Android 16: 480Zombie wrote:What are your numbers for these guys:
He doesn't have to be.ekrolo2 wrote:Is Base Gotenks REALLY above SSJ3 Goku? I know Piccolo says he's improved hugely bu then, later on, he's surprised that Gotenks can transform. Does this mean Piccolo is simply comparing Gotenks' base form then to what it was previously or did he really become THAT much stronger?
Android 16 - 450Zombie wrote:What are your numbers for these guys
I don't even put Super Saiyan Gotenks at SS3 Goku's level. Piccolo is just being overly optimistic.ekrolo2 wrote:Is Base Gotenks REALLY above SSJ3 Goku? I know Piccolo says he's improved hugely bu then, later on, he's surprised that Gotenks can transform. Does this mean Piccolo is simply comparing Gotenks' base form then to what it was previously or did he really become THAT much stronger?
I think he's just above his SS self pre RoSaT, who's not necessarily stronger than fat buu, let alone SS3 goku.ekrolo2 wrote:Is Base Gotenks REALLY above SSJ3 Goku? I know Piccolo says he's improved hugely bu then, later on, he's surprised that Gotenks can transform. Does this mean Piccolo is simply comparing Gotenks' base form then to what it was previously or did he really become THAT much stronger?
Huh? Goku outright states that Gotenks is stronger than him:DanielSSJ wrote:I don't even put Super Saiyan Gotenks at SS3 Goku's level. Piccolo is just being overly optimistic.ekrolo2 wrote:Is Base Gotenks REALLY above SSJ3 Goku? I know Piccolo says he's improved hugely bu then, later on, he's surprised that Gotenks can transform. Does this mean Piccolo is simply comparing Gotenks' base form then to what it was previously or did he really become THAT much stronger?
Okay, a few things.Lord Beerus wrote:Huh? Goku outright states that Gotenks is stronger than him:DanielSSJ wrote:I don't even put Super Saiyan Gotenks at SS3 Goku's level. Piccolo is just being overly optimistic.ekrolo2 wrote:Is Base Gotenks REALLY above SSJ3 Goku? I know Piccolo says he's improved hugely bu then, later on, he's surprised that Gotenks can transform. Does this mean Piccolo is simply comparing Gotenks' base form then to what it was previously or did he really become THAT much stronger?
Chapter: 476 (DBZ 282), P9.3
Piccolo: “If that bastard felt like it, he could wipe out the entire Earth, up here included, in the blink of an eye…!”
Goku: “It’s alright, I don’t think he’ll take out the Earth. After all, I told him that in 2 days, someone stronger than me would fight him, and he seemed happy…”
And this is especially the case if were talking about any form of Gotenks post-ROSAT.
1. Goku's not that much of a scumbag to outright lie about the only one he knows can potentially beat Boo with him gone. And no, Gohan doesn't count because he thinks Gohan's dead along with everyone else when he comes up with the fusion idea.DanielSSJ wrote:Okay, a few things.Lord Beerus wrote:Huh? Goku outright states that Gotenks is stronger than him:DanielSSJ wrote: I don't even put Super Saiyan Gotenks at SS3 Goku's level. Piccolo is just being overly optimistic.
Chapter: 476 (DBZ 282), P9.3
Piccolo: “If that bastard felt like it, he could wipe out the entire Earth, up here included, in the blink of an eye…!”
Goku: “It’s alright, I don’t think he’ll take out the Earth. After all, I told him that in 2 days, someone stronger than me would fight him, and he seemed happy…”
And this is especially the case if were talking about any form of Gotenks post-ROSAT.
1. Goku is already lying about his strength, what with saying that he couldn't beat Fat Boo with Super Saiyan 3. Who's to say he isn't lying here, too?
2. It's stated in the guide books that Gotenks didn't even surpass Majin Vegeta until after his training in the Room of Spirit and Time. If you disagree with that source, fine, but I choose to follow it's logic in this case.
3. I work with the idea fusion doesn't come with a static power boost and that Goku didn't actually have a concrete idea of how strong Gotenks would be, just that the fusion of two super powerful Super Saiyans would hopefully produce someone strong enough to beat Boo.
What kind of broken logic is this? "This character lied one time so I can just claim they're lying whenever I like."DanielSSJ wrote:1. Goku is already lying about his strength, what with saying that he couldn't beat Fat Boo with Super Saiyan 3. Who's to say he isn't lying here, too?
I don't think Cell is twice as strong as Goku. There's definitely a noticeable gap but I think it makes more sense for Goku to be closer to 60-70% of Cell's full power.Zombie wrote:Any feedback is welcomed.
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Okay, maybe I worded this wrong. When I said Goku was lying, I meant that he was lying about Gotenks being stronger than himself, not Fat Boo. This is based on the context that he wouldn't be able to beat Fat Boo as a Super Saiyan 3 but then said that this even stronger guy would show up. My position on Gotenks initially being below Fat Boo comes from the vagueness of the fusion power boost and how Daizenshuu 7 implies that Super Saiyan Gotenks only surpassed Majin Vegeta after training in the Room of Spirit and Time.SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:What kind of broken logic is this? "This character lied one time so I can just claim they're lying whenever I like."DanielSSJ wrote:1. Goku is already lying about his strength, what with saying that he couldn't beat Fat Boo with Super Saiyan 3. Who's to say he isn't lying here, too?
The only reason we even know that Goku was "lying" was because Goku later admitted he could've defeated Fat Boo. The same can't be said for Gotenks. The only statements we ever get regarding Gotenks after he forms are "yeah...your Ki really is absolutely incredible...". Nobody ever says that Goku was wrong, and nobody worries for Gotenks' chances against Fat Boo. Gotenks' power is only called into question two times.
1. When he goes to challenge Fat Boo in base.
2. When Evil Boo comes around.
Nobody who felt SS Gotenks' Ki ever has any qualms when Fat Boo is around. There's nothing to say Goku was lying about Gotenks' strength (especially when that means he's basically a homicidal idiot), and a ton of evidence to say he was correct in his claims.
Any reason why you think that?ekrolo2 wrote:I don't think Cell is twice as strong as Goku. There's definitely a noticeable gap but I think it makes more sense for Goku to be closer to 60-70% of Cell's full power.Zombie wrote:Any feedback is welcomed.
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Don't you think you have SS gohan & Perfect cell a bit too high in comparison to goku ?Zombie wrote:Any feedback is welcomed.
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There is no indication that 17 and 18 are close to each other,all we got is that 17 is stronger than her.So you could place them anywhere you like unless it contradict something.apex_pretador wrote:Edit: Don't you think #17 & #18 must be closer, & where do you have SS vegeta (the overconfident one, before ROSAT?)
Zombie wrote:Any feedback is welcomed.
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He doesn't need to absorb anymore since he knows he is already stronger than Piccolo by a good margin.emperior wrote:Zombie wrote:Any feedback is welcomed.
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Main complain I have with this list is Imperfect Cell getting that huge boost just by absorbing humans. If he really got that strong absorbing some thousands of people, then his best option would be of absorbing the entire population and after that absorbing the androids. I always assumed absorbing humans was a tedious process for Cell and it didn't give that much of a power boost to him, that's why as soon as he was stronger than Piccolo he rushed to the battlefield and absorbed 17.
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