Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Noah]

For me all this plot of having Goku and Vegeta training straight for 3 years is a lazy concept IMO and yet they'll not surpass Beerus? I hope they get stronger than Monaca at least (as said earlier in this thread)

I wonder how long will take for them surpass Whis/Vados, though

[TheDBZmaster100]

It would be better if Goku simply does not surpass both Beerus/Champa and Whis/Vados.

[Noah]

It would be better if Goku simply does not surpass both Beerus/Champa and Whis/Vados.

I don't see that happening, but it would be a big surprise, actually.

Toriyama said in interview that he plans Goku to get much stronger than before, thus indicating that he might surpass Whis/Vados someday

[Khin]

I had doubts on Champa,Beerus laughs at the idea of him and Champa fighting,he could be weaker than we thought.

[MajinVegetaPD]

Did I miss something? Why do Goku and Vegeta have to become significantly stronger? They may very well go from 7 to 7.5. Or something like that, I don't see any proof that supports a minimal gain for them.

It would be nice if the humongous power gains stop, now that we've reached this huge plateau. Beerus was been around for millions of years, yet he's only a 10. The gains at this level must be hard, like a sprinter trying to improve his time. Once you reach a certain point it gets very difficult.

This. Do people think for some strange reason that Goku and Vegeta are gonna surpassed Beerus and be Whis level that fast when in it's made clear that the nipple guy is the strongest on team by Beerus,Manga and Anime.

Has everyone been watching the same series as me for the past 20 years? The whole premise of the manga/anime is getting stronger and overcoming limits. I would be more surprised if Goku and Vegeta didn't catch up to Beerus sooner then later.

[LightBing]

Did I miss something? Why do Goku and Vegeta have to become significantly stronger? They may very well go from 7 to 7.5. Or something like that, I don't see any proof that supports a minimal gain for them.

It would be nice if the humongous power gains stop, now that we've reached this huge plateau. Beerus was been around for millions of years, yet he's only a 10. The gains at this level must be hard, like a sprinter trying to improve his time. Once you reach a certain point it gets very difficult.

This. Do people think for some strange reason that Goku and Vegeta are gonna surpassed Beerus and be Whis level that fast when in it's made clear that the nipple guy is the strongest on team by Beerus,Manga and Anime.

Has everyone been watching the same series as me for the past 20 years? The whole premise of the manga/anime is getting stronger and overcoming limits. I would be more surprised if Goku and Vegeta didn't catch up to Beerus sooner then later.

The characters, mostly Goku are always losing and one step behind. For example, Goku only won the Tenkaichi Budokai on his third attempt.
I'm not saying Goku and Vegeta won't get stronger than Beerus, just not on this arc. Story wise it wouldn't be viable because of the status quo of the Inter-Universe Tournament.
Goku beating everybody would be boring, it would also make Beerus and Champa non-threats, when their danger and importance has been highlighted.

What I'm mostly talking back to are those opinions that make it seem there's a power gain formula, just because they trained three years on the RoSaT.

[Neon Z]

For me all this plot of having Goku and Vegeta training straight for 3 years is a lazy concept IMO and yet they'll not surpass Beerus? I hope they get stronger than Monaca at least (as said earlier in this thread)

I wonder how long will take for them surpass Whis/Vados, though

You're talking like they're all on the same level though. The fact that Champa is being set up as weaker than Beerus might even suggest that Goku could surpass him and still stay bellow Beerus for a while longer.

[GodVegetto91]

So do we all agree on Champa>Monaca?

It would be something like this imo.

Monaka: 9
Champa: 9.5
Beerus: 10

Champa was implied to be weaker than Beerus. And yes i know that Beerus laughed his ass of on the idea of fighting Champa. But i still don't think their gap is that big at all. They should be pretty close in terms of power. I mean we shouldn't forget the fact that Champa is very fat. And as episode 28 revealed he has a pretty low stamina and condition. (And probably a whole lot slower too) Leading Beerus to automatically have the advantage over Champa while also being a "tiny bit" stronger..

What do you guys think?

[MajinVegetaPD]

So do we all agree on Champa>Monaca?

It would be something like this imo.

Monaka: 9
Champa: 9.5
Beerus: 10

Champa was implied to be weaker than Beerus. And yes i know that Beerus laughed his ass of on the idea of fighting Champa. But i still don't think their gap is that big at all. They should be pretty close in terms of power. I mean we shouldn't forget the fact that Champa is very fat. And as episode 28 revealed he has a pretty low stamina and condition. (And probably a whole lot slower too) Leading Beerus to automatically have the advantage over Champa while also being a "tiny bit" stronger..

What do you guys think?

I think after the tournament this is more reasonable to assume:

Beerus: 10
Champa: 9
Goku/Vegeta: 8.5
Monaka: 8

I don't buy for one second that after 3 years of training in the ROSAT that Goku and Vegeta will not prove to be the strongest fighters in the tournament. Beerus/Whis/Champa/Vados have not seen what they can do, and I am not even sure if they are aware of the training they did together in the ROSAT.

[Khin]

So do we all agree on Champa>Monaca?

It would be something like this imo.

Monaka: 9
Champa: 9.5
Beerus: 10

Champa was implied to be weaker than Beerus. And yes i know that Beerus laughed his ass of on the idea of fighting Champa. But i still don't think their gap is that big at all. They should be pretty close in terms of power. I mean we shouldn't forget the fact that Champa is very fat. And as episode 28 revealed he has a pretty low stamina and condition. (And probably a whole lot slower too) Leading Beerus to automatically have the advantage over Champa while also being a "tiny bit" stronger..

What do you guys think?

Beerus - 10

Champa - Anywhere from 5 to 9.8 (Beerus loled at the idea of him and Champa fighting)

Monaka - 9.3 (Whis stated that Monaka can give Beerus trouble if he gets serious,the two should be very close to each other)

Goku/Vegeta (Post ROSAT) - 9.0

[LongLostSaiyan]

So do we all agree on Champa>Monaca?

It would be something like this imo.

Monaka: 9
Champa: 9.5
Beerus: 10

Champa was implied to be weaker than Beerus. And yes i know that Beerus laughed his ass of on the idea of fighting Champa. But i still don't think their gap is that big at all. They should be pretty close in terms of power. I mean we shouldn't forget the fact that Champa is very fat. And as episode 28 revealed he has a pretty low stamina and condition. (And probably a whole lot slower too) Leading Beerus to automatically have the advantage over Champa while also being a "tiny bit" stronger..

What do you guys think?

Their gap isn't that big, when we saw them fight/spar they seemed pretty equal to me.. They would be equal but Champa being fat gives him the slight disadvantage, still though.. he could beat Beerus if he didn't let the fight drag to the point where he would lose stamina.

I wouldn't even put Champa at a 0.5 difference.. I can actually see Champa being the one that in terms of strength can punch a little harder then Beerus when he's raged.. but Beerus is definitely the one with more endurance. Also with Vados since she trained Whis she has to be stronger. So I would put it like this.

Vados - 17
Whis - 15
Beerus - 10
Champa - 9.85
Hit - 9.5
Monaka - 9.3
Cabba -9.2
Goku - 9
Vegeta - 9
Frost -8.9
Botamo - 6.8
Magetta - ?

also now that we are ranking this, I could put SSGSS Vegito but that wouldn't happen again as there are no potara earrings left and Goku and Vegeta don't want to be stuck like that forever. If they did the fusion dance Gogeta SSGSS would be the same as Vados.

[Birusu16]

Vados - 15
Whis - 15
Beerus - 10
Champa - 9
Monaka - 8.5
Goku - 8
Vegeta - 8

Not even sure why I'm making this as I don't even put any stock into the 15/10/6 scale anymore.

[emperior]

Vados - 16
Whis - 15
Beerus - 10
Champa - 9.9
Goku/Vegeta - 9.5
Monaka - 9.4

[NickMamba]

So do we all agree on Champa>Monaca?

It would be something like this imo.

Monaka: 9
Champa: 9.5
Beerus: 10

Champa was implied to be weaker than Beerus. And yes i know that Beerus laughed his ass of on the idea of fighting Champa. But i still don't think their gap is that big at all. They should be pretty close in terms of power. I mean we shouldn't forget the fact that Champa is very fat. And as episode 28 revealed he has a pretty low stamina and condition. (And probably a whole lot slower too) Leading Beerus to automatically have the advantage over Champa while also being a "tiny bit" stronger..

What do you guys think?

Their gap isn't that big, when we saw them fight/spar they seemed pretty equal to me.. They would be equal but Champa being fat gives him the slight disadvantage, still though.. he could beat Beerus if he didn't let the fight drag to the point where he would lose stamina.

I wouldn't even put Champa at a 0.5 difference.. I can actually see Champa being the one that in terms of strength can punch a little harder then Beerus when he's raged.. but Beerus is definitely the one with more endurance. Also with Vados since she trained Whis she has to be stronger. So I would put it like this.

Vados - 17
Whis - 15
Beerus - 10
Champa - 9.85
Hit - 9.5
Monaka - 9.3
Cabba -9.2
Goku - 9
Vegeta - 9
Frost -8.9
Botamo - 6.8
Magetta - ?

also now that we are ranking this, I could put SSGSS Vegito but that wouldn't happen again as there are no potara earrings left and Goku and Vegeta don't want to be stuck like that forever. If they did the fusion dance Gogeta SSGSS would be the same as Vados.

The U6 Kais have portara

[LightBing]

You guys sure like to shoot in the dark.
What evidence is there to Goku, Vegeta and every other contestant of the tournament, besides Monaka? Goku's little display doesn't tell us anything, since we don't know how strong Botamo is.

[apex_pretador]

So in the 1-15 scale :

Vados - 15.1
Whis - 15
Beerus - 10
Champa - 9.6
Monaka - 9.0
Vegeta / goku (SSB) - 8.6
Gold freeza - 8.5
SSB (initial) - 8
SBG - 4
SSG - 4
Sorbet's ring - 3.99

[Skar]

Wouldn't base Goku and Vegeta have to be at least a 5 on that scale? Whis said they might be able to defeat Beerus if they worked together but that was before they introduced SSJ Blue. I'm assuming their combined power has to be at least greater than Beerus to stand a chance against him together. Is there anything that implies RoF base Goku is weaker than BoG SSJ God?

[Birusu16]

Wouldn't base Goku and Vegeta have to be at least a 5 on that scale? Whis said they might be able to defeat Beerus if they worked together but that was before they introduced SSJ Blue. I'm assuming their combined power has to be at least greater than Beerus to stand a chance against him together. Is there anything that implies RoF base Goku is weaker than BoG SSJ God?

No. That statement was only in the movie and nothing suggests they didn't have SSJB when that statement was made. Not to mention two fighters working together doesn't double their strength. I'm not sure where you got that from.

[Skar]

No. That statement was only in the movie and nothing suggests they didn't have SSJB when that statement was made. Not to mention two fighters working together doesn't double their strength. I'm not sure where you got that from.

When did I say it would double their strength? I'm saying that if Beerus is a 10 then I'm assuming, in order for two fighters to stand a chance against him together, their total power has to be at least equal to his. It's not like Goku and Piccolo vs Raditz where they were relying on a concentrated technique like the Special Beam Cannon in order to overpower Raditz. Beerus is more skilled than Raditz so he's not going to toy with them and give them enough time to charge an attack. In episode 21, Beerus said that Goku was stronger than before. SSJB wasn't revealed at the time and it didn't seem like Beerus knew about it yet. Is there any evidence that suggests RoF base Goku was weaker than SSJ God from BoG?

[Bullza]

Is there any evidence that suggests RoF base Goku was weaker than SSJ God from BoG?

I don't know if it's evidence but there's some questionable things to me.

- Whis comparing Goku and Vegeta's power to Beerus as being like a small tree and Beerus' Temple.

- SSJG being a power level Goku couldn't reach on his own but Vegeta reaches it only 6 months.

- Beerus' sneeze blast being enough to kill Goku and Vegeta when SSJG Goku seemed to take on worse but was able to keep fighting.

- If base Goku was as stronger or stronger than SSJG then why was nobody watching making a comment on the ridiculous amount of power that Goku had?

- Goku training to be able to turn into a SSJG on his own seems pointless when he already has the power of a SSJG supposedly.

- If base Goku = SSJG Goku then the pitiful boost that SSJB seems to give which is not how it's made out to be at all.

- Only when Goku turns into a SSJB does he mention being a SSJG and having the power of a SSJG and then people like Krillin only then commenting about him getting stronger and stronger.

- At least going by the Super version are we really supposed to believe that Sorbets ring laser would have done that much damage to SSJG Goku if he were able to be impaled by Beerus and still continue?

- There should have been no need for Vegeta to turn into a SSJB to fight Golden Frieza. It implies the weakened Frieza who couldn't even hurt SSJB was still somehow stronger than SSJG Goku.

- The numbers don't fit at all.