Do you think the series is good at world building?

[precita]

I was just thinking about how we started off with Master Roshi being the strong teacher. Then there was Korin who taught Roshi. Then from there we meet Kami who is even higher than Korin and the God of the Earth. Then after that we find out about King Kai. Then after that we find out he's only the North Kai, and there's 3 other Kai's including a Grand Kai looking over each segment of the universe. Then we find out about Supreme Kaioshin and we think he's the head of the universe. Then we find out he was only 1 of 4 Supreme Kai's who were killed by Majin Buu. Then we find out about the Kai even above them all who Buu absorbed to become fat.

Then we find out about Beerus and Whis. Then we find out out Champa. Then we find out there are Kai's from other universes as well.

When you stop to think about it, its actually pretty good world building. We're introduced to each one of these people in each arc and they generally build up from the one before as a higher importance. And you get an understanding of how the whole Dragonball universe actually works. I also really like how each one is more important and stronger than the last.

[Polyphase Avatron]

I would agree with you on that.

[B]

This is stemming from the "continue indefinitely" thread, but this 100% part of the case for including Toriyama in new DB stories. For all the new stuff GT tried, it still stayed in the realm of outer space. Toriyama is a genius; the Buu arc and Battle of Gods/Super are separated by about 20 years and yet that progression couldn't feel more natural, as if no time had passed.

[ekrolo2]

I actually think Dragon Ball feels really small, at least in the context of the manga and somewhat less in the anime. Earth seems like a big, interesting world until all it's mysticism gets explained away with "it's all aliens!" and the entire planet becomes a series of towns interspersed in a gargantuan, fuck off expanse of interchangeable wastelands.

Pretty much everything relevant for U7 either happens on Earth or Namek or the Sacred World of the Kai's. At least the anime filler and GT create new characters and species, making you buy that there are loads of other cool people out there who have no affiliation at all with the main cast.

[JulieYBM]

World-building is a silly crutch for creators who cannot sustain good character interaction. It's place in modern criticism has taken on a ridiculous position of authority thanks to the lowest common denominator jumping on to fads like the Marvel Cinematic Universe in attempt to appear substantive. Dragon Ball as a story does perfectly fine for itself.

[Lord Beerus]

The world building in Dragon Ball has been a bit of a mixed bag. Earth itself feels so damn small because of the lack of expansion of concepts like King Piccolo wars and the Red Ribbon Army. But on the flip side, since Toriyama came back, the Dragon Ball universe has never felt more infinite than it does now. Toriyama has introduced the concepts of Gods Of Destruction, twins universe's, Super Dragon Balls, the Galactic Patrol, Zuno, and we're still just scratching the surfacing. And as B commented, the progression feels so natural. We've gone from the Majin Boo arc to Battle Of Gods to Resurrection F to Super and I felt as though we haven't missed a beat.

[ABED]

The mysticism isn't explained away. Some aliens practice mysticism, but I fail to see how that explains things away.

As for the question at hand. I like the idea of there being what seems like every planet with sentient life, then a Kaio-sama for each of the four galaxies, and finally a Grand Kaio to oversee them. Unfortunately, it's never shown or even really explained what they do. I like the Dragon Ball world, it's fun and colorful, but it's not the most well thought out fiction world. That's fine, it is what it needs to be, though the constant "There's this higher being we didn't know existed" doesn't feel like the result of an ever unfolding story.

[ekrolo2]

The mysticism isn't explained away. Some aliens practice mysticism, but I fail to see how that explains things away.

My problem is that a lot of Earth mysticism gets diminished because it must be alien somehow. Why does Goku have a tail? Alien. Why does Kami look weird and can make Dragon Balls? Alien. Why does Tien have three eyes and the ability to grow extra arms? Alien.

It's not all diminished but it feels really weird that a place that apparently has shapeshifting school and people who're combined with various animals or weird sentient creatures has so much "Its alien!" handwaving going on.

[Doctor.]

No, excluding the potential of recent material, I think it's absolutely terrible at it. Earth feels really small, mostly because it shifted to aliens too quickly before we had enough time to explore the planet. That way, like ekrolo said, it just feels like a bunch of cities with a bunch of wastelands in-between. It doesn't help that around the Namek arc, and beyond, most of the magical elements of Earth and stuff were completely gone. And the universe is something so big, yet we only explored Earth, Namek and the planet of the Kaioshins. And the last two of which look exactly the fucking same wherever you go, with little or unexplored lore.

[ABED]

The mysticism isn't explained away. Some aliens practice mysticism, but I fail to see how that explains things away.

My problem is that a lot of Earth mysticism gets diminished because it must be alien somehow. Why does Goku have a tail? Alien. Why does Kami look weird and can make Dragon Balls? Alien. Why does Tien have three eyes and the ability to grow extra arms? Alien.

It's not all diminished but it feels really weird that a place that apparently has shapeshifting school and people who're combined with various animals or weird sentient creatures has so much "Its alien!" handwaving going on.

Gotcha, though Kami making the DB's is still mystical in nature. He just happens to be a different species. I like a good mix. Generally speakinig, I'm not the biggest fan of mysticism in storytelling, so some of it being explained as being alien in nature was a pleasant surprise. Still, I can certainly understand why someone might be annoyed (is that the right word) when Tenshinhan's origin is "explained" as "he's part alien". That's the one that I didn't care for as it feels very throw away and of little consequence.

I think the Earth feeling small is just a consequence of seeing the larger universe. It seems very much like when you get more familiar with something, it feels smaller. For instance, i don't know if anyone else had the same experience, but I felt my high school was huge and I felt overwhelmed by it. By graduation, that place felt much smaller because I was so familiar with it. The DB world quickly became a place with interstellar travel, so when you travel such vast distances, I think even for the audience, the familiar settings begin to feel smaller.

[Adamant]

The mysticism isn't explained away. Some aliens practice mysticism, but I fail to see how that explains things away.

My problem is that a lot of Earth mysticism gets diminished because it must be alien somehow. Why does Goku have a tail? Alien. Why does Kami look weird and can make Dragon Balls? Alien. Why does Tien have three eyes and the ability to grow extra arms? Alien.

It's not all diminished but it feels really weird that a place that apparently has shapeshifting school and people who're combined with various animals or weird sentient creatures has so much "Its alien!" handwaving going on.

It's not handwaving, though.
Goku has a tail because he's not really human, he's a member of a race of humanoid monkey-men that also have a number of other special characteristics.
Piccolo is a demon, the personification of the evil in God's heart, which God expelled when he made the shift from being a normal person to being God.
Ginyu is a mutant with the power to swap his "self" with anyone he wishes by saying a specific word.
Babidi is a full-blown wizard that can force people with evil thoughts to do his bidding.

All of these four are ALSO from various non-Earth planets, but that doesn't change the fact that they are what they are. Why is that such a major thing to get hung up on?

[ekrolo2]

The mysticism isn't explained away. Some aliens practice mysticism, but I fail to see how that explains things away.

My problem is that a lot of Earth mysticism gets diminished because it must be alien somehow. Why does Goku have a tail? Alien. Why does Kami look weird and can make Dragon Balls? Alien. Why does Tien have three eyes and the ability to grow extra arms? Alien.

It's not all diminished but it feels really weird that a place that apparently has shapeshifting school and people who're combined with various animals or weird sentient creatures has so much "Its alien!" handwaving going on.

It's not handwaving, though.
Goku has a tail because he's not really human, he's a member of a race of humanoid monkey-men that also have a number of other special characteristics.
Piccolo is a demon, the personification of the evil in God's heart, which God expelled when he made the shift from being a normal person to being God.
Ginyu is a mutant with the power to swap his "self" with anyone he wishes by saying a specific word.
Babidi is a full-blown wizard that can force people with evil thoughts to do his bidding.

All of these four are ALSO from various non-Earth planets, but that doesn't change the fact that they are what they are. Why is that such a major thing to get hung up on?

Goku wasn't originally an alien, he was just a kid with a tail which wasn't that weird with people like Oolong and other animal-human hybrids. Kami & Piccolo are aliens, they've got a mysticism belonging to their own culture but the Dragon Balls were originally something unique to Earth, not an offshoot of alien culture that ended up here. Ginyu's not from Earth, Babidi isn't either.

My point is that EVERYTHING in the Z era is from aliens. Earth has no mysticism unique to it anymore. The human & animal hybrids get phased out almost completely, the things we thought were of human and magical origin are retconned to being from space and what magical aspects emerge later are exclusively from aliens. Hell, even Tien's three eyes and ability to grow extra limbs is (needlessly) retconned into being another alien thing. It makes Earth seem like a bland place with nothing special of its own.

I'm not saying the reveals for Goku and Kami didn't allow for a lot of good stuff to come out of them, they did, but it also had an unintended side-effect that makes Earth progressively more bland and boring as opposed to the weird and interesting place it is in DB.

[Gaffer Tape]

RE: Adamant

Because it diminishes the characteristics of Dragon Ball's earth. When those features cease to be native to earth and are instead imported from other planets, earth can no longer claim it as a characteristic of itself. So by the end of the series, Dragon Ball's earth is a much more "normal" place than it used to be written as. In fact, that becomes a source of humor later on, that all of these super powered people exist, and the world just doesn't understand. But the series seems to forget that a lot of those super powered people are natives of earth, and that not 20 years earlier, their feats were seen as "incredible" not "impossible." Everything that made Dragon Ball's earth interesting is either retconned to be not from earth or just dropped almost entirely (such as animal-type people). So earth is just this mundane place, with most of the cool stuff either being in outer space or the other world.

Also, Goku is really a human, even when he's an alien, because that's how Toriyama uses the word "human."

[ABED]

While Fortuneteller Baba isn't that prevalent, she's a witch from Earth. Muten Roshi's long life is clearly mystical.

but it also had an unintended side-effect that makes Earth progressively more bland and boring as opposed to the weird and interesting place it is in DB.

I can see why someone would think that but I don't think so. It's now just a melting pots of a lot of different things regardless of where it originated. You can look at it as Earth is unique in that a lot of different beings, both mystical and alien, seem attracted to Earth. Earth is still a weird wonderful place in Z. It has anthropomorphic beings, it has dinosaurs, flying cars, but yet it still uses landlines.

[LightBing]

Yes and no.
Taking into account that Dragon Ball is mostly a superficial series, it did a good job until the Android Arc. Before that arc, almost everything was connected in an interesting way.
Goku meets Master Roshi - who's super important for World building -, he trains with him and learns about the TB. Later the connections are made in Karin Tower and with Tsufu Sennin, which greatly amplify the storytelling. A huge factor in that TB was the automatic rivalry, just because of that past and our knowledge of Master Roshi.
Piccolo Daimao Arc uses it again to introduce God, making further connections with Master Roshi and Tsufu Sennin, students of Mutaito. Notice that the last two fighters against Daimao were Goku and Tenshinhan, the strongest students of each school. It's the legacy of Mutaito, a character that ultimately doesn't exist but contributes to the World.
Besides some other stuff like Baba that I failed to mention.
The Saiyan Arc and Namek Arc do the same, beginning with Goku and exploring his Saiyan heritage, ending with an epic battle which earned it's status.

The Android Arc ends this cycle, we have the connection with the RR. The problem is that the source Dr.Gero, is a faceless man who we don't have connection with. Then all the villains of the arc become their own thing, isolated from everything besides Cell, literally being a bunch of know people joined together.
It also stops the growth of the newly discovered Universe by forcing the characters to stay put.
Just as the arc starts, we have Goku coming from a different planet with a new technique. Revealing to us the untapped potential of the Universe, yet we never go there.

Boo Arc tries to start anew somewhat, it kinda resembles the Piccolo Arc without the early connections. Instead just introducing new stuff and feeding from that.

BoG is a return to the roots, connecting Beerus with the past and using him to open doors. It wasn't done perfectly. It's still pretty decent and opens great opportunities for the series.

The biggest problem with Dragon Ball is the lost opportunities, after the RR Arc, Earth had huge potential to grow. The same way the Universe had after Namek. Unfortunately sometimes Dragon Ball just rushes on ahead.

[ABED]

LightBing, I'm not sure what that has to do with world building. World building has more to do with things like culture in a story. Tolkien was unparalleled in his world building. He created numerous cultures, their histories, languages, dialects, etc. It's not merely limted to culture, but I think you get the point. Toriyama doesn't do that, but at least with the anthropomorphism, he's fairly consistent. It's very commonplace and I can't recall offhand where a character was like "You're a talking animal!"

[Kuririn Fan]

For what it is, it's pretty good actually.
I want animal people back!

[Cure Dragon 255]

They never left, the King of the world is an animal and he can be seen as late as the Buu Saga. And what is Oolong?

[Kuririn Fan]

King of the world is seen once after Daimao arc and Oolong is a regular cast member since the beginning so he doesn't really count. I mean the animal people that live with regular people like it's perfectly normal.

[ABED]

They never left, the King of the world is an animal and he can be seen as late as the Buu Saga. And what is Oolong?

I think the point was not that they don't exist, it's simply that they aren't as prevalent. The King was never an important character, but Oolong was more prevalent in DB than Z.