Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Hugo Boss]

Ok now tell me why Gohan should be weaker than both Goku and Vegeta by BoG arc.
And if you really want to take all the statements seriously, then 1st form Freezer is 1.3 milion. Meaning that Gohan and Piccolo are back to their Namek Saga power levels because they got wrecked by 1st form Freezer.
So I VERY much doubt that Goku's BoG statement. SSJ3 Vegito should be able to put up a decent enough fight with Beerus, so probably he meant Gogeta (so his added scene on BoG is worthless) and if I remember correctly, in Super he just said a generic "not even fusing with Vegeta would work"

If a character tells you something and there is nothing suggesting it's wrong, all you can do is like it or not. Vegeta acknowledges Goku as the strongest Saiyan and was not content in staying at second place forever. By consequence, Gohan, Trunks and Goten were weaker than Vegeta when he made that statement. In Battle of Gods' Arc, Goku and Vegeta were even stronger, while Gohan, Trunks and Goten remained the same. For the record, I don't remember Goku's statement in the added scenes of BoG being any different from the Super version you mentioned.

[DanielSSJ]

- As I've stated before, to avoid power levels sky rocketing I always assume the others knew Goku wasn't as its full power when powering up at Karin's tower.
- Yeah SS3 Goku is probably weaker than them by BoG arc. That statement of Goku is completely wrong in my opinion.

- They didn't know Goku was hiding more power. Except for Gohan, they were all surprised when Goku went all-out in the Cell Games.
- Goku and Vegeta are stronger than Gohan. We don't know about Gotenks. And what reason do you have to doubt Goku's statement?

Ok now tell me why Gohan should be weaker than both Goku and Vegeta by BoG arc.
And if you really want to take all the statements seriously, then 1st form Freezer is 1.3 milion. Meaning that Gohan and Piccolo are back to their Namek Saga power levels because they got wrecked by 1st form Freezer.
So I VERY much doubt that Goku's BoG statement. SSJ3 Vegito should be able to put up a decent enough fight with Beerus, so probably he meant Gogeta (so his added scene on BoG is worthless) and if I remember correctly, in Super he just said a generic "not even fusing with Vegeta would work"

The difference is that the fusion line was to establish Beerus' fearsome power and to cement his status as the strongest person(besides Whis) in the Dragon Ball Z universe. The 1.3 million line was most likely an error and was dropped when they adapted the movie into Dragon Ball Super. As far as the whole "Goku probably meant Gogeta, not Vegetto" arguement, Gogeta doesn't exist in this continuity. The only fusion Goku has taken part in is Potara, so it's more likely that he's talking about Vegetto.

On the flip side, I do agree that Goku didn't surpass Gohan until he got the God power up.

[emperior]

Well Goku didn't see Beerus as a totally evil being, maybe he was thinking about the fusion dance because he had no will to fuse forever with Vegeta. He knows how powerful the fusion dance is because he saw Gotenks' power.

And I think Vegeta didn't think about Gohan as he considered him retired/didn't consider him because he is an half-blooded Saiyan.

[Khin]

While i don't consider Vegeta's statement about Goku literally.There's no way SSj3 Vegetto will be touching even 1% Beerus.The gap between them is more than 10^50 times (At least based on feats).

[emperior]

While i don't consider Vegeta's statement about Goku literally.There's no way SSj3 Vegetto will be touching even 1% Beerus.The gap between them is more than 10^50 times (At least based on feats).

Beerus' feats are nothing impressive, people tend to forget we've had characters a lot faster than light ever since Namek saga and probably even in original Dragon Ball as the audience couldn't even see Roshi (Jackie Chun) vs Goku's battle.

[DanielSSJ]

While i don't consider Vegeta's statement about Goku literally.There's no way SSj3 Vegetto will be touching even 1% Beerus.The gap between them is more than 10^50 times (At least based on feats).

Beerus' feats are nothing impressive, people tend to forget we've had characters a lot faster than light ever since Namek saga and probably even in original Dragon Ball as the audience couldn't even see Roshi (Jackie Chun) vs Goku's battle.

Aside from a dub line, there is nothing to suggest that characters are faster than the speed of light. While that doesn't mean the characters aren't faster than light, there hasn't been any confirmation of that statement.

[emperior]

While i don't consider Vegeta's statement about Goku literally.There's no way SSj3 Vegetto will be touching even 1% Beerus.The gap between them is more than 10^50 times (At least based on feats).

Beerus' feats are nothing impressive, people tend to forget we've had characters a lot faster than light ever since Namek saga and probably even in original Dragon Ball as the audience couldn't even see Roshi (Jackie Chun) vs Goku's battle.

Aside from a dub line, there is nothing to suggest that characters are faster than the speed of light. While that doesn't mean the characters aren't faster than light, there hasn't been any confirmation of that statement.

wow man Burter could catch a Dragon Ball thrown with huge power by Vegeta in less than a second. If that isn't faster than light than I don't know what isn't. Also remember Bulma said with earth's technology (and in DB it's far more advanced than in real world) they could only reach Namek in 4000+ years. While it took only 6 days using Saiyan space pod technlogy AND it takes Whis few minutes to reach Earth from who knows where.
Whis is so much faster than light it's ridiculous.

[Kaboom]

wow man Burter could catch a Dragon Ball thrown with huge power by Vegeta in less than a second. If that isn't faster than light than I don't know what isn't.

Uh... no, that's just "faster than a Dragon Ball thrown by Vegeta."

There's a HUGE, astronomically so, difference between something being "faster than you can see," and actually "faster than light." They're not synonymous, not by a long shot.

Also remember Bulma said with earth's technology (and in DB it's far more advanced than in real world) they could only reach Namek in 4000+ years. While it took only 6 days using Saiyan space pod technlogy

Which means the spaceships are faster than light, not the characters inside them.

AND it takes Whis few minutes to reach Earth from who knows where.
Whis is so much faster than light it's ridiculous.

Whis makes use of some magical warp technique via his staff. He's not zipping around under his own ki-based power in the same way that characters normally fly for travel or combat.

[DanielSSJ]

wow man Burter could catch a Dragon Ball thrown with huge power by Vegeta in less than a second. If that isn't faster than light than I don't know what isn't. Also remember Bulma said with earth's technology (and in DB it's far more advanced than in real world) they could only reach Namek in 4000+ years. While it took only 6 days using Saiyan space pod technology AND it takes Whis few minutes to reach Earth from who knows where.
Whis is so much faster than light it's ridiculous.

You can travel around the world 7 times over in one second at light speed, so Butta catching the Dragon Ball doesn't neccessarily translate into light speed. As far as Whis goes, considering the unique style of animation used for Whis flying in between worlds, it's likely that the planetary travel ability is just that, an ability for planetary travel that is completely separate from his average ki-based flight and fight speed. Like I said, it is entirely possible that these guys can move faster than light. It just hasn't ever been confirmed, so don't act like it is fact.

[apex_pretador]

none of them are FTL , atleast before freeza transforms into his true form.

Also, solar flare was used in cell saga, so.......

[emperior]

And there I thought faster than eyes = faster than light, sorry for my ignorance.

Though I remember SSJ Gotenks warming up flying around the world several times, but if I remember correctly that took some time because when he went up to fight Fat Buu the fusion ended.

[apex_pretador]

And there I thought faster than eyes = faster than light, sorry for my ignorance.

Though I remember SSJ Gotenks warming up flying around the world several times, but if I remember correctly that took some time because when he went up to fight Fat Buu the fusion ended.

he took a nap after flying around earth 5-6 times.
It took 29 minutes in total. If his nap was 28 minute long, even then he's only about 50x slower than light speed.

[Hugo Boss]

I think Vegeta didn't think about Gohan as he considered him retired/didn't consider him because he is an half-blooded Saiyan.

When it comes to power, Vegeta doesn't think like Goku. And being half-blooded or not, Gohan, Trunks and Goten still count as Saiyans. Even though Gohan curbstomped a form of Boo that was stronger than a form which Vegeta himself failed to defeat. Perhaps the staff behind that scene took the liberty to change some preconceptions or simply overlooked the fact that Gohan and Gotenks surpassed Goku.

[Khin]

Beerus' feats are nothing impressive, people tend to forget we've had characters a lot faster than light ever since Namek saga and probably even in original Dragon Ball as the audience couldn't even see Roshi (Jackie Chun) vs Goku's battle.

I'm talking about the Universal clash.The best thing we got before is that Super Perfect Cell saying he can bust the entire solar system,and even that statement is debatable.But let's say he really is a SS Buster.But being a Multi-Solar System alone required you to be around 1,000 times stronger than a SS Buster.And i don't think any Boo Arc top tier is in that level except for maybe SSj Vegetto.And Faster than eye =/= Faster than light.And Beerus travels 3/4 the speed of Whis in ep2.Which is calculated to be Billions of times FTL with lowballing.

[ZombieVito]

What are your numbers for these guys:

Android 16:

Semi Cell [Initial]:
Semi Cell [Full power]:

Vegeta [Base]:
Vegeta [Super Saiyan]:
Vegeta [Super Saiyan Grade 2]:

Trunks [Base]:
Trunks [Super Saiyan]:
Trunks [Super Saiyan Grade 2]:
Trunks [Super Saiyan Grade 3]:

[apex_pretador]

What are your numbers for these guys:

Android 16: 241 million

Semi Cell [Initial]: 300 million
Semi Cell [Full power]:370 million

Vegeta [Base]: 12 million
Vegeta [Super Saiyan]: 300 million
Vegeta [Super Saiyan Grade 2]: 420 million

Trunks [Base]: 11.6 M
Trunks [Super Saiyan]: 290 M
Trunks [Super Saiyan Grade 2]: 406 M
Trunks [Super Saiyan Grade 3]: 580 M

These ^^^

[Khin]

apex_predator: Don't you think you have them a bit too low ? Does Android 17/18,Yardrat Goku and the likes even fit there ? Where do you have them at ?

What are your numbers for these guys:

Edit : I changed the numbers and added Android 17,18 and Perfect Cell.

Android 16: 600 Million
Android 17: 400 Million
Android 18: 300 Million

Imperfect Cell (Post Human Absorption): 600 Million
Semi Perfect Cell: 1 Billion
Perfect Cell (Surpressed): 1.8 Billion

Vegeta [Base]: 20 Million
Vegeta [Super Saiyan]: 1 Billion
Vegeta [Super Saiyan Grade 2]: 1.3 Billion

Trunks [Base]: 19 Million
Trunks [Super Saiyan]: 950 Million
Trunks [Super Saiyan Grade 2]: 1.235 Billion
Trunks [Super Saiyan Grade 3]: 1.9 Billion

Multipliers :
SSj = 50x Base
SSj Grade 2 = 65x Base
SSj Grade 3 = 100x Base (The same speed as regular SSj)

[emperior]

18 and 17 should be very close in power level. A difference of 100 milion is way too much imo.

[Khin]

18 and 17 should be very close in power level. A difference of 100 milion is way too much imo.

Why ? Android 17 seems to be leagues above the SSj's at that time while SSj Vegeta was able to keep up with 18 until he started to lose his stamina.

[apex_pretador]

apex_predator: Don't you think you have them a bit too low ? Does Android 17/18,Yardrat Goku and the likes even fit there ? Where do you have them at ?

I have namek goku = 100 million = namek freeza (he took a lot of damage at 50%, losing 20 million isn't far fetched)

Yadrat goku - 110 M

Post trainng - 150 M (goku & vegeta)

Cell - 180 M (pre) , 240 M (post)

#18 - 185 M
#17 - 195 M
Kamiccolo - 200 M (Full power)

Perfect cell FP will be around 1100 M (I see why he wanted to go perfect)

I think since Super Saiyan form was implied to be a huge deal & everyone (including piccolo) was shocked at vegeta "I'll surpass even the super saiyan form" , the gains after going SSJ are not as big.

Edit: Don't you think #17 & #18 must be closer, & where do you have SS vegeta (the overconfident one, before ROSAT?)