"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[GodVegetto91]

Unlike SSGSS which is a permanent form. Able to be accessed at any given time. It really is the perfect form. Since it's just using Super Saiyan to tap into your Godly Ki. It's meant to be the perfect form to use for the rest of your life.

And why should Goku use his strongest form against Frost already?!

Because the difference between Base Saiyan Beyond God Goku and SSJ Blue is super small. Most of us agree on that.
Base Goku: 6
SSGSS Goku: 7.5

Using an inbetween just sucks! It's either going all out. Or being in your lowest form. Furthermore turning regular Super Saiyan shouldn't even be possible right now. Because Goku's new power source is God Ki. Turning SSJ works like "bringing out" your "inner power" so by all counts he should automatically become a SSJB. It should've replaced his regular Super Saiyan Form.

He only gets a "little bit" stronger by turning SSJ Blue at this point.

Having normal SSJ around just confuses things and sucks major ass. It's all or nothing. Goku's base now is pretty darn close to SSJB.

I just think it's weird. I thought the whole God Ki thing was supposed to be a way to make transformations easier. Get rid of SS2 and SS3, change up SS a bit to show it's more powerful now and you're done. Simple and effective. But now Toriyama is needlessly complicating it all if Goku can turn normal Super Saiyan again.

That's what i've been saying the entire time for the last 24 hours!
Didn't you get that? xD

[BluePiccolo]

Unlike SSGSS which is a permanent form. Able to be accessed at any given time. It really is the perfect form. Since it's just using Super Saiyan to tap into your Godly Ki. It's meant to be the perfect form to use for the rest of your life.

And why should Goku use his strongest form against Frost already?!

Because the difference between Base Saiyan Beyond God Goku and SSJ Blue is super small. Most of us agree on that.
Base Goku: 6
SSGSS Goku: 7.5

He only gets a "little bit" stronger by turning SSJ Blue at this point.

Where on earth did you get this information from?

[FortuneSSJ]

Because the difference betweem Base Saiyan Beyond God Goku and SSJ Blue is super small. Most of us agree on that.

Using an inbetween just sucks! It's either going all out. Or being in your lowest form. Furthermore turning regular Super Saiyan shouldn't even be possible right now. Because Goku's new power source is God Ki. Turning SSJ works like "bringing out" your "inner power" so by all counts he should automatically become a SSJB. It should've replaced his regular Super Saiyan Form.

That's not how Goku rolls. Goku always adjusts his level to make the fight interesting. He had ssj3 in Buu arc and even so:
- He used SSJ against Yakon.
- He used SSj2 against Majin Vegeta.
- He started with SSJ against Kid Buu.

Also in Battle of Gods, he used SSJ first against Beerus in the first round.
And after he revert back, he still used SSJ both in the Movie and in Super. If that was a error now because of SSB, Toei would have fixed that part. But there's nothing to fix.

The reason why he didn't turn SSB against Frost is simple.
Goku is preserving his energy for the next matches and still doesn't feel like Frost is worthy to go all out.
He wants Frost to use his full power, to see how he compares to it. The same way He made Uub angry in EOZ.

SSB will never replace SSJ, which has been with us for 20+ years. Never.
Goku can use both of them if he wants. Each one uses a different fuel.

Probably right now his tranformation formula will be: Base - SSJ - SSB instead of: Base - SSJ1 - SSj2 - SSJ3.

[Hellspawn28]

So is Frost really a bad guy or not? I'm pretty confused on the whole thing right now.

[FortuneSSJ]

So is Frost really a bad guy or not? I'm pretty confused on the whole thing right now.

He's a gentleman. There's nothing evil on him, so far.

[Sodhi]

So is Frost really a bad guy or not? I'm pretty confused on the whole thing right now.

Not from what we have seen in the manga so far. Hit on the other hand, there is something suspicious about him. Even goku gave him this weird look.

[SansrivaaL]

Unlike SSGSS which is a permanent form. Able to be accessed at any given time. It really is the perfect form. Since it's just using Super Saiyan to tap into your Godly Ki. It's meant to be the perfect form to use for the rest of your life.

And why should Goku use his strongest form against Frost already?!

Because the difference between Base Saiyan Beyond God Goku and SSJ Blue is super small. Most of us agree on that.
Base Goku: 6
SSGSS Goku: 7.5

He only gets a "little bit" stronger by turning SSJ Blue at this point.

When was this stated? those are your own numbers, we have no idea how much Goku's power increases when he goes Blue, and like I said both him and Vegeta went to RoSAT for 3years, there is no way in hell nothing happened there. Wouldnt be surprised if Goku can even turn into a SSJB 2 or something, just because Akira Toriyama said he doesnt want ssj2/ssj3 anymore doesnt mean he wont change his mind mid game. I mean he changed his mind when he thought he would be done with DB but here we are now, enjoying this shit lol.

[GodVegetto91]

Because the difference betweem Base Saiyan Beyond God Goku and SSJ Blue is super small. Most of us agree on that.

Using an inbetween just sucks! It's either going all out. Or being in your lowest form. Furthermore turning regular Super Saiyan shouldn't even be possible right now. Because Goku's new power source is God Ki. Turning SSJ works like "bringing out" your "inner power" so by all counts he should automatically become a SSJB. It should've replaced his regular Super Saiyan Form.

That's not how Goku rolls. Goku always adjusts his level to make the fight interesting. He had ssj3 in Buu arc and even so:
- He used SSJ against Yakon.
- He used SSj2 against Majin Vegeta.
- He started with SSJ against Kid Buu.

Also in Battle of Gods, he used SSJ first.

The reason why he didn't turn SSB against Frost is simple.
Goku is preserving his energy for the next matches and doesn't feel like Frost is worhty to go all out yet.

SSB will never replace SSJ, which has been with us for 20+ years. Never.
Goku can use both of them if he wants. Each one uses a different fuel.

Probably right now his tranformation formula will be: Base - SSJ - SSB instead of Base - SSJ1 - SSj2 - SSJ3.

You still don't get it do you?
ssgss IS Super Saiyan! It is a godly saiyan turning super saiyan.
If Goku really wants to preserve his strength he should fight in BASE. Turning SSJ would result in SSJB. There's only one way to turn Super Saiyan.
SSJ Blue is only a small increase. Like 25% or something. Based on feats and statement that's something i know. And even IF he were to turn regular Super Saiyan. (Which should make NO sense) it would still make him just as strong as SSJB!

If the increase is soo small like i believe. Then there really is no need for an "in-betweener" like you seem to want.

So a few options.

When Goku tries to turn SSJ that is:

1. He automatically becomes SSJ Blue. (Which seems to make the most sense) and is what i go with.
2. He (somehow) turns gold again. (Which doesn't explain RoF) but whatever.
He will still have the same increase and be exactly as strong as SSJB as a regular Super Saiyan.

I'm not a big fan of the theory that Goku can somehow decide when to turn SSJB or regular SSJ. And in either case. Wether it be blond or blue. He gets the same increase. And they're equally strong. Only diffrence is one has god ki and the other doesn't. But like i said. I don't like this idea at all!

[Chuquita]

My cynical far-fetched theory:

Maybe the plan was ultimately to get rid of all the non-Toriyama stuff from BOG that he couldn't get rid of because it had already been decided by Shueisha that there was going to be something called a "super saiyan god". Maybe it was all a work-a-round to get rid of it the same way Toriyama kept saiyan tails from coming back by hand-waving and saying Uni 6 saiyans don't have tails because. (Since we know Toriyama doesn't like the tails.)

Like...ssjg had to exist because Shueisha already had trademarks and merch plans, and blueper was purposely even less creative because it was there just for the sake of having a "new transformation" for the 2nd new movie and Toriyama didn't put much thought into blueper's look because he'd planned to get rid of it altogether anyway because he's sick of transformations in general so the reason he had Gokû and Vegeta use the RoSaT for 3 years was to give some kind of reason for why blueper is gone, even if that reason ends up being something vague and hand-wavey again.

[TheMikado]

I see that there are people overly obsessed with Goku being a blue haired ssj, I wonder what happens when Goku really did just go gold ssj. I'm 99% sure its gold tho not because I want to but because of how I think Goku's still holding back, saving his stamina because he feels something off from a certain someone.

Yeah I really don't get the obsession, Goku had the SSG form for literally one arc but everyone is now freaking out about not having SSB?? Plus the comments about SSJ looking weird are so bizarre after Goku and the gang have literally been rocking it for the past 20 YEARS!!

You don't seem to understand the difference between the two here.. SSJ God has been introduced as a "One Time Transformation". It was never meant to be a permanent transformation. It was revealed to have a time limit. The moment it was introduced. (In order to absorb it's power and make it your own) since Akira Toriyama wants to get back to the basics. (Base and SSJ) as stated in an interview.
Unlike SSGSS which is a permanent form. Able to be accessed at any given time. It really is the perfect form. Since it's just using Super Saiyan to tap into your Godly Ki. It's meant to be the perfect form to use for the rest of your life.

Here's what I know. Initial SSG form promotes a change in physical appearance until the point where it is lost and the God kit merges with your own. I.e. get used to having the power. As can be seen what happened to Goku. We know that SSG was relatively new for both Goku and Vegeta when introduced and that they trained for the equivalent of 3 years. We do not yet know the full extent of their training but if it was similar to preparing for cell Goku would have focused on making God Ki as natural as possible hence where we saw the base SSJ take on a different relaxed appearance. If the the same training occurred it's possible the God Ki is now a standard part of their Ki and only gives normal appearances now. Of course I'm speculating but anyone who says SSB is still around is speculating as well.

[Chuquita]

I do understand/sympathize with those who are sad/upset that blueper saiyan might be gone forever though; I was sad/upset over losing ssjg. It's never fun when something you like gets replaced with something else.

[TheMikado]

My cynical far-fetched theory:

Maybe the plan was ultimately to get rid of all the non-Toriyama stuff from BOG that he couldn't get rid of because it had already been decided by Shueisha that there was going to be something called a "super saiyan god". Maybe it was all a work-a-round to get rid of it the same way Toriyama kept saiyan tails from coming back by hand-waving and saying Uni 6 saiyans don't have tails because. (Since we know Toriyama doesn't like the tails.)

Like...ssjg had to exist because Shueisha already had trademarks and merch plans, and blueper was purposely even less creative because it was there just for the sake of having a "new transformation" for the 2nd new movie and Toriyama didn't put much thought into blueper's look because he'd planned to get rid of it altogether anyway because he's sick of transformations in general so the reason he had Gokû and Vegeta use the RoSaT for 3 years was to give some kind of reason for why blueper is gone, even if that reason ends up being something vague and hand-wavey again.

definitely possible

[GodVegetto91]

My cynical far-fetched theory:

Maybe the plan was ultimately to get rid of all the non-Toriyama stuff from BOG that he couldn't get rid of because it had already been decided by Shueisha that there was going to be something called a "super saiyan god". Maybe it was all a work-a-round to get rid of it the same way Toriyama kept saiyan tails from coming back by hand-waving and saying Uni 6 saiyans don't have tails because. (Since we know Toriyama doesn't like the tails.)

Like...ssjg had to exist because Shueisha already had trademarks and merch plans, and blueper was purposely even less creative because it was there just for the sake of having a "new transformation" for the 2nd new movie and Toriyama didn't put much thought into blueper's look because he'd planned to get rid of it altogether anyway because he's sick of transformations in general so the reason he had Gokû and Vegeta use the RoSaT for 3 years was to give some kind of reason for why blueper is gone, even if that reason ends up being something vague and hand-wavey again.

Well that's actually a pretty good theory. Haven't thought about that one. Would explain lots of things indeed. Good thinking!

[Zephyr]

Does he really need to explain why he thinks the dude has low standards?

This might be just me, but saying "you have low standards" with absolutely no other support (such as what high standards might entail), feels identical to telling someone "you have shit taste". It's needlessly hostile and antagonistic; this isn't 4chan, where that's normal banter; there are actual conversational standards that the people paying to keep this site alive are aiming to foster. It's not intellectually stimulating at all, because it can literally be disagreed with by means of a simple "no, you have low standards", which takes the conversation nowhere. And on top of all of that, it wasn't even typed as a proper sentence. That last part may seem like an incredibly pendantic point, but it's relevant nonetheless. The staff aren't trying to foster instant message chatroom discussion, and when people don't even take the time to polish up what they're typing before posting, it comes off as attempting to treat the forum as something it isn't.

[Retan]

I feel like frost is a lot stronger then Freeza (He probablty trains regularly) and attained and is used to his Golden-like version unlike freeza, who don't forget would of beaten Goku if he'd been used to the form. Then Piccolo will step in against a at least partially tired frost, and be able to do nothing leaving him to resort to the Makankasappo, where it goes from there I have no clue.

[Sandubadear]

So is Frost really a bad guy or not? I'm pretty confused on the whole thing right now.

Yeah, it's kind of confusing. Piccolo says Frost doesn't feel evil, but he was called "evil emperor" a few times.

[Swifticuffs]

Does he really need to explain why he thinks the dude has low standards?

This might be just me, but saying "you have low standards" with absolutely no other support (such as what high standards might entail), feels identical to telling someone "you have shit taste". It's needlessly hostile and antagonistic; this isn't 4chan, where that's normal banter; there are actual conversational standards that the people paying to keep this site alive are aiming to foster. It's not intellectually stimulating at all, because it can literally be disagreed with by means of a simple "no, you have low standards", which takes the conversation nowhere. And on top of all of that, it wasn't even typed as a proper sentence. That last part may seem like an incredibly pendantic point, but it's relevant nonetheless. The staff aren't trying to foster instant message chatroom discussion, and when people don't even take the time to polish up what they're typing before posting, it comes off as attempting to treat the forum as something it isn't.

Cool. Fair enough in that regard, and per the mod's request, I'll drop it now and get on topic.

[Doctor.]

So is Frost really a bad guy or not? I'm pretty confused on the whole thing right now.

Yeah, it's kind of confusing. Piccolo says Frost doesn't feel evil, but he was called "evil emperor" a few times.

He was never called an evil emperor...

[Swifticuffs]

So is Frost really a bad guy or not? I'm pretty confused on the whole thing right now.

Yeah, it's kind of confusing. Piccolo says Frost doesn't feel evil, but he was called "evil emperor" a few times.

Maybe I read a crappy translation, but when is he called this? And is it by other people thinking he's Freeza, or is he actually described as such? Thanks.

[Sandubadear]

So is Frost really a bad guy or not? I'm pretty confused on the whole thing right now.

Yeah, it's kind of confusing. Piccolo says Frost doesn't feel evil, but he was called "evil emperor" a few times.

Maybe I read a crappy translation, but when is he called this? And is it by other people thinking he's Freeza, or is he actually described as such? Thanks.

So is Frost really a bad guy or not? I'm pretty confused on the whole thing right now.

Yeah, it's kind of confusing. Piccolo says Frost doesn't feel evil, but he was called "evil emperor" a few times.

He was never called an evil emperor...

The writing near Frost says "Legendary Super Saiyan vs. Evil Emperor again!"