Why do people hate main characters?

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Lionel
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Re: Why do people hate main characters?

Post by Lionel » Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:37 pm

ABED wrote:
His single-minded thirst for combat is exaggerated to the point where all good sense of pragmatism has often been tossed into the wayside
It's not exaggerated, his appetite exaggerated, his love of battle is who he is. I know what a caricature is.
You mean to tell me that a person who is willing to endanger civilisations and innocent people by allowing a murderer like Vegeta to live just so he can have a powerful rival to challenge him in the future, who abandons all notions of pragmatism or fairness for his own gratification like allowing Gero's plans to go unabated isn't taking the satisfaction obtained from fighting to extreme levels? This man has time and again put his own thirst for combat before all good sense. He virtually personifies the exhilaration of fighting to degrees that no sensible person would dare venture towards. That's practically all he is a fighting junkie.
Letting Raditz go has nothing to do with his love of battle, it happened because Goku is naïve. Goku's logic in giving Cell a senzu wasn't twisted. Cell had no chance of winning. It made ZERO difference.
I didn't cite his insatiable combat lust as the motivation for letting Raditz go. I was establishing a connection between his naivety and the technical interpretation of the word "grotesque" -- and by extension the original caricature terminology first used -- which happens to encompass the appallingly naive degree of thinking he showed when believing that Raditz was actually telling the truth about leaving the planet if his tail was released.

There wasn't really any actual guarantee of Goku's scheme working. His plan involved a number of random variables that were beyond his control like Gohan's quickness in becoming angry, the aversion towards fighting he has and Cell's willingness to indulge this child rather than simply kill him and resume fighting his intended target. Goku himself recognised the folly of allowing his son to fight once Piccolo explained that he didn't enjoy fighting and was prepared to intefere before Cell released Gohan. The only reason why things turned out the way they did is because circumstances just happened to be smiling down on Goku so #16 could act as the catalyst for Gohan becoming powerful enough to defeat Cell.
You act as though it's the worst thing. So what if they did eventually fade out of being important to the story and keep only Goku and Vegeta important to fighting the protagonists? Is that the worst thing? And how often did any of the other characters stand a chance against the central protagonists besides Goku? With all of the things you pointed out, Gohan, Kuririn, Piccolo, Yamcha, etc. where rarely able to fight the big bad. Either the big bad needed to be weakened a lot or they were helpful in some other way. Gohan and Kuririn were helpful on Namek by getting the DB's. Things like that make sense for the supporting players.
I won't deny that a large part of the problem has to do with the system in place. I think it's an antiquated exclusionist formula that ostracises virtually everyone besides a select few characters. It's for that reason that I wish the developers of Super would try to innovate the system in some way rather than use the same thing from twenty years ago. We know that Toriyama was capable of giving substantial importance to other characters in major fights -- the first Vegeta fight is a good example of this.

I think people watched the original Dragon Ball Z for more than just Goku or Vegeta. These other characters are beloved -- more often than not there's topics on various forums asking and theorising about ways they could have been kept relevant. One of the major criticisms of GT is that Goku was the only character of any notability in the show. He is the protagonist, but there comes a point when even viewers feel that they're being oversaturated with this character with no variety in the active character roster. If you want to challenge the idea of keeping others relevant, why don't we ask why Vegeta has been allowed to stay important all this time. He's not the protagonist. He's just another random adversary that came after Tenshinhan and Piccolo who's clung to viability all this time for whatever reason instead of quietly shifting into obscurity like everyone else who came before him. What makes him so special that he's allowed to trot alongside Goku as the deuteragonist today?
Last edited by Lionel on Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Gaffer Tape
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Re: Why do people hate main characters?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:06 pm

nickzambuto wrote:Wow man, that is such a great way to put it. It's quite a tragedy how in the western Dragon Ball fandom, most people can't help but look at the Z portion as the 'real' story, the main event, with everything before Raditz being more like a prequel. Even I, despite being AWARE of this tragedy, can not help it, it's almost a subconscious thing. I am unable to put Dragon Ball in the correct chronological order, I just automatically think of the Z portion and then everything before is a prequel, and trust me I try REALLY hard not to do that. But it's like a subconscious thing that I can't control. But the way you put it, where if Zoro became like Krillin or Yamcha, you're damn right. That puts everything into perspective.
Hmm. I really don't get it, though. I, like so many, also came into the series through "Z," and yet I have no trouble putting that aside and looking at the series in the context of the way it was released. If I had to guess, I'd say you can't because you strongly prefer the "Z" portion. Is that correct?
Ah, who cares, just think about it that way if you really want to. It's not like this western part of the fanbase is the only one that does that. You also have other series like Star Wars prequels. Sure, it came after the originals, but many people didn't pay much attention to them despite how successful they were, and I never seen anyone complain about people ignoring most of the prequels of that series.
Well... that's because they ARE prequels. I just find it somewhat amusing that nickzambuto states that people treat Dragon Ball like a prequel, and your response is to basically say, "Well, people also treat prequels like prequels." To that I can only say, "Naturally! But what does that have to do with Dragon Ball, which isn't a prequel or even a separate series?"
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Kid Buu
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Re: Why do people hate main characters?

Post by Kid Buu » Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:17 pm

From my experience, most people seem to think the DB TV Series was a prequel because they are under the impression it was made after Z.
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Man-Child
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Re: Why do people hate main characters?

Post by Man-Child » Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:40 am

If there is hate for certain characters, it may just come down to certain personality types and flaws that some just aren't fans of. I've heard of people not liking Gohan for being a passive fighter, or Goku for being a meat head, and there's nothing wrong with either of those criticisms. It just comes down to taste.

I personally have never been a fan of Vegeta, but there are still aspects of his character that I still enjoy. Even then, I don't really care if others like him more or less.

My only problem with the main characters as a whole is that they often take away exposure from other characters, who as a result, get pushed to the side and are sometimes forgotten.

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successoroffate
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Re: Why do people hate main characters?

Post by successoroffate » Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:40 am

Is a matter of degree between "don't liking" characters and "hating them." But here's my take, If you hate over 80% of the Characters and you are just waiting for your favorite character, who hasn't being in the spotlight in ages, to get attention and love for only 2 seconds ? Then, I think you are watching the wrong show.

Here's an example from the kind of people we get here:
" I am a Dragon Ball Fan but I hate Vegeta, Goku, Gohan, Piccolo, Roshi, Goten, Trunks and my favorite Character is Monster Carrot and I am pretty sure TOEI and Toriyama Hate him and that's why he is not in the show anymore." Yeah, I think DB is not for you mate.
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