"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Michsi]

Wow, I first came across the recent Quote from Toriyama somewhere else on the net and my first reaction was to consider it fake. No way would he be so vocal about it. Imagine my surprise.

But I interpret the message a little differently than most here. I think Toriyama just wanted to convey how much he has come to care about DB to the point that would even complain about certain things, rather than criticism directed at TOEI.

[alakazam^]

Like other posters said, there's a lot of ways to interpret that sentence. His complaining could have been about Toei's decision on retelling the movies, for instance.

[SaiyaSith]

Like other posters said, there's a lot of ways to interpret that sentence. His complaining could have been about Toei's decision on retelling the movies, for instance.

He's most likely complaining about the animation quality, like most others.

[Noah]

I didn't like Froze colour scheme

[BlackCatScott]

I hadn't given too much thought into what Toriyama himself thought of Super. I guess if anything I may have been of the opinion that he's making some sort of earning off it so will sit on his thoughts regardless. For him to make a comment like that - and to mention it in the same breath as Dragon Ball Evolution, is quite remarkable. (Not that he's saying it's that bad, but he clearly isn't happy with it)

[TripleRach]

Damn the art quality of DBS is horrible, great to see he thinks so too.

I mean, lol. What a way to twist the man's words.

Let's not be condescending with our criticism.

[Nex Carnifex]

I didn't like Froze colour scheme

Your sig is foolish I'm 21 and still enjoy various shonen anime as if they were any other adult show take FMA or Naruto Shippuden. Dragon Ball Z had good serious moments drama storytelling and it was even scary at times when the enemies brutally murdered people or when Vegeta became Majin Vegeta it was intense as hell. I can still say super is too soft compared to dbz of old and other old and recent shonen anime/manga to say I grew out of dragon ball is a fallacy because it's just as much for kids as the other shows I still watch and I can judge them all the same in that regard.

[successoroffate]

I'm a little confused, So TOEI released an interview in the 30 year special Magazine which contains a statement from the author basically legitimating the "Common" dislike for Super? It feels a little off if you asked me. However, given that it has been confirmed, it feels good to have Toriyama still attached to the franchise even if he didn't want to in the first place.
Another thing, hating Evolution makes sense in the beginning, but if he didn't want the franchise to get an awful American live action movie, then he should have stopped it by telling TOEI don't sell the rights to it and say "Let's do it ourselves."

[JulieYBM]

I'm a little confused, So TOEI released an interview in the 30 year special Magazine which contains a statement from the author basically legitimating the "Common" dislike for Super? It feels a little off if you asked me. However, given that it has been confirmed, it feels good to have Toriyama still attached to the franchise even if he didn't want to in the first place.
Another thing, hating Evolution makes sense in the beginning, but if he didn't want the franchise to get an awful American live action movie, then he should have stopped it by telling TOEI don't sell the rights to it and say "Let's do it ourselves."

It's not an interview and the book was not published by Toei Animation. It was published by Shueisha.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

Toriyama is clearly unhappy with Super in some way, otherwise he would not have said so, but adding a few italics does make it more about himself: "First I hated the live action movie, then I rewrote Battle of Gods, now I'm complaining about the new TV series! Seems I've gotten attached!"

[jjgp1112]

The whole unsatisfied perfectionist thing was my immediate takeaway from Toriyama's quote. It seems like people are just so eager to have their own opinions validated that they didn't even consider anything other than "TORIYAMA THINKS SUPER SUCKS TOO, YOU GUYS!"

[fadeddreams5]

There's nothing positive at all about Super, so it wouldn't be a surprise if he did think it was shit.

[Gyt Kaliba]

There's nothing positive at all about Super, so it wouldn't be a surprise if he did think it was shit.

We get it. We got it the first 5,000 times. You find absolutely nothing of worth in Super.

So for kami's sake, why don't you just not follow stuff on it and save yourself and us both a headache? Jeebus.

[Araki]

I'm a little confused, So TOEI released an interview in the 30 year special Magazine which contains a statement from the author basically legitimating the "Common" dislike for Super? It feels a little off if you asked me.

The book was published by Shueisha - which is one of the main powers behind the anime, so your point is valid anyway. You're also right by thinking something sounds off, and that's simply because Toriyama didn't "legitimize" anything, that's just people twisting it as they seem fit.

The whole unsatisfied perfectionist thing was my immediate takeaway from Toriyama's quote. It seems like people are just so eager to have their own opinions validated that they didn't even consider anything other than "TORIYAMA THINKS SUPER SUCKS TOO, YOU GUYS!"

Yeah, i said more or less the same thing a few pages back. Some people are projecting their own thoughts on a vague statement. Which becomes pretty bad when you see youtube videos trying to force their own views upon others.

I think those people forget Toriyama is heavily involved with Super, like it or not, so of course he would act like that, the same way he did with BoG or his own manga back then. He could never say "oh no, they're ruining my DB!" because he IS part of the project, and when one remembers that, what he said makes a lot more sense.

[Faustus]

While I'll reserve complete judgment for now until Herms or kei17 or someone else rears their Japanese-proficient brain case either to confirm or to deny, and while it's certainly true that folks -- and perhaps critics especially -- always enjoy having their long-held opinions vindicated in an official capacity, I'll say for the moment that Cipher's interpretation of the wording of the original Japanese as unusually "brazen" and EmmaWinters' analysis here of his comment as a possible breach of business etiquette in Japan incline me more to believe that Toriyama's issues with the series, whatever they may be, are rather serious.

Add to that kei17's suggestion earlier that Toriyama may not be quite so intimately involved with the series as many here would have it, together with the fact that his (Toriyama's) remark lumps Super in specifically with Evolution and the original Watanabe script for BoG -- one he felt compelled to publicly disparage and the other he felt required his intervention and a total overhaul / thorough re-write -- and there you have it; for whatever reason Toriyama is displeased with the show's quality, and not just in the trivial, nitpicking, jesting and humorously self-aware uberperfectionist sense you're restricting him to -- but genuinely so. At least that's my take on it.

[Noah]

Your sig is foolish I'm 21 and still enjoy various shonen anime as if they were any other adult show take FMA or Naruto Shippuden. Dragon Ball Z had good serious moments drama storytelling and it was even scary at times when the enemies brutally murdered people or when Vegeta became Majin Vegeta it was intense as hell. I can still say super is too soft compared to dbz of old and other old and recent shonen anime/manga to say I grew out of dragon ball is a fallacy because it's just as much for kids as the other shows I still watch and I can judge them all the same in that regard.

Wow, I lost the count about people commenting my signature. I mean you don't really need to take it so seriously, It's not a criticism to the series, but to those that still think that we'll get a mature story with serious plot elements and depth in Super just because we grow up with less tolerance for silly things

[Hellspawn28]

Chris Ayres post this on ask.fm. Sorry if this has been posted already: https://ask.fm/chrisayresva/answers/133461334583

[Cipher]

I'll say for the moment that Cipher's interpretation of the wording of the original Japanese as unusually "brazen" and EmmaWinters' analysis here of his comment as a possible breach of business etiquette in Japan incline me more to believe that Toriyama's issues with the series, whatever they may be, are rather serious.

Add to that kei17's suggestion earlier that Toriyama may not be quite so intimately involved with the series as many here would have it, together with the fact that his (Toriyama's) remark lumps Super in specifically with Evolution and the original Watanabe script for BoG -- one he felt compelled to publicly disparage and the other he felt required his intervention and a total overhaul / thorough re-write -- and there you have it; for whatever reason Toriyama is displeased with the show's quality, and not just in the trivial, nitpicking, jesting and humorously self-aware uberperfectionist sense you're restricting him to -- but genuinely so. At least that's my take on it.

I should clarify that my level of Japanese is intermediate at best. There may be some connotative range there that I'm missing. But that phrase is very distinctly "make a complaint/complain about," in a sense of voicing some real problem. It's the same noun/verb combo that would signify registering a formal complaint (though it can also be a much more casual).

Either way, though, it's not something you'd add to a statement like this without it feeling a little bold or knowing people will read into it. And as you pointed out, the context here says quite a bit. This isn't a list of things he's done for the franchise since new material started coming out ("I wrote a script for a new movie! I'm helping design a new story arc," etc.). It's very specifically the third entry in a list of moments he's stepped in or felt displeased, as a way of showing he cares for the material in a way he didn't before. None of it seems like the wording for playful, perfectionist nitpicks. Not with its context in that sentence.

It's still rather Japanese -- vague and polite. But I don't see how anybody could write or read that and not think twice about how it would be received upon being published. It's kind of shocking, really. The more I think about it, the more the implication seems that he really does take issue with it on some level.

So, like, holy shit.

[Chuquita]

If it has to do with the animation; I wonder if the displeasure would be at how Super looks on its own, or if it has to do with how Super looks in comparison to Toei's other concurrently running animated shows (like a "here's how good a job Toei can do, and here's what Super looks like" kind of thing).

[Cipher]

If it has to do with the animation; I wonder if the displeasure would be at how Super looks on its own, or if it has to do with how Super looks in comparison to Toei's other concurrently running animated shows (like a "here's how good a job Toei can do, and here's what Super looks like" kind of thing).

The latter seems more justified.

The Reddit thread Faustus linked to above contains a Twitter quote from an upcoming animator:

"Dragon ______, where I'm working at the moment, is beyond help. The animation director can only check the layout for the next 10 days. No matter what, the quality can't be guaranteed. Who messed the schedule up, and when?"

So it does seem unusually troubled. That could also help explain my complaint with the series -- that much more so than the animation being stiff, or characters off-model, it just feels blandly and sloppily directed. Looks like there's a lack of time from square one.