Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Bullza]

Was the line about if Goku and Vegeta teamed up they'd be able to fight on par with Beerus said in Super? I don't recall it being said.

In the newest chapter of Super Beerus makes Monaca go last because "he's the strongest" so he's at least stronger than the SSJB Goku and Vegeta that fought Frieza.

I'd guess that Monaca was somewhere between Champa and Frieza.

[Lord Frieza]

From the brief fights they have had in the anime and manga its seems that (to me at least) Beerus and Champa are or almost on equal footing in terms of power. The difference is that Champa is lazy and has a bad diet so he has less stamina.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Why does it matter if he has God Ki at that point though? He has the power of a Super Saiyan God and he can sense God Ki already. What is there to gain by still becoming a Super Saiyan God unless it makes him stronger?

He uses Super Saiyan while as a God to become a Super Saiyan Blue but he could just turn into a Super Saiyan and get stronger anyway without having to become a God.

But his ki could still be sensed in his base & SS forms, while his ki can't be sensed in his SSG & SSB forms. SSB also makes him stronger than SSG & SS do.

Super Saiyan God - Huge increase, plus godly ki
Base (with the power of Super Saiyan God) - Somewhere close to SSG, no godly ki
Super Saiyan (with the power of Super Saiyan God) - As strong as SSG, no godly ki
SSB - Stronger than SSG, plus godly ki


Goku & Vegeta can sense godly ki in their base form only because they have gotten strong enough to do it according to Whis, not because they also have godly ki. This would explain why Goku & co. could sense the ki of other gods like Dende & Kaio in the manga.

[apex_pretador]

It seems like champa & beerus have a bigger gap than previously thought. Champa said beerus could kill him, & beerus lololololol'd at the thought of champa fighting him.

[SansrivaaL]

So can Goku and Vegeta control their God Ki to the point that Beerus couldnt sense them? Beerus couldnt find them lol, this is probably just a gag part tho.

[MajinVegetaPD]

Was the line about if Goku and Vegeta teamed up they'd be able to fight on par with Beerus said in Super? I don't recall it being said.

In the newest chapter of Super Beerus makes Monaca go last because "he's the strongest" so he's at least stronger than the SSJB Goku and Vegeta that fought Freeza.

I'd guess that Monaca was somewhere between Champa and Freeza.

That is the assumption Beerus is under based on what he saw from Goku and Vegeta vs Freeza or when he fought Goku himself I'm assuming. We don't know how strong they are now after training in the ROSAT for 3 years.

[apex_pretador]

Was the line about if Goku and Vegeta teamed up they'd be able to fight on par with Beerus said in Super? I don't recall it being said.

In the newest chapter of Super Beerus makes Monaca go last because "he's the strongest" so he's at least stronger than the SSJB Goku and Vegeta that fought Freeza.

I'd guess that Monaca was somewhere between Champa and Freeza.

I heavily believe this plan backfires.

[Bullza]

Base (with the power of Super Saiyan God) - Somewhere close to SSG, no godly ki
Super Saiyan (with the power of Super Saiyan God) - As strong as SSG, no godly ki

But is Base form was close to SSJG in the BoG arc, with the 5 or so months of training and then the time they spent in Whis' realm they were supposed to have got a lot stronger.

They should be above SSJG at that point. If they went Super Saiyan he should be ahead of SSJG by a good bit.

[Pannaliciour]

3 years in Rosat is way to much. Maybe Goku and Vegeta doesnt increase that much anymore or Akira wants us to be suprised.

Goku and Vegeta has to be at Beerus level (assuming Beerus didn't train) at minimum or something is very wrong. I think Goku and Vegeta has discoverd something in the Rosat, a new transformation.

[MajinVegetaPD]

3 years in Rosat is way to much. Maybe Goku and Vegeta doesnt increase that much anymore or Akira wants us to be suprised.

Goku and Vegeta has to be at Beerus level (assuming Beerus didn't train) at minimum or something is very wrong. I think Goku and Vegeta has discoverd something in the Rosat, a new transformation.

3 years IS pretty excessive for training. If they are not at Beerus level, at the minimum they have to be slightly above Monaka level or somewhat equal to Champa.

Wouldn't be surprised if the narrative of the tournament goes one of two ways:

1. All the fighters from Universe 6 get absolutely curb stomped by Goku and Vegeta only to discover Vados/Champa have some ulterior motive and end up being the (evil) antagonists.

2. Universe 7 loses 4 matches, but wait, a mystery 5th contestant who goes by the name of Gogeta!

[LightBing]

Did I miss something? Why do Goku and Vegeta have to become significantly stronger? They may very well go from 7 to 7.5. Or something like that, I don't see any proof that supports a minimal gain for them.

It would be nice if the humongous power gains stop, now that we've reached this huge plateau. Beerus was been around for millions of years, yet he's only a 10. The gains at this level must be hard, like a sprinter trying to improve his time. Once you reach a certain point it gets very difficult.

[Helios518]

Why did Goku and Vegeta train with SSGSS in the Rosat when Whis earlier said that training in base would be more efficient?

[Hugo Boss]

Perhaps they are thinking about stamina this time. Training in base will only increase their power rapidly.

[Retan]

Why did Goku and Vegeta train with SSGSS in the Rosat when Whis earlier said that training in base would be more efficient?

3 years is a long time and maybe they just wanted to clobber each other? Or at least see where they stood, at full power?

[ChaosLordBrandon]

Did I miss something? Why do Goku and Vegeta have to become significantly stronger? They may very well go from 7 to 7.5. Or something like that, I don't see any proof that supports a minimal gain for them.

It would be nice if the humongous power gains stop, now that we've reached this huge plateau. Beerus was been around for millions of years, yet he's only a 10. The gains at this level must be hard, like a sprinter trying to improve his time. Once you reach a certain point it gets very difficult.

This. Do people think for some strange reason that Goku and Vegeta are gonna surpassed Beerus and be Whis level that fast when in it's made clear that the nipple guy is the strongest on team by Beerus,Manga and Anime.

[Skar]

Did I miss something? Why do Goku and Vegeta have to become significantly stronger? They may very well go from 7 to 7.5. Or something like that, I don't see any proof that supports a minimal gain for them.

It would be nice if the humongous power gains stop, now that we've reached this huge plateau. Beerus was been around for millions of years, yet he's only a 10. The gains at this level must be hard, like a sprinter trying to improve his time. Once you reach a certain point it gets very difficult.

I agree and technically they could still receive huge gains but it wouldn't appear that way due to how powerful they are now. I think one misconception is that training multiplies their power. We only say that "this character became X times stronger" when we compare their ending power to their power at the beginning. For example, when Goku went from 400 to 8000 during his training with King Kai, he didn't just train and then suddenly power-up to 8000. He started at ~400 and improved every day until he was at 8000 by the end so it's really a gain of +7600. His PL was so low at the time that a gain of +7600 made him 20x stronger than before. If his PL was for example 100,000 then the same +7600 would barely be an 8% increase.

SSJ God is supposed to be unfathomably stronger than anything we've seen in the manga considering Goku was capable of destroying most of the universe. If Goku's PL was like 100 trillion or something then even a 1% increase would still be a gain of +1 trillion which is likely more than any other training gains he received before. It's just that his power level is so high that it takes even more work to have a noticeable difference.

[SansrivaaL]

Did I miss something? Why do Goku and Vegeta have to become significantly stronger? They may very well go from 7 to 7.5. Or something like that, I don't see any proof that supports a minimal gain for them.

It would be nice if the humongous power gains stop, now that we've reached this huge plateau. Beerus was been around for millions of years, yet he's only a 10. The gains at this level must be hard, like a sprinter trying to improve his time. Once you reach a certain point it gets very difficult.

This. Do people think for some strange reason that Goku and Vegeta are gonna surpassed Beerus and be Whis level that fast when in it's made clear that the nipple guy is the strongest on team by Beerus,Manga and Anime.

Not that hard to believe, Akira Toriyama said so himself that the saiyans may turn the tables on them, its possible that both Goku and Vegeta are just hiding their max God ki, latest ep Beerus couldnt even find them.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

But is Base form was close to SSJG in the BoG arc, with the 5 or so months of training and then the time they spent in Whis' realm they were supposed to have got a lot stronger.

I'm talking about base Goku in BoG arc.

[NickMamba]

I haven't been following this thread, I've seen it debated elsewhere, who is stronger, Goku or Vegeta? Imo, Vegeta had the slight edge on Goku up until the end of RoF arc. I believe this because Beerus said SSJ2 Vegeta put up a better fight against him than SSJ3 Goku. And then he trained himself after their fight with Beerus and had a large enough power increase for Whis to point out, meanwhile Goku was not training. Then the 6 months spent training with Whis before Goku came, and Vegeta would train while Goku would sleep. The episode they are training with Whis Goku could not even stand up while Vegeta seemed ready for more. All that being said, I believe Goku is now on par or stronger than Vegeta. One thing I haven't seen noted anywhere that I think is just being overlooked, is one of the Saiyan traits. When recovering from a battle that takes them to the brink of death, their power increases immensely. As Vegeta stated and showed during the Freeza saga. If Goku and Vegeta are close to the same strength or Vegeta being stronger before the Golden Freeza fight, shouldn't Goku's near death/recovery have closed the gap and more than likely surpassed it? Also worth noting, Gohan too should have received a significant power increase from his as well, however still not putting him back to Buu saga or Mystic strength.

[Pannaliciour]

Did I miss something? Why do Goku and Vegeta have to become significantly stronger? They may very well go from 7 to 7.5. Or something like that, I don't see any proof that supports a minimal gain for them.

It would be nice if the humongous power gains stop, now that we've reached this huge plateau. Beerus was been around for millions of years, yet he's only a 10. The gains at this level must be hard, like a sprinter trying to improve his time. Once you reach a certain point it gets very difficult.

This. Do people think for some strange reason that Goku and Vegeta are gonna surpassed Beerus and be Whis level that fast when in it's made clear that the nipple guy is the strongest on team by Beerus,Manga and Anime.

Not that hard to believe, Akira Toriyama said so himself that the saiyans may turn the tables on them, its possible that both Goku and Vegeta are just hiding their max God ki, latest ep Beerus couldnt even find them.

Haha the succes of Dragon Ball (Z)is that you need to get stronger as fast as possibly. If you take that away you literally have no story.