"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Araki]

I don't think he's gonna be excluded from the start...he wouldn't be in the poster otherwise.

What i think can be pretty different is that it seems Goku will talk to Gohan, and maybe Gohan will decline.

[JulieYBM]

I'm guessing Toyo-tarou wrote his comic to exclude the fact that Gohan will be participating as a way to let the animated series build its character arc without spoiling the surprise.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Knowing how these things have been written in the past, I think the "but" will just be something along the lines running into Kuririn and the others (as already suggested) or Buu not being home at first. Maybe they're at Gohan's instead and after asking Buu they learn Gohan is out training with Piccolo or whatever. Goku might ask Gohan, who might still have the conference that day and so he turns to Piccolo for the last spot or whatever.. I dunno. Buu could be a red herring for Gohan, I guess, but the Majin isn't going to be passed over from the very beginning. That feels like too much effort for a marketing misdirect if he's excluded before they even reach the tournament grounds and take the test.

[Chuquita]

Goku and Vegeta go find the other team members. They first go invite Majin Boo but...

Kuririn thinks they want to have a picnic in the great Universe but then Goku tells him the real reason and so he ends up helping them find the other members.

Is "great universe" a place or is it Kuririn misunderstanding a word?

The idea of Gokû and Vegeta planning a picnic is great though. XD Now I wish that actually would happen .

[Skar]

EDIT 2: Toei is printing money on DB this year and it's still 3 months left in fiscal year

I really hope these good numbers will influence their budget for Super. I think that might be unlikely though. As fans, the only way these numbers affect us is if they improve the quality of the show we're watching.

[Lord Beerus]

EDIT 2: Toei is printing money on DB this year and it's still 3 months left in fiscal year

I really hope these good numbers will influence their budget for Super. I think that might be unlikely though. As fans, the only way these numbers affect us is if they improve the quality of the show we're watching.

The budget has not been the issue with Super. It's all down to planning and scheduling.

[Skar]

EDIT 2: Toei is printing money on DB this year and it's still 3 months left in fiscal year

I really hope these good numbers will influence their budget for Super. I think that might be unlikely though. As fans, the only way these numbers affect us is if they improve the quality of the show we're watching.

The budget has not been the issue with Super. It's all down to planning and scheduling.

Wouldn't the budget influence planning and scheduling? Higher budget could allow them to attract more animators or a larger team to work on the show. Toei only has five currently running animes and DBZ and One Piece generated the highest revenue. I'm curious where all the extra revenue for Dragonball Super goes? Does any of it go back into the anime's budget?

[JulieYBM]

The profits go back to the production committee members that invest the most money in the first place. Animation studios don't quite have the money to produce entire shows themselves so they work with other companies that can afford it. Even what money Toei Animation does get back has to go into maintaining the studio, the equipment and taxes.

Rookie key animators make about 4,000 JP yen per cut. Pay obviously goes up with seniority and skill, but the difference typically isn't a big deal. You never hear of animators being 'too expensive' to hire in Japan. Some freelancers might not even work on a by-cut basis, but a monthly gross contract where the animator promises to only work on projects for that studio for a month.

Dragon Ball Super has not a budget problem, but a scheduling and manpower problem that are symptoms of poor planning and staff with either few contacts amongst freelancers or little willingness to go the extra mile. There could also be other behind-the-scenes politics getting in the way we don't know about. After all, we do know there are some who hate Yamamuro's character designs or were publically displeased with his actions during production on Fukkatsu no F. For all we know there could be active forces pushing against getting good unique staff, like Toma Seizou or Iseki Shuu'ichi, to come back. There's a lot at play here.

[Skar]

Dragon Ball Super has not a budget problem, but a scheduling and manpower problem that are symptoms of poor planning and staff with either few contacts amongst freelancers or little willingness to go the extra mile.

I see thanks for shedding some light on that. Is there a source from toei explaining these issues? I'm just curious if this is directly from Toei or someone else within the industry. What I still don't understand is how budget has nothing to do with these other problems. In most companies, lack of manpower usually means the company can't afford to pay enough people. What is preventing Toei from getting enough contracts and what other animes are the animators working on that causes a scheduling conflict? For example, FMA and FMA: Brotherhood had consistent animation but I don't think either one generated revenue close to Dragonball. Did their studio have a more dedicated staff or a higher budget to keep the same animators?

[Basaku]

Dragon Ball Super has not a budget problem, but a scheduling and manpower problem that are symptoms of poor planning and staff with either few contacts amongst freelancers or little willingness to go the extra mile. There could also be other behind-the-scenes politics getting in the way we don't know about. After all, we do know there are some who hate Yamamuro's character designs or were publically displeased with his actions during production on Fukkatsu no F. For all we know there could be active forces pushing against getting good unique staff, like Toma Seizou or Iseki Shuu'ichi, to come back. There's a lot at play here.

And here's what solves most manpower issues:



When you have Japanese anime & manga industries treating the animators as expendable and replacable grunts that should be 'thankful' for getting awful pay, no wonder many ain't gonna be highly motivated. It's in Toei's interest to try and fix the industry.

[Lord Beerus]

Dragon Ball Super has not a budget problem, but a scheduling and manpower problem that are symptoms of poor planning and staff with either few contacts amongst freelancers or little willingness to go the extra mile.

I see thanks for shedding some light on that. Is there a source from toei explaining these issues? I'm just curious if this is directly from Toei or someone else within the industry. What I still don't understand is how budget has nothing to do with these other problems. In most companies, lack of manpower usually means the company can't afford to pay enough people. What is preventing Toei from getting enough contracts and what other animes are the animators working on that causes a scheduling conflict? For example, FMA and FMA: Brotherhood had consistent animation but I don't think either one generated revenue close to Dragonball. Did their studio have a more dedicated staff or a higher budget to keep the same animators?

FMA and FMA: Brotherhood just simply had a studio which properly planned the production of both animes and had several very talented animators at their disposal. Dragon Ball Super has neither of those.

[alakazam^]

Is "great universe" a place or is it Kuririn misunderstanding a word?

The idea of Gokû and Vegeta planning a picnic is great though. XD Now I wish that actually would happen .

It seems he's just misunderstanding what they are getting people for. Although "great Universe" is a atrange way to put it, I think it's really meant to be interpreted as him thinking about a picnic somewhere in the Universe.

Regarding Boo, maybe he's still asleep or wants something in return to enter the tournament.

[JulieYBM]

Dragon Ball Super has not a budget problem, but a scheduling and manpower problem that are symptoms of poor planning and staff with either few contacts amongst freelancers or little willingness to go the extra mile.

I see thanks for shedding some light on that. Is there a source from toei explaining these issues? I'm just curious if this is directly from Toei or someone else within the industry. What I still don't understand is how budget has nothing to do with these other problems. In most companies, lack of manpower usually means the company can't afford to pay enough people. What is preventing Toei from getting enough contracts and what other animes are the animators working on that causes a scheduling conflict? For example, FMA and FMA: Brotherhood had consistent animation but I don't think either one generated revenue close to Dragonball. Did their studio have a more dedicated staff or a higher budget to keep the same animators?

Nobody's outright explained this sort of thing. It's just general knowledge about how the industry works. The production can afford to hire staff, they simply cannot find staff to hire. If other studios are too busy to help or otherwise not interested then the production has to turn to freelancers that the directors, animation supervisors, producers or production assistants know. The industry literally exists based on who is friends or acquaintances with someone else. There's no directory of animators, it's just "hey, anybody know someone who can finish this shot by tonight?"

The second Hagane no Renkinjutsushi series had a good schedule, numerous animators and a plethora of drawings to use. Kameda Yoshimichi really developed into the genius he is today thanks to the conditions the series was created under. Tanaka Hironori was also in the middle of his rise to fame after finishing his tenure on PreCure and going freelance.

Bones is owned and operated by directors and animators, less so for Toei Animation which is not only owned by a large company with different priorities, but pretty much operated by business men. Toei Animation has a huge staff that it has to pay for (and a union), so it has to take on multiple projects. Bones is a bit smaller and doesn't aim for the lowest common denominator as much as Toei Animation does, so it's projects tend to be more focused toward Otaku.

[Skar]

FMA and FMA: Brotherhood just simply had a studio which properly planned the production of both animes and had several very talented animators at their disposal. Dragon Ball Super has neither of those.

Is there a source proving that FMA and Brotherhood simply had better planning and not a larger budget? If we're discussing actual numbers then we look to the financial reports to verify them. I'm not saying it's wrong but I would like to know where the information came from.

Nobody's outright explained this sort of thing. It's just general knowledge about how the industry works. The production can afford to hire staff, they simply cannot find staff to hire.

General knowledge about the industry might not apply to every studio though. If we're talking about the state of the movie industry in the US then the major studios wouldn't be in the same discussion as tiny studios with only a few dozen employees. I'm just wondering if there has been any information specifically about Toei and Dragonball Super.

Bones is owned and operated by directors and animators, less so for Toei Animation which is not only owned by a large company with different priorities, but pretty much operated by business men. Toei Animation has a huge staff that it has to pay for (and a union), so it has to take on multiple projects. Bones is a bit smaller and doesn't aim for the lowest common denominator as much as Toei Animation does, so it's projects tend to be more focused toward Otaku.

So it has more to do with the business men at Toei not wanting to dedicate enough resources for the show? It sounds like possibly dedicate more effort and time to DBS was just an option that they decided not to take and not that it was something beyond their control. Is there a way to find out how much staff Toei has compared to Bones? I could only find that Toei had 311 employees as of 2006 on Wikipedia but nothing for Bones. I want to see how much information about each company we can get to compare the two.

In the Fan Works section, there was a thread about Toriyama's complaint in the new History Book.

We have no idea if he even meant Super to begin with.

It's definitely Super. Kei confirmed that on Twitter, saying that he couldn't publicly reveal how he knew, but he'd known about this for a while now. He let me know the details privately, so I can at the very least say, as far as I'm concerned, it's true.

This comment confirms Toriyama was talking about Super but doesn't specific what about. Toriyama should be familiar with the anime industry by now so if he's complaining then it's probably about something that's within Toei's power to fix. If it's the animation and it's beyond Toei's control then I don't think he would blame them for it. It might not be the animation but I honestly can't think of what else he would complain about.

[JulieYBM]

Toei Animation is weird in how it can occasionally differ from other studios, but it's mostly no different than anyone else, it simply operates on a bigger level. Toei is probably the closest thing Japan has to a 'corporate-minded' studio, like Disney. Even Ghibli is run closer to an 'indie' studio in how it's pretty much just a bunch of artists running a studio, albeit one with a lot of power and visibility. Toei has branches all across the planet and is the animation arm of one of Japan's largest live action film and television producers. That's going to entail more business politics than, say, Bones or Studio Pierrot, although the latter is certainly a large company. Madhouse, too, is run by businessmen after it was bought out due to its original founders leading the studio to ruin.

[FortuneSSJ]

-Tournament fighters-

Buu being in the promo material and don't even fight is deceiving.
I don't care about him, but his fans have the right to be pissed if he ends up doing nothing, but gag.

Gohan sooner or later will come the frontlines and hopefully have his moment.
I still can't believe Toei will spoil us with Gohan/Piccolo training next week.
I don't expect Gohan to kill a main villain, but at least have his moment à lá Mystic Gohan vs Super Buu. Giving him SSB though would be the laziest way for a power up. He's the one with most potential, do something different with him.

I don't know what to think about Monaka. Looks are deceiving and Beerus is confident. So I hope he won't just be another gag character.
I'm curious about his role, both in tournament and afterwards.

[Skar]

Toei Animation is weird in how it can occasionally differ from other studios, but it's mostly no different than anyone else, it simply operates on a bigger level. Toei is probably the closest thing Japan has to a 'corporate-minded' studio, like Disney. Even Ghibli is run closer to an 'indie' studio in how it's pretty much just a bunch of artists running a studio, albeit one with a lot of power and visibility. Toei has branches all across the planet and is the animation arm of one of Japan's largest live action film and television producers. That's going to entail more business politics than, say, Bones or Studio Pierrot, although the latter is certainly a large company. Madhouse, too, is run by businessmen after it was bought out due to its original founders leading the studio to ruin.

Could you share where you got this information? I've seen general articles about the average animator or studio but I'm looking for something specific regarding Toei and Super. I completely understand if Toei is doing the best they can and this is all they can offer with the budget they have but you said that isn't the case here. If politics are an issue then that usually gets in the way of how they allocate capital and resources. As in they have enough to produce a better product but something within the company or management that's preventing them from doing it. If you're saying it only has to due with schedule and manpower then could you provide a source for that? You heard it from somewhere so I'm curious where you heard it from.

[JulieYBM]

Could you share where you got this information? I've seen general articles about the average animator or studio but I'm looking for something specific regarding Toei and Super. I completely understand if Toei is doing the best they can and this is all they can offer with the budget they have but you said that isn't the case here. If politics are an issue then that usually gets in the way of how they allocate capital and resources. As in they have enough to produce a better product but something within the company or management that's preventing them from doing it. If you're saying it only has to due with schedule and manpower then could you provide a source for that? You heard it from somewhere so I'm curious where you heard it from.

Like I said, we can only go off of what we know about the industry in general. Direct comments about Dragon Ball Super have only been that the schedule is bad.

Dragon Ball Super is a long-running series. It's not going to be a priority for a company that has other projects and ties it needs to maintain, especially when it's audience with neither buy the home videos nor expect the overall product to be high-quality.

[Noah]

You guys would like if somehow Gohan surpass both Goku and Vegeta, thus becoming a hotshot again?

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

You guys would like if somehow Gohan surpass both Goku and Vegeta, thus becoming a hotshot again?

If this requieres Gohan to go the God route then, no, I don't want him to become stronger.