"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[JulieYBM]

It's all based on facts, just not facts are more general industry and what we can tell from the credits.

[Skar]

It's all based on facts, just not facts are more general industry and what we can tell from the credits.

Then I would ask that you guys clarify when you're making an assumption based on industry-wide information and when you actually have evidence specific to Toei's situation. You claimed that the budget wasn't an issue at all but have not provided any sources for that claim. I was told that Toei receives funding from Bandai but I could not find a source for this either. I'm not sure where in the credits does this information appear. Kanzenshuu is known is as the most reliable site for all things Dragonball. The reason for this is because nothing is ever reported without a reputable source. I think it's fair as ask that we try to do the same on the forum and share where we obtained our information.

[JulieYBM]

Is it really likely that the Toei Animation is the one exception in the entire commercial Japanese animation industry works? Especially when we know even Ghibli works with other companies to fund their films? The insane number of Bandai products advertised during Dragon Ball Super should be obvious enough these cartoons exist to promote those merchandise.

[Basaku]

when in fact they're spending more money making anime and hiring people than any other studio

And being one of the biggest anime producers makes them directly co-responsible for getting the entire industry to the point it is at currently, with 'grunt' employees earning so little they have to take 82752 jobs and assignmenets at the same time to make a living, with new generation of animators coming in smaller and smaller numbers turned off by the ridiculous prospects of working in the industry Toei. It's just naive to think the whole issue boils down to 'passion' and the entire generation that grew up on DB and now works in the industry has zero interest in DB and the show would look crap no matter how much money Toei/Bandai/Shueisha poured in it. We don't need to look further than BOG/ROF. Even long-running anime series used to occasionally get on movie quality level back in the day, now it's almost unphantomable.

Is it really likely that the Toei Animation is the one exception in the entire commercial Japanese animation industry works? Especially when we know even Ghibli works with other companies to fund their films? The insane number of Bandai products advertised during Dragon Ball Super should be obvious enough these cartoons exist to promote those merchandise.

Is it really likely that Toei Corporation is one of the biggest, most powerful and influental anime & entertainment content producers in Japan and thus could pressure way more the push for quality of those "merchandise ads"? Yes it is really likely.

[Khin]

What i think can be pretty different is that it seems Goku will talk to Gohan, and maybe Gohan will decline.

Goku will ask him to join,but Gohan will decline because he have an important conference that day.

[Skar]

Is it really likely that the Toei Animation is the one exception in the entire commercial Japanese animation industry works? Especially when we know even Ghibli works with other companies to fund their films?

In any industry, looking at how the average company works doesn't give a clear picture of the top performing companies. If there are over 100 animes released ever year and none of them can generate the same revenue as DBS then it's obviously a different situation. I think it's fair to assume that the budget could possibly be a problem because, unless there's a breakdown of how much Toei spends on each anime, we literally have no way of knowing what the budget is.

The insane number of Bandai products advertised during Dragon Ball Super should be obvious enough these cartoons exist to promote those merchandise.

Bandai advertising products during DBS only tells us that Toei is associated with that company. I don't know how we can come to the conclusion that Bandai funds Toei or how much say Bandai has in DBS based on that association alone. The problem for me is that it was presented as a fact and not just an inference based on information about other companies. For example, Toei received about $600,000 in funding from the Japanese government for Battle of Gods. We know this not because we just looked at the credits for Battle of Gods and guessed a number but there are actual articles stating this amount.

[Hellspawn28]

People make a big deal about animation when you really need good writing. If the writing is good then you won't care about how bad the show can look at times. Same thing can be said for video games with graphics. Last week's episode had some animation that look off at times, but I didn't care because the story so far has been good. It kept me entertain. I know animated movies and shows with great animation and shit writing like Cars 2 for example. I still think people would have hated the retellings of BOG and ROF if they had better animation because the writing for the retellings did suck outside the slice of life episodes.

[Noah]

People make a big deal about animation when you really need good writing. If the writing is good then you won't care about how bad the show can look at times...

Are you talking for real? It doesn't matter if the plot is almost perfect if the animation steals the focus of the show, it has to be at least decent, DBS animation staff strives enough to reach this level, though.

[Kagari]

What i think can be pretty different is that it seems Goku will talk to Gohan, and maybe Gohan will decline.

Goku will ask him to join,but Gohan will decline because he have an important conference that day.

If the manga is anything to go by I think Goku will remain in the dark about Gohan's training.

[Hellspawn28]

People make a big deal about animation when you really need good writing. If the writing is good then you won't care about how bad the show can look at times...

Are you talking for real? It doesn't matter if the plot is almost perfect if the animation steals the focus of the show, it has to be at least decent, DBS animation staff strives enough to reach this level, though.

If graphics don't matter to video games and special effects don't matter to movies, won't the same be said to a TV show?

[dbzfan7]

Animation and story are both important. Story probably more so as without context, even good animation gets boring. A great story is gripping no matter what, while great animation loses it's luster if there is no substance beyond flash. Super has neither though. It's story isn't built up yet to anything gripping yet (Give it time maybe), and it's animation hasn't been up to snuff.

[ekrolo2]

Animation and story are both important. Story probably more so as without context, even good animation gets boring. A great story is gripping no matter what, while great animation loses it's luster if there is no substance beyond flash. Super has neither though. It's story isn't built up yet to anything gripping yet (Give it time maybe), and it's animation hasn't been up to snuff.

I'd say the stories main problem is the lack of urgency. It doesn't feel like there are any stakes or some kind of point to all this God stuff in sight. It just feels like the characters are doing stuff for the sake of doing stuff. Not that it's necessarily bad for the time being but some kind of villain or situation need to get introduced to give events some urgency. Maybe Beerus trying to go through with destroying Earth just to spite Champa after his team loses the tournament?

[Hellspawn28]

So far the Champa saga has been good. We have gotten:

1 - A official DB multiverse which is something that has not been done officially in the series.
2 - The origins on the original Dragon Balls
3 - We find out more info on the original Saiyan planet
4 - The U6 fighters seem to be new and different then what we got in the past like a good memory of Freeza's race, saiyans that use technology for good instead of evil and a robot alien fighter.

I think things are looking very good for the Champa arc and I hope they will stay that way for now.

[Chuquita]

Re: urgency

I do miss that sense of urgency from Z. While I do enjoy slice of life DB and the slice of life tension that comes with it, I still miss the sense of urgency.

Who knows, maybe the tournament gets disrupted and something exciting happens.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Given the current timeline placement of the series, I don't really care if there's a sense of urgency or tension. Honestly, I probably prefer the general tone we're getting instead. Since there's no real evidence that the end of the manga will be retconned, we know everything is going to turn well enough regardless of what happens because most/all the characters we care about are present and accounted for at the end of the story. Mileage may vary for the rest of y'all, but any attempt to make me concerned about the future of characters (like Piccolo's death in the Golden Freeza Arc) or anything is just going to fall flat. So I don't really even need them to try and phone it in.

[ParkerAL]

In an animated work, the story and animation are inseparable. If one suffers, the other suffers. Live action films and television visually tell their stories through the expressions and movements of actors, along with costumes, sets, and special effects. Animation replaces those key ingredients in shows like Dragon Ball Super.

If the quality of the animation isn't important for telling a story, that story should have been told in a different medium.

[FortuneSSJ]

Champa's arc is already beating any DBZ arc (beginning) writting so far.
Champa/Vados got foreshadowed since BOG arc, unlike DBZ where almost all the villains came from nowhere without any proper build up. Nappa/Vegeta can be the exception.
It may also take the trophy as best world building, but I need to see more.

[Noah]

Champa's arc is already beating any DBZ arc (beginning) writting so far.

I don't think so. Things feels lighthearted like Boo Arc beginning, but I miss the tension, the threat of something really big happening...

Champa/Vados got foreshadowed since BOG arc, unlike DBZ where almost all the villains came from nowhere without any proper build up. Nappa/Vegeta can be the exception.

Which villains?

[FortuneSSJ]

Champa/Vados got foreshadowed since BOG arc, unlike DBZ where almost all the villains came from nowhere without any proper build up. Nappa/Vegeta can be the exception.

Which villains?

Saiyans, Freeza, Cell and Buu all came from nowhere. They didn't get any build up before their debut and because of that we didn't know they existed, until they were revealed to be the arc villain.Toriyama just brought them from no where.

In other hand, Champa/Vados have been foreshadowed since Super episode 1/2. Champa arc was not their debut.

[ChaosLordBrandon]

All 12 gods of destruction have existed since episodes one of Super as well.