Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #32]

Post by Bansho64 » Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:50 pm

For me, the animation and art in the Ultimate Blast intro is how modern Dragon Ball should be. It had wonderful colors, animation, shading and it gave some really good camera views, Yes, I know it's a game opening compared to an episode of an anime (which has a way shorter time limit to make) but it still is a great example of the potential and resources that can be used to make a really good looking product.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #32]

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:51 pm

That opening for Ultimate Blast really does go to show just how terrible Yamamuro is. Kei suspects that he directed the opening for Dragon Ball Kai: The Final Chapters and it really pales in comparison. It doesn't help that Yamamuro later tried to pull off Nagamine-style storyboarding for the fight with Freeza's army but completely botches any sense of energy and flow.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #32]

Post by Bansho64 » Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:59 pm

JulieYBM wrote:That opening for Ultimate Blast really does go to show just how terrible Yamamuro is. Kei suspects that he directed the opening for Dragon Ball Kai: The Final Chapters and it really pales in comparison. It doesn't help that Yamamuro later tried to pull off Nagamine-style storyboarding for the fight with Freeza's army but completely botches any sense of energy and flow.
I still can't believe Yamamuro tried to correct the cuts in the intro for Ultimate Blast. Those cuts were amazing! Gotta wonder who did the work on it?

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #32]

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:10 pm

These are the staff credits for all of the work Toei Animation did for Ultimate Blast, including the cut scenes:
My guess is that Ootsuka Ken, Kanno Toshiyuki, Wada Takaaki, Tate Naoki, Kawamura Atsuko, Kurita Shin’ichi, Shida Naotoshi, Oonishi Ryou, and Satou Masayuki are the ones who worked on the opening. Shida did Gokuu fighting Freeza and Kurita did Super Saiyan 3 Gokuu and Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta fighting Yi Xing Long.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #32]

Post by Bansho64 » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:18 pm

JulieYBM wrote:These are the staff credits for all of the work Toei Animation did for Ultimate Blast, including the cut scenes:
My guess is that Ootsuka Ken, Kanno Toshiyuki, Wada Takaaki, Tate Naoki, Kawamura Atsuko, Kurita Shin’ichi, Shida Naotoshi, Oonishi Ryou, and Satou Masayuki are the ones who worked on the opening. Shida did Gokuu fighting Freeza and Kurita did Super Saiyan 3 Gokuu and Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta fighting Yi Xing Long.
Thanks! I knew I saw a bit of Shidas animation on there. He's really good. Underrated quite a bit in my opinion.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #32]

Post by jjgp1112 » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:45 pm

I dunno, man. A lot of the hate towards Yamamuro seems really disproportionate.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #32]

Post by Bansho64 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 12:20 am

jjgp1112 wrote:I dunno, man. A lot of the hate towards Yamamuro seems really disproportionate.
Sometimes it can get out of hand but I can see where these people are coming from. They're tired of boring camera shots and fights. They want good choreography and more fluid animation. He just isn't like he used to be. Tate's animation may have not been on model a lot but he gave good angles and smooth fighting. Yamamuro's style however has deteriorated greatly. His art style has grown more roundish with uneven proportions of characters noses, hair,etc. His shading has taken a downgrade too. I will say the hate he's gotten hasn't been all warranted but it hasn't been all unwarranted either. But he's stayed on this franchise for a long time and devoted his life to it, so he does deserve some credit for that.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #32]

Post by DragonBalllKaiHD » Mon Feb 22, 2016 12:44 am

It will really be nice if Shida comes back, not to storyboard, but to key animate a fight scene for the tournament.
jjgp1112 wrote:I dunno, man. A lot of the hate towards Yamamuro seems really disproportionate.
We don't hate his enthusiasm, but his influence is terrible. He just isn't cut out to be Mr. Dragon Ball anymore.

Dragon Ball Z was all about variety of animators' works which were never corrected by Maeda nor Nakatsuru. Yamamuro does this nowadays. Because of him we are stuck with his constant correction on key animators' work. We are left wondering what was their work without correction. His sense of directing and motion are awful. There are plenty of good animators out there that can take the role of character designer. Even Nakatsuru is a better alternative.
Last edited by DragonBalllKaiHD on Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:00 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #32]

Post by Super Saiyan Swagger » Mon Feb 22, 2016 12:52 am

Same, I want to see Shida animate something in Super as well. I adore his cut in Battle of Gods and I want to see something like that again in Super. One Piece needs to quit hogging him. :lol:

I think we've only seen Shida animate one sequence in Super and that was the fight between that alien and that blue dinosaur. Did he do anything else?

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #32]

Post by DragonBalllKaiHD » Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:03 am

Super Saiyan Swagger wrote:Same, I want to see Shida animate something in Super as well. I adore his cut in Battle of Gods and I want to see something like that again in Super. One Piece needs to quit hogging him. :lol:

I think we've only seen Shida animate one sequence in Super and that was the fight between that alien and that blue dinosaur. Did he do anything else?
Shida never did animate even a single scene. He only storyboarded a few times, though.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #32]

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:16 am

I do often feel like these discussions become very insular due to the lack of experience Dragon Ball fans have with series outside their own. It's a probably that stems from Dragon Ball being 'mainstream'. I've seen a number of posters over the years on this forum that claim to be not 'anime fans' but simply fans of Dragon Ball, which I think leads to an overall ignorance about the subculture and industry in which Dragon Ball was created. This can come back to weaken discussion and consequently make it less easy to hold discussion.

Anyway, Dragon Ball definitely needs a Wakabayashi Atsushi (wild, pure instinct animator who applies his animation to his directing) or Tsuru Toshiyuki (good animator, but also a writer and visionary director). Tate Naoki definitely fits the former better but I do think that Toei Animation needs to stress more the evolution of its animators into directors. Toei Animation tends to be very broken in that respect. Whenever a Toei animator becomes a director they tend to stop animating all together. Yamamuro Tadayoshi's role in Fukkatsu no F fits the Wakabayashi/Tsuru approach but lacks the qualities that make Wakabayashi and Tsuru so good: solid skill as animators but also an interest in what other animators have to contribute to their episode or film. After what Tate Naoki was doing with One Piece in 2006-2010, specifically as character designer and animation supervisor, I could have sworn he was being groomed to become something special for Toei Animation. Then the latter half of 2010 came and Tate basically disappeared for a while and came back nowhere near where he was earlier.

Dragon Ball Super has slowly become a return to form for Tate. I hope he continues to advance until he can start pulling off winners like One Piece #420 again.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #32]

Post by Hit!! » Mon Feb 22, 2016 3:00 am

Super Saiyan Swagger wrote:
I actually really like Yamamuro. He can create some excellent fight choreography and I actually like the new "modern" look he brought to Dragon Ball. He animated my favourite scene in the entire series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6bz-vK4-fo
I knew it.. I knew that scene had a heavy "Fukkatsu no F" vibe, or the other way around, given this scene is obviously much older.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #32]

Post by ArchedThunder » Mon Feb 22, 2016 6:26 am

Man, I really wish Super's colors were more like that Ultimate Blast intro, the colors in Super are just a little too bright and saturated.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #32]

Post by Bansho64 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:48 am

ArchedThunder wrote:Man, I really wish Super's colors were more like that Ultimate Blast intro, the colors in Super are just a little too bright and saturated.
The colors in Super are always too bright for me. Everyone is so shiny.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #32]

Post by LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta » Mon Feb 22, 2016 6:49 pm

ArchedThunder wrote:Man, I really wish Super's colors were more like that Ultimate Blast intro, the colors in Super are just a little too bright and saturated.

It should be closer to the GT final bout game on PS1's opening. Those colors were perfect. With these colors everyone looks sweaty. IDK what that white stuff on their skin all the time is about but it looks like CUM. Champa's arc looks better but still has the bad coloring on the characters. Stuff like the universe in the background looks much better in terms of colors.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #32]

Post by DragonBalllKaiHD » Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:39 pm

Just now, I'm really wondering if Toshiyuki Kan'no will be able to return to the franchise as a guest animation supervisor. By the look of things, it doesn't seem like he will any time soon. :lol:
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #32]

Post by KaiserNeko » Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:24 pm

It's hard to believe anyone could call Naoki Tate's worst work anything less than serviceable.

Especially consider this is one of the most well animated parts of the fight between Goku and Golden Freeza, the animation on display both here and here are amazing, and even Episode 5 still had some really decent shots in it that people seem to ignore because of the awful first half, and the failings there were due to Toei rushing the production, not on Naoki Tate.

I'd really rather the characters go a little off model if it means fluid, beautiful fighting instead of most of what we got in the Res. 'F' arc. Which, frankly... yikes.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #32]

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:31 pm

Blaming Tate Naoki for Episode #5 is like blaming an apple for gravity pulling it down. The guy didn't even have enough time to do any animation for the episode him and even Ootsuka Ken wasn't up to his usual level. Tate is definitely the closest thing the series has to a 'main animator' right now, given it's complete lack of proper scheduling. It's a real shame to see him so poorly supported. If there's any animation supervisor that should be getting better animators and more time it's Tate.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #32]

Post by Wezenheim » Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:43 pm

I'm still hoping the stars align like they seemed to for the most part in episode 11 for Tate. The guy definitely needs more help.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #32]

Post by Cipher » Mon Feb 22, 2016 11:35 pm

Ah, I remember watching that and thinking the Freeza fight was off to such a good start, animation-wise. Too bad it became so incredibly bland and static after that.

I'd kill for Tate to be able to do a larger portion of an episode. Even his dialogue scenes are more expressive and animated than most.
Last edited by Cipher on Mon Feb 22, 2016 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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