 910 like the Jump battle powers say, so Goku's not even close. He'd be a 50 at best without Oozaru.

Hugo Boss · Post by **Hugo Boss** » Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:56 am

apex_pretador wrote:Babidi said that "if buu is awakened NOW , he will only awake at half HIS power." when gohan attacked his ship , just before majin vegeta & goku start fighting.

Actually, it was when Goku and Yakon were about to fight.

apex_pretador · Post by **apex_pretador** » Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:18 am

Hugo Boss wrote:
apex_pretador wrote:Babidi said that "if buu is awakened NOW , he will only awake at half HIS power." when gohan attacked his ship , just before majin vegeta & goku start fighting.
Actually, it was when Goku and Yakon were about to fight.

but before goku & majin vegeta fight. So, doesn't it mean that :

2x adult gohan = fat majin buu

SSJ2FutureGohan · Post by **SSJ2FutureGohan** » Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:43 am

http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8548492/1/

apex_pretador · Post by **apex_pretador** » Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:25 am

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8548492/1/

It follows from INCORRECT assumption that SS3 is 4x SS2 for goku.

Darkron2151 · Post by **Darkron2151** » Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:33 am

apex_pretador wrote: It follows from INCORRECT assumption that SS3 is 4x SS2 for goku.

How is it incorrect? Because you say it is? Also, it is not an "assumption". It's an official statement coming from supplementary material that anyone has the right to take as credible or not so.

The only thing you've shown for SSJ3 not being that strong is a subjective interpretation on how Gohan's collected power works with meter's readings and whether or not it specifically mentions Buu's power as a whole or just the power needed to be "jump started".

DanielSSJ · Post by **DanielSSJ** » Sun Jan 10, 2016 12:42 pm

To be honest, the whole "Fat Boo is 2x SSJ2 Gohan" thing doesn't even contradict the statement that SSJ3 is 4x SSJ2. Goku was confident that he could've beaten Fat Boo at SSJ3, so we know he has a decent power advantage. Whose to say he didn't have a 2x advantage?

Edit: Kaboom's posts on this http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8548492/1/ forum pretty much sum up my opinion about the whole SSJ2 vs. Fat Boo vs. SSJ3 debacle.

ahill1 · Post by **ahill1** » Sun Jan 10, 2016 3:14 pm

apex_pretador wrote:
Hugo Boss wrote:
apex_pretador wrote:Babidi said that "if buu is awakened NOW , he will only awake at half HIS power." when gohan attacked his ship , just before majin vegeta & goku start fighting.
Actually, it was when Goku and Yakon were about to fight.
but before goku & majin vegeta fight. So, doesn't it mean that :

2x adult gohan = fat majin buu

Seems fine Fat Boo being 2x Gohan SSJ2, but Good Boo must be stronger than Majin Vegeta/Goku SSJ2 and Good Boo is <50% than Fat Boo. Therefore Fat Boo being only 2x Teen Gohan SSJ2 is a impossibility.

I have a theory that only Initial Fat Boo ( without power up ) is ~2x Teen Gohan SSJ2. Teen Gohan SSJ2 is ~45% of Fat Boo ( initial ). It fits pretty well with Gohan thinking that with his real power ( SSJ2 IMO ), he could manage something against Fat Boo ( initial ).

Teen Gohan 600
--- SSJ 30,000
--- SSJ2/real power 60,000 ( 45% of initial Fat Boo/ could manage something against his initial power )

Vegeta 675
--- SSJ 33,750
--- SSJ2 67,500

Majin Vegeta 800
--- SSJ 40,000
--- SSJ2 80,000

Son Goku 800
--- SSJ 40,000
--- SSJ2 80,000
--- SSJ3 320,000

Fat Boo ( initial ) 66,000 ( roughly 2x stronger than Gohan SSJ2 )
--- Powered up 90,000 ( stronger than Majin Vegeta and Goku SSJ2 )
--- Full Power 270,000 ( weaker than Goku SSJ3 by a noticeable amount )

Kanzenshuu

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