Do we expect too much from Super?

[Vijay]

Wanting is wish

Doing is work/effort

You dont get what you wish for. You get what you work for

TOEI doesn't wish to progress, nor does it wants to progress.

Now studios like MadHouse, Sunrise & BONES are examples of effort & its result = success/accomplishment

Both of us can toss generalized statements & quotes all day long. Its not changin TOEI's absymal management of DragonBall franchise ever since GT, dating way back to 1996. We're here 2016

[sintzu]

I didn't expect it to be an award winning show but I did expect it to be at least good which it isn't overall.

Hopefully it'll improve once we get to the U6 arc but considering what a step down the RF arc is from BOG, I'm afraid it's just going to get worse so if that's the case then hopefully they've got a movie adaption of U6 in the works.

With a brand name like DragonBall, there's certain bar which has been set by "Z".

I'll suggest even most hardcore DBZ fan to give Supa a miss & rather watch Naruto.

We're to the point where expecting Super to just be good is expecting too much so expecting it to live up to Z is beyond unrealistic at this point even though that's the least it should be considering it's over 20 years old.

If I had to pick between this and Naruto or any other Shonen I'd pick the latter any day and this is coming from a die hard fan of this franchise.

[ShadowBardock89]

I'll suggest even most hardcore DBZ fan to give Supa a miss & rather watch Naruto (a show which doesnt hold a candle to GT imo)

If you are talking about the filler, yes, its agonizing. As a fan of the franchise since 2005/06, I can safely say Shippuden is in a desperate need of a "Kai" version (as in filler reduction). It is not too far fetched since the original show did get one called Naruto: Shounen-Hen (removed filler, HD Remastered, added new 2D & 3D effects). I would totally buy the Blu Rays of that! But, I digress.

I was hoping they would expand on things that the movies left out (How did Goku & Vegeta get the Blueper Saiyan Form? Did Vegeta become a Super Saiyan God at one point?), but we got things that downright contradicted the movies instead (Togoma/Ginyu, anyone?). Its been a mixed bag so far, but we are getting into original material, so I honestly do not know what to expect.

[Vijay]

Um, I was not talking about the fillers. The show actually. But since your a self-proclaimed fan of the show, I wouldnt wanna badmouth just for the sake of it. I'm a very neutral anime viewer for your information. I genuinely appreciate good shows, regardless of its genre. With that bein said, if there ever was an anime which turned me into a passionate hater, it. Was. Naruto.

[Lionel]

Hoping for quality isn't necessarily wrong or overly critical. From what I understand -- isn't Super being promoted as an official continuation to the original manga storyline? If that is true then this is the real continuance of the series that we grew to love years ago. I don't personally believe Super has met those expectations as a successor. It could change with the Champa arc, but I've learned to maintain a cautious outlook when it comes to hoping for something.

[FoolsGil]

We've all heard the arguments, its just lazy writing, full of fan service (return of Pilaf, Freeza & Ginyu), animation is abysmal, the list goes on, but then again we all loved Z but most agree that wasn't exactly a well written show with a world class budget either, even if the flawed aspects weren't as extreme as what we've seen with Super.

My thing with Super is that I don't expect the story to be the second coming of Shakespeare. I acknowledge Super's problems, but to me its just a fun series with colourful characters having fights with flashy action sequences, and it has its funny moments here and there, and I like having a show I can watch just for that.

That's not really a good analogy. Shakespere isn't that good either. Hamlet is effing stupid.

But overall your arguement is 'it's okay if something is not good.' Why watch a bad show? Don't you realize that if you accept crap, then the creators will give you more crap? Things get better if you refuse to put up with something. That's why Dragonball Evolution tanked and there has been no sequel. No one wanted a bad movie, no one saw the bad movie. But you are arguing effectively, to go watch that bad movie, just because. That's awful thinking and if we listen to you, We'd be on Evolution 3 by now or something.

And then why is it off to extremes with you? We just want a good show and you misconstrue it to us wanting perfection? There is a middle ground you know. You mention that Z had less flaws. Well the solution is obvious, Toei needs to bring their work ethic from the 80's and 90's then.

Arguably TOEI should put more effort into the animation sometimes, but in terms of character development and narrative should we be expecting more from a kid's show, and one which is a continuation of a story that had few places left to go with where the Buu saga left off?

You're really rustling my Jimmy's now. Batman The Animated Series is a Kid's Show and one of the best Western cartoons from the 90's. Adventure Time, Gravity Falls, Regular Show, Steven Universe, FIM, take your pick, these are the best Western Cartoons and kids show from this generation! And the One Piece anime has been around since 1999 and has been the best animated shonen on TV for almost 20 years and what do you know? It's A Kid's show.

Kid's show is not an excuse to allow bad tv, trying that excuse reduces your credibility.

[Basaku]

No, we expect too little from Super and anime in general which gives Toei and other companies an excuse to keep running this art form into ground more and more each year, with the employees along for the 'ride' (especially lower hierarchy employees and artists). Neverending excuses, explanations, trying to 'muddle up' the blame. Unless the audience (consumers) put greater pressure nothing will change.

[Ashelia]

I don't see how wanting a new series to not have the same pitfalls and flaws the previous entries had is expecting too much.

Dragon Ball as a whole has always been a mixed bag to me and unlike many I do not hold Z in high regard so Super held no promise for me. Even so I'm troubled by the notion that DB after 20 years still doesn't have to be consistent, animated well, properly paced, etc because this is par for the course as if high quality and Dragon Ball cannot coexist. Its like a McDonald's consumers saying "I'm gonna buy the damn burger anyways so who cares how they make it", just ahh.

If you like Super then cool, have fun but if being kind of tolerable is seen as the default or even excepted setting of DB I feel we have a bigger problem.

[dbzfan7]

It's worse than I expected, but I didn't expect much to begin with after the two movies. At best I thought it'd at least be enjoyable and decent. My expectation was it'd just be like GT, except Toriyama's name being involved, so any similar faults it could have will be hand waved. The result was worse. It's more boring and far less interesting. It's especially bad now that the amazing One Punch Man (which is better than Super in every way imaginable) is now not around to pick the ball up once Super drops it time and time again. Now the stink of disappointment doesn't have that lovely bald guy in the corner to make me forget how lame Super Saturdays usually are.

[fadeddreams5]

The expectations for Super aren't too much at all. People just happen to have standards.

There is nothing positive I can say about Super so far. Not a goddamn thing. The animation is undoubtedly the worst I have ever personally experienced in a modern anime, and the battle choreography is so uninspired and stiff that it's downright embarrassing considering that's what DBZ was even known for. The characterizations of Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan almost physically hurt me and make me feel bitter over the show. The comedy is unfunny, yet takes up the bulk of Super. Any and all serious scenes are cutaway for the sake of some awful gag. The transformations and training scenes display a lack of creativity. The music is bland. There is no emotion anywhere.

It's just a really bad show. Love it or hate it, even GT had more effort put into it.

I'm still somewhat optimistic the show will get better by the Uni 6 arc. Maybe I'll even like it.

[soleil444]

We just want a good / decent animation and good fight, not anymore. For me, i dont expect too much, just the things they make Dragon Ball. But i feel upset when i discover a worst anime.
This week for exemple, i watch the Boo arc of DBZ. I just capture + of 100 images. Differences with DBS were just huges:
DBZ: Arc Boo – Quelques dizaines des meilleures captures! http://urlz.fr/2X0R
Animation quality is the first thing to have in any show, i don't know what happened with designers of DBS. May be they combined design & drinking a sake

[Ssgvegito30]

I bet you are watching a bd quality of dbz buu arc episodes you can't compare super with those because most of the bad art and animation is fixed for z, in the case of super this series is on going and animators have little to no time to meet the deadlines for an episode meaning they have no time to correct any bad shots.

DragonBallz had bad animation and art too, it's nothing new with toei, toei is known for its bad animation and art look at one piece for that matter...

[phattangent]

I personally expect NOTHING from Super other than pure Dragon Ball nostalgia. The fact that I'm able to watch official new Dragon Ball episodes every week is enough for me.

[soleil444]

I bet you are watching a bd quality of dbz buu arc episodes you can't compare super with those because most of the bad art and animation is fixed for z, in the case of super this series is on going and animators have little to no time to meet the deadlines for an episode meaning they have no time to correct any bad shots.

DragonBallz had bad animation and art too, it's nothing new with toei, toei is known for its bad animation and art look at one piece for that matter...

it's a good joke
Any show have all the time to create a good things

[dbzfan7]

I bet you are watching a bd quality of dbz buu arc episodes you can't compare super with those because most of the bad art and animation is fixed for z, in the case of super this series is on going and animators have little to no time to meet the deadlines for an episode meaning they have no time to correct any bad shots.

DragonBallz had bad animation and art too, it's nothing new with toei, toei is known for its bad animation and art look at one piece for that matter...

Of course Z had bad art too. Heck some offensives could be worse than Super. Difference is Z is entertaining and so it's easier to look past bad art at times. Super is mostly a total bore and not entertaining, so it's harder to enjoy it when it's got little to enjoy. Bad art doesn't mean something is automatically bad. Take ONE'S webcomic. Especially early on it looks terrible. However the characters and story are so enjoyable that no one really cares and still enjoy his webcomic.

[Ssgvegito30]

The only reason I didn't enjoy super is because super was covering the retelling of the 2 recent movies not because of bad art or animation I'll let it pass if the story is good and to an extent the fight choreography between goku and frieza it was boring to watch...

[soleil444]

Agree, the 2 films for 2 arcs isn't a good idea.
But they are so many negatives parts: films, bad choregraphy, bad fight, bad animation, rythm too slow...And the stories aren't rich

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

I think we should expect more from Super than what we have been given, because with the new decade the standards of anime storytelling and visual aesthetics have changed greatly from what Z in its airing got away with. Though even Z at its peak depending on the artists aged well, while the modern artists tend to hold the series back with an even lower quality in animation and choreography. To me DB has either of 2 standards to meet. Story can be overlooked if the animation is good, its why the fighting scenes have kept people connected to interests, when they were done well - you don't really care why characters are fighting. Like in the Namek Saga or the Kid Buu fight. Even battle of Gods to a degree. Where as if they can't get the aesthetics to impress a standard set today by modern anime, even of the same genre, then it has to be redeemable at least in narrative. For most of Super, neither has been met. Super also has a lot to fill in order to make itself worth the effort in order to justify itself over GT. If Super's presentation is worse than GT's then it says even worse about the production team and the quality of this high-esteemed continuation. Thus far until U6's arc. Super barely did anything better than the worst Saiyan Saga filler. There is no reason why Super shouldn't look phenomenal, there is no reason to have stiff, low-frame rate animation, horribly simplistic effects, bad pacing today but above all things, I have yet to see a dynamic fight happen animation wise. Even something to the park of Kill La Kill or Gurren Lagann was something I wished the series would evolved into. But it hasn't. The presentation of Super to me just feels horribly dated and shoddy.

[sintzu]

Story can be overlooked if the animation is good.

Gt's production quality is really good but it gets a lot of hate due to it's story not being good.

Super's story has been really good so far but it gets a lot of hate due to it's production being a complete mess.

So based on the above, both production and story are important for an anime to be successful and one isn't enough no matter how good it is.

[pacz360]

Both you two are right gt had aright animation but suffered due to poor story,etc super at the moment has a good story however is getting bogged down by bad animation and among other things.