SSJ3 + Kaioken Goku

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Darkprince410
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Re: SSJ3 + Kaioken Goku

Post by Darkprince410 » Tue Jan 12, 2016 8:09 am

Your example isn't the same. There's TONS of doubts as to whether Krillin is stronger than Piccolo. Here Vegeta says there's no doubt that Goku is the best after Kid Buu's defeat. Vegeta doesn't even say it's directly causal. Kid Buu's destruction allowed Goku to be the best with no doubts. That's it. He doesn't say Goku is the best because he beat Kid Buu. He just says that after Kid Buu is defeated Goku is now the best. The simplest interpretation is that Kid Buu was the strongest. Goku was the next strongest or his equal. Then with no Kid Buu, Goku is the strongest now. No matter the interpretation Goku is the best once Kid Buu is out of the picture.
Actually, looking at the line, there's nothing specifically saying it's about strength at all. He's specifically saying that, after defeating Buu, Goku is obviously #1, and we've clearly seen before that he's referred to Goku as being #1 due to his drive to fight (the whole "he doesn't fight to win, but fights because he won't lose" comment and what spurs him on to be the best fighter.

Besides, there's tons of doubts about Goku being stronger than Gohan or Gotenks when he himself flat out states that he and Vegeta can't win against a form of Buu that Gotenks was equal to and Gohan was stronger than, and that he fought evenly against a form of Buu that he outright indicated had a power drop from when he was previously Evil Buu.
"Goku tried to have the next generation resolve this problem, but in the end he was the one who defeated Buu, the strongest in the universe"
No, that's one of the lines that talks about Buu in general, and not a specific form of Buu. It's saying that, when Gotenks and Gohan were unable to resolve the problem of Ma-jin Buu, the overall strongest opponent in the universe they had to face, he had to take care of it. Since neither Gotenks nor Gohan ever fought Pure Buu, it's not possible for Goku to have had them try to resolve the problem of fighting him, so it's obvious he's talking about Buu in general.

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MisterGuyMan
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Re: SSJ3 + Kaioken Goku

Post by MisterGuyMan » Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:21 am

Darkprince410 wrote:Actually, looking at the line, there's nothing specifically saying it's about strength at all. He's specifically saying that, after defeating Buu, Goku is obviously #1, and we've clearly seen before that he's referred to Goku as being #1 due to his drive to fight (the whole "he doesn't fight to win, but fights because he won't lose" comment and what spurs him on to be the best fighter.

Besides, there's tons of doubts about Goku being stronger than Gohan or Gotenks when he himself flat out states that he and Vegeta can't win against a form of Buu that Gotenks was equal to and Gohan was stronger than, and that he fought evenly against a form of Buu that he outright indicated had a power drop from when he was previously Evil Buu.
Goku said he couldn't win only as he currently was and he was currently tiny. The statement you're citing has a clear conditional "If we go out like this..." that leaves a huge amount of margin. Conversely if you think standard SS3 Goku can't beat Gohan or Gotenks, then that would constitute as a clear doubt that he's #1 in the universe. There's no conditional there. What's more Vegeta says there's no doubt. So anything that can constitute a doubt isn't a possibility here. One statement has a vague conditional. The other statement says there's no doubt. Obviously the one from DB Super is more definitive.
No, that's one of the lines that talks about Buu in general, and not a specific form of Buu. It's saying that, when Gotenks and Gohan were unable to resolve the problem of Ma-jin Buu, the overall strongest opponent in the universe they had to face, he had to take care of it. Since neither Gotenks nor Gohan ever fought Pure Buu, it's not possible for Goku to have had them try to resolve the problem of fighting him, so it's obvious he's talking about Buu in general.
You're interpretation is factually not right though. You say that Buu in general is the strongest in the universe but Buu in general isn't always the strongest in the universe. Vegito was stronger than Buuhan. Gohan was stronger than Super Buu. SS3 Goku was stronger than Fat Buu. Moreover the statement is specific in the version of Buu it's identifying as the strongest in the universe. It specifically says that Goku "defeated Buu the strongest in the universe." So no this isn't Buu in general since Goku only beat one Buu. You can't even claim he beat Buu in general since Fat Buu was standing right next to him. He ONLY beat Kid Buu. This version of Buu, the one that he defeated, ie Kid Buu, is labeled as the strongest in the universe. Not Fat Buu, not Super Buu, not Buu in general. Just the Buu that Goku defeated, Kid Buu.

Your criticism also opens up the possibility of why Goku never just teleported Gohan or Gotenks into the fight. If the goal is to have the next generation finish of the fight then there's nothing stopping that. Afterward Goku said that without Satan and Fat Buu everyone would have died. That again means Gohan and Gotenks couldn't have been teleported in just to save the day. Heck even a relative weakling like Gohan skipped the line and was sent from the waystation to fight Kid Buu. Gohan would've been forced through that same process given a few hours.

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