When did liking the dub become acceptable?

[MozillaVulpix]

Question from someone who hasn't been part of the fandom for years:

From what I can tell, on the early ages of the internet, the common consensus was that the DBZ dub was the worst thing to grace mankind, and bashing it was a very popular thing to do.

Of course, nowadays, the average fan grew up watching Funimation's original dub on television, and a lot of them don't know that the dub does a lot of things wrong compared to the original. This is very obvious when the "Kai sucks because the voices are different" bandwagon started.

If you checked the internet in the late-90's, it seemed like the average fan was a sub fan. Nowadays, the vast majority are dub fans. Just look at the comments for any DBZ clip on YouTube.

When exactly did this shift? I'm assuming it was when the fans of the broadcast dub grew up. Year-wise, was there a time period where everyone suddenly started defending the dub, and it was catching everyone by surprise?

[TripleRach]

My guess would be somewhere around the mid to late 2000s.

Most of the older generation of "subbies" seemed to lose interest in the franchise and move on with their lives. The ones that remained seemed to mature and stopped worrying about "dubbies." That generation also came from a time where there was no guarantee we'd ever have the entire franchise legally available in an uncut form, which was probably the main inspiration for seeking out the Japanese version in the first place.

The people who were small children watching Toonami in the late 90s/early 00s were not online reading about all these edits and changes, and they had everything from Pilaf to Yi Xing Long available to watch before they could even think about it. The Japanese audio was just a curiosity for them, at best. But they grew into teenagers and started joining online forums, eventually becoming the majority. Someone who was 5 in 1998 (the Toonami premiere) would have become old enough to register for forums in 2006.

Although even in the oldest days of Daizex/Kanzenshuu, this felt like one of the only Dragon Ball forums that prioritized the Japanese version. So maybe it actually started out in the early 2000s, after Planet Namek and DBZ Uncensored shut down.

[TheBlackPaladin]

I would also add that it might depend on what you mean by "the dub." Because if you mean the DBZ dub then, well, there's still not a lot of love for that dub coming from the "subbie" community. I think a lot of the subbies were also very angry at the time because it felt like the (brazenly unfaithful) dub was getting prioritized over the version that they preferred. Sort of like FUNimation was saying, "HERE'S OUR HARDCORE-ROCKER DUB OF DRAGON BALL ZEEEEEEE....alsotheoriginalverson."

From my observation as somebody who started watching DBZ in 1998, started to become aware of the dub's shortcomings in 2006, and fully acknowledged how sub-par the dub was in 2010, it's my belief that there were two big turning points in how subbies viewed the dub:

-The release of the Dragon Boxes.
-The release of the KAO (Kai And Onward) dubs.

The release of the Dragon Boxes was a big deal for the subbie community, not just because they were getting a home video release of DBZ with the best video and audio quality available at that point, but also because it was a home video release that specifically targeted subbies (there's a reason the default audio track on those DVD boxes is the Japanese audio track, with the inclusion of a dub track even being described by a FUNimation employee as an "afterthought"). It was a big gesture from FUNimation to the subbies that said, "We acknowledge that you guys matter."

In turn, this helped turn down the animosity towards the dub, because now that they had an option to watch the version they liked in great quality, the gang-war mentality of "Subbies VS Dubbies" was toned down to more of a respectful disagreement, sort of like, "Eh, the dub's not for me, but it's OK, I got the version I want, so we're good."

Then we get to the Kai dub, and things only got better. There are still a few subbies here and there who say that it still wasn't quite enough of an improvement for them, but I have yet to find any subbie who says that the Kai dub is a downgrade from what came before. Whereas we used to be dealing with a dub that wasn't really even trying to emulate the spirit of the original Japanese version, now we have a dub that, in spite of the occasional minor hiccup here and there, clearly is being written, directed, and acted with a very conscious effort this time around to make an English version of the original show, and not a new version of the show entirely. This only got better as the Kai dub went on and as we got great dubs of the new movies.

[Hellspawn28]

Most of the older generation of "subbies" seemed to lose interest in the franchise and move on with their lives.

It makes me feel old and sad that happens. I do miss back in the old days of the Dragon Balls when a lot of those fans are common to fine. Old school Otakus are hard to fine these days too. Today, you still have fans that don't like the dub. Nostalgia affect of the old dubs plays apart too.

[B]

I'm not really sure if it ever became "acceptable" so much as a lot of people got tired of fighting. Is there any original Japanese enthusiast, minus one really loud guy, that blithers about angrily over the dub anymore? We've all said what we have to say on it, for the most part.

if you were to judge the amount of "what's your opinion on this aspect/time period/single performance of the dub" threads that pop up, it would seem like it's anything but acceptable; like dub fans need qualifiers to justify enjoying what they enjoy. A fan of the original going "that's not so bad" or "I don't mind that change" is like crack to them.

[TheBigBoy]

Man, I used to frequent the planetnamek.com forums back in the late 90's/early 2000's and the argument between "subbies" and "dubbies" were among the ugliest flame wars I ever saw on the Internet. Glad that's died off.

[Hellspawn28]

We still have sub vs. dub wars here. I remember when Ocean vs. Funi wars was common over 10 years ago. That seem to die out years ago.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Another factor I forgot to mention is that, in the beginning, some subbies were being very vocal about the shortcomings they perceived with the dub because they were hoping it would start a chain reaction leading to FUNimation changing their ways. They hoped that pointing out FUNimation's changes would make fans angry, who in turn would write to FUNimation and demand changes, who in turn would start making a loyal dub. When that didn't happen particularly soon, a lot of subbies just lost the will to fight for it and decided it wasn't worth the hassle...with some even admitting that even if the dub were made more faithful, they were still going to watch and enjoy the subbed version pretty much exclusively.

An interesting question, though, is this: did the goal of changing FUNimation's ways work? Clearly not fast enough to save the DBZ dub, but I think one could make a case that even if it didn't get FUNimation to change their ways immediately, it did get them to change their ways eventually. Again, too late--by many years--to save the DBZ dub, but perhaps it did help spawn the great dubs we have from Kai and onward.

[The Patrolman]

Oh great these again. This has gone from Ocean vs Funimation, Kai vs OG dub, and our world famous Dub vs Sub. Either way this community will never ever stopping on which is better. Don't believe me go on youtube

[Soppa Saia People]

Oh great these again. This has gone from Ocean vs Funimation, Kai vs OG dub, and our world famous Dub vs Sub. Either way this community will never ever stopping on which is better. Don't believe me go on youtube

Please read the op.

[EXBadguy]

This has gone from Ocean vs Funimation

There were actually debates between those two?

[The Patrolman]

This has gone from Ocean vs Funimation

There were actually debates between those two?

Yeah I'm serious. There is a guy who said videos about the Ocean did everything better than Funimation did

[Soppa Saia People]

RE. The Patrolman
This isn't a sub and dub "war" this is someone asking a legitimate question about when did the dub became mainstream.

[The Patrolman]

RE. The Patrolman
This isn't a sub and dub "war" this is someone asking a legitimate question about when did the dub became mainstream.

Oh I get it. Maybe when the internet became a well known thing to do. People started uploading of the dub version more and when Kai came around people rejected they already got a version of the series they wanted.

[TheBlackPaladin]

This has gone from Ocean vs Funimation

There were actually debates between those two?

Between those two companies, no. Actually, the companies don't seem to acknowledge one another, and what little the FUNimation cast has said about the Ocean cast (and vice versa) has been very civil and complimentary. I think some fans were hoping that the voice actors would hate the voice actors on the other cast, but in reality, they're human beings just like the other cast, and they're actors, just like the other cast. They have no ill will towards one another, and many have expressed an interest in meeting their Ocean/FUNimation counterparts. In fact, some have!

Between the fanbases for those two dubs, though? Oh dear, yes. I don't know if it's still there, but the dub comparison page for DBZ on the website, "Behind the Voice Actors" said at the top, "Never ask a DBZ fan which dub they prefer." I can't speak for other people who are familiar with the ongoing debates, but in my case, I laughed when I read that in a "that's so true" kind of way. I've seen plenty an ugly argument started between the two fanbases.

[Dbzfan94]

Idk why but I seriously got a pompous impression at the title of this thread, basically implying "why do people like what I hate" but thankfully in the actual post, that didn't seem to be the case.

[precita]

Two reasons:

1. Hardcore Dragonball fans got what they want, DVDs with subtitles.

2. Dub fans who were originally kids now turned into adults and have come online. They love the dub because its what they grew up with.


And lastly, the dub showed noticeable improvement with every year FUNI worked on the show. The voice actors improved as well. Its actually amazing how much different Chris Sabat's Vegeta is now than even Cell and Buu saga Vegeta. Its crazy.

[Soppa Saia People]

"snip"

Didn't Schemmel call the ocean dub music "crappy recycled mega man music" ? That doesn't seem so civil to me.

RE. The Patrolman
This isn't a sub and dub "war" this is someone asking a legitimate question about when did the dub became mainstream.

Oh I get it. Maybe when the internet became a well known thing to do. People started uploading of the dub version more and when Kai came around people rejected they already got a version of the series they wanted.

Okay, it seemed like you just based the topic off it title.

Idk why but I seriously got a pompous impression at the title of this thread, basically implying "why do people like what I hate" but thankfully in the actual post, that didn't seem to be the case.

Is it bad that I knew that you would post something like this.

[TheBlackPaladin]

"snip"

Didn't Schemmel call the ocean dub music "crappy recycled mega man music" ? That doesn't seem so civil to me.

Well, some clarification may be in order. I was talking about the actors, not necessarily what they've said about the dubs as a whole. Even in Schemmel's criticism of the Ocean dub, he made it clear that he had no beef with the performances or the actors (he has called them very talented on several occasions), his problem was just with the music. It may also be worth noting that it wasn't really an attack on the Ocean dub per say, it was more so an attack on music that he felt to be out of place (he has also said that he hated the Bruce Faulconer score from day 1). I would also add that I believe he was referring to the music that would be heard in the Ocean dub of Kai...

.....*Sigh*....the Ocean dub of Kai.....

Err, anyway. He has been civil towards the actors, as have all the other cast members (of both casts).

[Kakacarrottop]

Didn't Schemmel call the ocean dub music "crappy recycled mega man music" ? That doesn't seem so civil to me.

You are taking his comments out of context. He was quoted as saying this:

"Here is why the Ocean group dub will suck. And it has nothing to do with the actors as I have enormous respect for all of them. As far as I know, the Ocean group dub is going to have this really shitty music (some of which I have heard) and a whole host of added sound effects such as "doinks" and "boinks". We are giving you the purest DBZ experience possible."

Clearly he just has an issue with replacement soundtracks in general. No one from FUNimation has ever publicly attacked Ocean. The "FUNi vs Ocean" war is non-existent and was started by misinformed/immature Youtubers.

The only company FUNimation would realistically have "bad blood" with is Saban, due to their butchery of DBZ's first two seasons.