Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[LightBing]

So Goku wasn't fighting seriously in his base form against Botamo or Frost?

I mean, against Botamo he dodges his attacks pretty effortlessly, against first form Frost, he's keeping up with ease while Frost is sweating, and against third form Frost he has a bit more trouble but he still manages to get up with no damage after one of Frost's attacks. So it seems like Goku was pretty much toying with both of them, even though Frost's third form is probably around base Goku's strength level.

Yup pretty much. Although after receiving Third Form Frost's(shouldn't it be second form) attack, Goku get ups with a happy face and doing stretches. There's a big gap between Base Goku and Second Form Frost (yup gonna call it that, he's not Freeza after all). Goku turned SSJ to force him to power up.

Botamo - 100
First Form Frost - 150
Second Form Frost - 250
Base Goku - 800

I think those are the gaps, I won't guess the rest, they have to explain the deal with SSJ and SSJB... c'mon!

[ArchedThunder]

So Goku wasn't fighting seriously in his base form against Botamo or Frost?

I mean, against Botamo he dodges his attacks pretty effortlessly, against first form Frost, he's keeping up with ease while Frost is sweating, and against third form Frost he has a bit more trouble but he still manages to get up with no damage after one of Frost's attacks. So it seems like Goku was pretty much toying with both of them, even though Frost's third form is probably around base Goku's strength level.

Yeah, I'm thinking Third Form Frost is around Base Goku's strength (so either as strong or stronger than Fourth Form Freeza in F). I'm wondering how SSJ Goku and Fourth Form Frost will stack up to eachother, I'm thinking Goku loses before can use Blue, but if he had used Blue instead of SSJ he would have won. Also curious how Fourth Form Frost and Golden Freeza compare, I'm thinking Frost is weaker right now unless he's hiding a Golden equivalent. The comment about Frost being the best hand to hand fighter makes me think maybe he isn't a mutant like Freeza and obtained his power over years of training.

[Khin]

I'm thinking Frost also have a ''Ultimate Evolution'' like Golden Freeza and he will use it against Piccolo.

[ArchedThunder]

I'm thinking Frost also have a ''Ultimate Evolution'' like Golden Freeza and he will use it against Piccolo.

Why would he though? Piccolo should be much weaker than SSJ Goku, so I don't see any reason he would transform again. I'm thinking he either doesn't have a Golden equivalent yet, or he does and he will either not get to use it before getting knocked out of the tournament (similar to what we might see with Goku and Blue), or he'll use it against Vegeta (assuming Frost beats Piccolo).

[Khin]

Why would you be so sure that Piccolo would be weaker than SSj Goku ? If Piccolo didn't get a powerup,then he is 100% gonna get wrecked.Even if we say that Frost will get tired after his fight with Goku,the power gap will still be huge,just look at how strong even a tired Golden Freeza is.

[ArchedThunder]

Why would you be so sure that Piccolo would be weaker than SSj Goku ? If Piccolo didn't get a powerup,then he is 100% gonna get wrecked.Even if we say that Frost will get tired after his fight with Goku,the power gap will still be huge,just look at how strong even a tired Golden Freeza is.

Because nothing points towards Piccolo having gotten a powerup, and SSJ Goku is as strong as Super Saiyan God so...
I think Piccolo will be completely outmatched and try to win with a makankosappo.

[Khin]

Because nothing points towards Piccolo having gotten a powerup, and SSJ Goku is as strong as Super Saiyan God so...
I think Piccolo will be completely outmatched and try to win with a makankosappo.

Just because we got no direct hint of Piccolo getting powerup that doesn't mean it's impossible for him to have.Vegeta in ROF didn't get any hint either and he suddenly turns SSGSS in Freeza out of nowhere.Piccolo didn't even get worried that he's going to fight next to Goku.

[ArchedThunder]

Because nothing points towards Piccolo having gotten a powerup, and SSJ Goku is as strong as Super Saiyan God so...
I think Piccolo will be completely outmatched and try to win with a makankosappo.

Just because we got no direct hint of Piccolo getting powerup that doesn't mean it's impossible for him to have.Vegeta in ROF didn't get any hint either and he suddenly turns SSGSS in Freeza out of nowhere.Piccolo didn't even get worried that he's going to fight next to Goku.

"Didn't get any hint"
Except for all those months of training under Whis....

Piccolo on the other hand turns down training with Goku and Vegeta because he can't keep up.

[Khin]

"Didn't get any hint"
Except for all those months of training under Whis....

Piccolo on the other hand turns down training with Goku and Vegeta because he can't keep up.

Training with Whis automatically means that he's a god tier ? I forgot to mention that Piccolo trained with Gohan,who is much stronger than him.And we all know what happened to Tagoma when he trained with Freeza.Big power boost isn't impossible ever since ROF Arc.

[ArchedThunder]

"Didn't get any hint"
Except for all those months of training under Whis....

Piccolo on the other hand turns down training with Goku and Vegeta because he can't keep up.

Training with Whis automatically means that he's a god tier ? I forgot to mention that Piccolo trained with Gohan,who is much stronger than him.And we all know what happened to Tagoma when he trained with Freeza.Big power boost isn't impossible ever since ROF Arc.

Yes, training with Whis makes you God tier. Piccolo has probably gotten stronger in his training with Gohan, but I doubt he's anywhere near Super Saiyan God level.
"Bet Everything on the Makankōsappō!" screams desperate situation.

Tagoma was beaten to near death every day and regenerated so it could happen again the next day, Piccolo isn't doing training like that.

[Khin]

Yes, training with Whis makes you God tier. Piccolo has probably gotten stronger in his training with Gohan, but I doubt he's anywhere near Super Saiyan God level.
"Bet Everything on the Makankōsappō!" screams desperate situation.
Tagoma was beaten to near death every day and regenerated so it could happen again the next day, Piccolo isn't doing training like that.

What ? Except in Super,we see no one got massively stronger just by training with Whis.We know next to nothing to him before.

Desperate situation doesn't mean Piccolo got no power up.It could just mean that Frost gains the upper hand after transforming further.And how the hell is the Makankossapo can even hurt Frost if he is more than 100x stronger than him ?

Tagoma isn't a Saiyan,he doesn't receive zenkai boosts until stated.And Piccolo trained twice the time Tagoma spends.

[namekiansaiyan]

Piccolo must be strong otherwise Beerus would not have let him participate. Piccolo must be stronger than Gohan because Goku went to ask him first and not Gohan. Piccolo will not get annihalated he is there for a reason and not to get one-shotted( if this was the case he would have went first). He is more likely to win than lose for the story so it will be 3 vs 3 after he beats Frost.

[Khin]

Piccolo must be strong otherwise Beerus would not have let him participate. Piccolo must be stronger than Gohan because Goku went to ask him first and not Gohan. Piccolo will not get annihalated he is there for a reason and not to get one-shotted( if this was the case he would have went first). He is more likely to win than lose for the story so it will be 3 vs 3 after he beats Frost.

The reason why they chose Piccolo over Gohan is because Goku said that Gohan doesn't like fighting.But once he know that Gohan trained with Piccolo,he picked him.But that doesn't mean Piccolo is weaker.One of the reasons why i think Piccolo got a powerup is this line.

Spoiler:

Beerus: “That’s enough! Hurry up and decide the order! Monoka’s strongest, so he goes last!!”

And the three wishes that Polunga can grant.
1. Revive Piccolo.
2. ??????
3. Defuse Kibitoshin.

[ArchedThunder]

What ? Except in Super,we see no one got massively stronger just by training with Whis.We know next to nothing to him before.

The entire point of the introduction of his training was to make Vegeta God tier....

Desperate situation doesn't mean Piccolo got no power up.It could just mean that Frost gains the upper hand after transforming further.And how the hell is the Makankossapo can even hurt Frost if he is more than 100x stronger than him ?

By piercing through him. Also I don't even think Piccolo is going to win.

Tagoma isn't a Saiyan,he doesn't receive zenkai boosts until stated.And Piccolo trained twice the time Tagoma spends.

I'm glad you are an expert on Tagoma's race. Not having to worry about recuperation would greatly boost Tagoma's training either way.

The reason why they chose Piccolo over Gohan is because Goku said that Gohan doesn't like fighting.But once he know that Gohan trained with Piccolo,he picked him.But it's not like Goku or Vegeta knew that Piccolo got stronger.One of the reasons why i think Piccolo got the powerup is this line.

Spoiler:

Beerus: “That’s enough! Hurry up and decide the order! Monoka’s strongest, so he goes last!!”

And the three wishes that Polunga can grant.
1. Revive Piccolo.
2. ??????
3. Defuse Kibitoshin.

I don't see how that quote implies he got a power up in anyway. All it means is that Monaka is the strongest and Beerus doesn't care who comes before him.

[namekiansaiyan]

Piccolo must be strong otherwise Beerus would not have let him participate. Piccolo must be stronger than Gohan because Goku went to ask him first and not Gohan. Piccolo will not get annihalated he is there for a reason and not to get one-shotted( if this was the case he would have went first). He is more likely to win than lose for the story so it will be 3 vs 3 after he beats Frost.

The reason why they chose Piccolo over Gohan is because Goku said that Gohan doesn't like fighting.But once he know that Gohan trained with Piccolo,he picked him.But that doesn't mean Piccolo is weaker.One of the reasons why i think Piccolo got a powerup is this line.

Spoiler:

Beerus: “That’s enough! Hurry up and decide the order! Monoka’s strongest, so he goes last!!”

And the three wishes that Polunga can grant.
1. Revive Piccolo.
2. ??????
3. Defuse Kibitoshin.

I still think Piccolo is stronger based on the training we saw in episode 30

[ArchedThunder]

Piccolo must be strong otherwise Beerus would not have let him participate. Piccolo must be stronger than Gohan because Goku went to ask him first and not Gohan. Piccolo will not get annihalated he is there for a reason and not to get one-shotted( if this was the case he would have went first). He is more likely to win than lose for the story so it will be 3 vs 3 after he beats Frost.

The reason why they chose Piccolo over Gohan is because Goku said that Gohan doesn't like fighting.But once he know that Gohan trained with Piccolo,he picked him.But that doesn't mean Piccolo is weaker.One of the reasons why i think Piccolo got a powerup is this line.

Spoiler:

Beerus: “That’s enough! Hurry up and decide the order! Monoka’s strongest, so he goes last!!”

And the three wishes that Polunga can grant.
1. Revive Piccolo.
2. ??????
3. Defuse Kibitoshin.

I still think Piccolo is stronger based on the training we saw in episode 30

Sure, but I don't see why anyone should expect him to be Super Saiyan God level.

[Khin]

- The entire point of the introduction of his training was to make Vegeta God tier....
- By piercing through him. Also I don't even think Piccolo is going to win.
- I'm glad you are an expert on Tagoma's race. Not having to worry about recuperation would greatly boost Tagoma's training either way.
- I don't see how that quote implies he got a power up in anyway. All it means is that Monaka is the strongest and Beerus doesn't care who comes before him.

- This only happened in Super.
- Like i said.How can he pierce him if he is much weaker ?
- Like i said before,Tagoma doesn't have zenkais until stated otherwise.
- Why wouldn't he care ? Vegeta and Goku isn't much weaker than Monaka.

[Shin]

- This only happened in Super.

And this is Super! Did you forget?

- Like i said.How can he pierce him if he is much weaker ?

I mean really it's the same reason as to how Piccolo pierced Raditz despite him being significantly weaker.

[namekiansaiyan]

Piccolo must be strong otherwise Beerus would not have let him participate. Piccolo must be stronger than Gohan because Goku went to ask him first and not Gohan. Piccolo will not get annihalated he is there for a reason and not to get one-shotted( if this was the case he would have went first). He is more likely to win than lose for the story so it will be 3 vs 3 after he beats Frost.

The reason why they chose Piccolo over Gohan is because Goku said that Gohan doesn't like fighting.But once he know that Gohan trained with Piccolo,he picked him.But that doesn't mean Piccolo is weaker.One of the reasons why i think Piccolo got a powerup is this line.

Spoiler:

Beerus: “That’s enough! Hurry up and decide the order! Monoka’s strongest, so he goes last!!”

And the three wishes that Polunga can grant.
1. Revive Piccolo.
2. ??????
3. Defuse Kibitoshin.

I still think Piccolo is stronger based on the training we saw in episode 30

[Khin]

- And this is Super! Did you forget?
- I mean really it's the same reason as to how Piccolo pierced Raditz despite him being significantly weaker.

- We're discussing the movie version.
- Piccolo's Makankossapo is around 1,300 while Raditz is 1,200 - 1,500.The gap between the Frost and Piccolo is way too big that it's impossible for the Makankossapo to do any damage to Frost,unless it will be like Tenshinha's Kikoho against Semi PC.