Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Lord Beerus]

So did Piccolo really jump to SSJ God tier after six months of training with Gohan? Because the NEP seems to heavily imply it.

[Khin]

So did Piccolo really jump to SSJ God tier after six8 months of training with Gohan? Because the NEP seems to heavily imply it.

Seems likely to be the case.But the Namekian Book of Legends powerup is still a possibility.

[Cipher]

Seems likely to be the case.But the Namekian Book of Legends powerup is still a possibility.

Why couldn't Frost just be around Namek Freeza level?

Why is everyone assuming Goku was fighting at full base power, especially when he used a weaker form of Super Saiyan?

[Khin]

Why couldn't Frost just be around Namek Freeza level?

His Assault form was fighting evenly with Saiyan Beyond God Goku.SBG Goku >>>> Super Vegetto.Unless you think Base Goku (Pre God) =< Saiyan Beyond God Goku.

[Cipher]

His Assault form was fighting evenly with Saiyan Beyond God Goku.

That's assuming Goku's fighting at his full power for no reason, though. It's pretty clear he's taking the whole thing fairly casually, including his use of regular Super Saiyan.

Not saying that's not the case, but I'm not sure why everyone's suddenly forgetting fighters in this series have always used smaller portions of their power for sport.

[supercat]

Seems likely to be the case.But the Namekian Book of Legends powerup is still a possibility.

Why couldn't Frost just be around Namek Freeza level?

Why is everyone assuming Goku was fighting at full base power, especially when he used a weaker form of Super Saiyan?

Because that would make things overly complicated. Unless something of that context was specifically mentioned or at the very least strongly implied, there's no reason to go above and beyond to formulate far-fetched hypothetical scenarios.

Piccolo is likely notably stronger than Base Goku (Champa / RoF) and worlds above anything the Buu arc has to dish out; and yes, that includes SSJ Vegetto.

Piccolo / Frost > Base Goku / Vegeta > Final Form Frieza / Base Goku / Vegeta (RoF) > SSJ Vegetto > First Form Frieza > / = Buuhan

[Khin]

Not saying that's not the case, but I'm not sure why everyone's suddenly forgetting fighters in this series have always used smaller portions of their power for sport.

Current Super Saiyan Goku is stronger than SSG Goku,unless Frost is so durable that he didn't get obliterated by a single punch by Goku,there's no way Frost is only Namek Freeza level.And even if he's only at that tier.Piccolo could one shot him with no effort whatsoever,yet by the looks of it,i won't be an easy victory for Piccolo.Goku also noted that Piccolo got far stronger than before.

[dbzfan7]

When Saitama's training makes more sense than Super PL's, something is horribly wrong

[Lionel]

You have to wonder where this great improvement of Piccolo's strength was during the Buu arc when it could have been put to some much needed use instead of relying on young inexperienced children to carry the protection of the Earth. Anyway, I too put Piccolo above SSJG Goku now. It's absolutely insane, but the proof is in the pudding. He's actively dodging and taking hits from Frost. Although he still needs to rely on a technique with a considerable charging time to have a chance of winning.

[Bullza]

When considering the fact that....

1. Beerus at 10% (aka a 1) was more than strong enough to be able to defeat SSJ3 Goku, Gohan and a angry SSJ2 Vegeta with a finger poke.

2. Goku in base form is much stronger than Beerus at 10%.

3. The people fighting against base Goku like Frieza, Botamo and Frost aren't collapsing the moment he lays a hand on them and in fact are actually able to hold their own to an extent.

Is more than enough to convince me that these characters are far far stronger than SSJ3 tier let alone Namek saga Frieza.

And being that Piccolo looks to be able to hold his own against Frost then the same goes for him too.

[ssbgoku]

It seems Piccolo really jumped in power. So far my power level scale would be:

10% beerus(expected full power by goku) piccolo~5% beerus(expected full power by goku)~ buu arc ssj vegeto(full power) > ssj2 rage vegeta

Botamo seems to be at least ssj2 tier, but with his durability he is much more tough opponent.

Frost well in the final form would be a bit higher or around rof final form frieeza.

It seems Piccolo will take advantage of stamina issue for frost, or frost not taking him seriously, just like he did to goku. Anyway how ssj goku run out of stamina in such fast pace, bullshit or nerf right away.

[apex_pretador]

Botamo and Frost seem pretty weak. Since I don't know what's the deal with SSJ Goku, it's hard to make conclusions. This is, at the moment, really hard to guess. I hope they give us some power scaling lines.
For now I have Botamo weaker than SSJ2 tier, 1st form Frost between SSJ2 and SSJ3 tier and Assault Form Frost at SSJ3 tier.
Final Form Frost appears to be a huge boost, still I didn't see Goku take any damage. It's likely he didn't need to go SSJ to face Final Form Frost.

Botamo can't be placed, but frost is already a lot stronger than trained freeza. He was dominating goku in his 3rd form & freeza couldn't do it to a weaker goku in his final form.

SS goku was already SSG level before training with whis , then add whis training, whis ROSAT , Dende ROSAT & sparring with vegeta all the time & he must be a good bit above SSG atleast.

Botamo seemed a lot more resistant to Goku's attacks compared to the manga. He just took the Kamehameha instead of avoiding it. Makes me wonder how he could be beaten outside of tournament rules.

1. Freeze him then break him

2. Grab him then rip him apart

Frost in his third form looked to be on par on stronger than Goku in base form. He looks to be more powerful than Frieza in his final form possibly.

Goku went Super Saiyan and then at first seemed to easily have the upperhand over Frost in his final form which to me says there is a huge difference between Goku's base form and Super Saiyan form. If Goku was supposed to be as strong as SSJG as a SSJ then this is more evidence I'd say of his base form being weaker than SSJG.

What I think - Frost first form < freeza final form < Frost third form < Frost final form < SS goku < gold freeza

Piccolo seems to be able to put up a good fight against Frost in his final form which suggests that he's possibly inbetween Goku's base and Super Saiyan form.

Which he has always been.

I know we should wait but where would you put piccolo as of now?

Stronger than third form frost.


The relative difference between SS goku & Piccolo same as BoG arc (pre god)

SS goku = 50
Piccolo = 10
Base goku = 1

[ssbgoku]

What I think - Frost first form < freeza final form < Frost third form < Frost final form < SS goku < gold freeza

Well It may looked like third form frost got little upper hand on base goku, but seeing goku just brush away dirt after getting up from ground I guess goku still didn't fight at full power in base.

First form frieza < First form frost < third form frost =< final form frieza < final form frost < golden frieza

Well It is just so shame to not see golden frieza in beerus team along others ;p. Just looking at everyone from universe 7 team and universe 6 team shows how they are alike:

buu - botamo
piccolo - magnetta(robot)
frieza - frost
vegeta - cabba
monaca - hit

Just one Saiyan more on universe 7 team.

[saunasolmu]

I honestly believe they're not even going to give any explanation for Piccolo's power boost.

The power levels are just a mess.

[LightBing]

Botamo can't be placed, but frost is already a lot stronger than trained freeza. He was dominating goku in his 3rd form & freeza couldn't do it to a weaker goku in his final form.

SS goku was already SSG level before training with whis , then add whis training, whis ROSAT , Dende ROSAT & sparring with vegeta all the time & he must be a good bit above SSG atleast.

I disagree that Assault Frost was dominating Goku. In both the manga and anime he attacked Goku, who gets up, cleaning the dust off in the anime and stretching in the manga. He wasn't damaged at all. Goku didn't make any effort during his participation in the tournament.

Goku turned SSJ to force Frost to transform into his best. Couldn't he just power up in base to scare Frost? Yeah he could, but it seems like a perfect excuse to go SSJ even if isn't needed.
Which is why I believe there's some possibility that Final Form Frost could be very weak.

It's more likely that the characters are stronger than I'm saying; it's not certain. That's why I'm keeping an open mind.

[singsing]

Hold on I haven't had time to watch the episode yet. Why is everyone saying Frost is below Goku and then saying Frost beats Goku?

[apex_pretador]

What I think - Frost first form < freeza final form < Frost third form < Frost final form < SS goku < gold freeza

Well It may looked like third form frost got little upper hand on base goku, but seeing goku just brush away dirt after getting up from ground I guess goku still didn't fight at full power in base.

First form frieza < First form frost < third form frost =< final form frieza < final form frost < golden frieza
.

Botamo can't be placed, but frost is already a lot stronger than trained freeza. He was dominating goku in his 3rd form & freeza couldn't do it to a weaker goku in his final form.

SS goku was already SSG level before training with whis , then add whis training, whis ROSAT , Dende ROSAT & sparring with vegeta all the time & he must be a good bit above SSG atleast.

I disagree that Assault Frost was dominating Goku. In both the manga and anime he attacked Goku, who gets up, cleaning the dust off in the anime and stretching in the manga. He wasn't damaged at all. Goku didn't make any effort during his participation in the tournament.

Goku turned SSJ to force Frost to transform into his best. Couldn't he just power up in base to scare Frost? Yeah he could, but it seems like a perfect excuse to go SSJ even if isn't needed.
Which is why I believe there's some possibility that Final Form Frost could be very weak.

It's more likely that the characters are stronger than I'm saying; it's not certain. That's why I'm keeping an open mind.

Third form frost basically not just tanked KameHameHa , but also flew through it like air.

Base goku brushed off his attacks but frost was dominating. Most likely he was trying not to go too hard on goku. Frost also "brushed off" hits from SS goku.

SS goku being 1.5x stronger , 2x stronger , or even 4x stronger than frost final form works perfectly fine, but this goku is already stronger than SSG, so frost is no joke. It is no vegetto vs buuhan type gap, but more like goku had to try.


On goku not being serious in base, the same can be said about his fight against final form freeza. IMO, the implication is heavy that frost 3rd form > base goku > Final form freeza

[apex_pretador]

Hold on I haven't had time to watch the episode yet. Why is everyone saying Frost is below Goku and then saying Frost beats Goku?

Spoiler:

SS goku completely overwhelmed frost, but suddenly felt unconscious while blocking frost's hits.

[Noah]

Things for me could work like this:

SSGSS Goku/Vegeta (Post RoSaT) > Golden Freeza > Final Form Freeza > Super Vegetto > Base (God Ki) Goku/Vegeta > SSJ Goku/Vegeta > Super Boo-han > Frost/Piccolo > Assault Mode Frost > Base (Normal Ki) Goku/Vegeta > First Form Frost/Botamo


I know is confusing as hell, but I think Goku and Vegeta learned in RoSaT how to turn God Ki ON and OFF or whatever...

[Vice]

Things for me could work like this:

SSGSS Goku/Vegeta (Post RoSaT) > Golden Freeza > Final Form Freeza > Super Vegetto > Base (God Ki) Goku/Vegeta > SSJ Goku/Vegeta > Super Boo-han > Frost/Piccolo > Assault Mode Frost > Base (Normal Ki) Goku/Vegeta > First Form Frost/Botamo


I know is confusing as hell, but I think Goku and Vegeta learned in RoSaT how to turn God Ki ON and OFF or whatever...

Yeah it's confusing as hell and only serves as a means to downplay Piccolo for no reason at all.