Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[apex_pretador]

This is what I'll go with for now.

Vados - 15.5
Whis. - 15
Beerus - 10
Champa - 9.3

Golden Frieza - 7.8
SSJB Goku (U6) - 7.2
SSJB Vegeta (U6) 7.2
SSJ Goku (U6) - 6.6
SSJG Goku (BoG) - 6

Frost (Final Form) - 5.5
Frost (Third Form) - 3.6
Base Goku (U6) - 3.3
Base Vegeta (U6) - 3.3

Botamo - 2.7
Frieza (Final Form) - 2.6

SSJ2 Vegeta - 0.7
SSJ3 Goku - 0.5

piccolo 4.5 ?

[dbgtFO]

I'm currently thinking:

Vados: ?
Whis: 15.
Beerus: 10.
Champa: 9.99.
Monaka: 9.5

SSGSS Goku/Vegeta(Champa): 8.4.
Golden Freeza: 8.

SSGSS Goku/Vegeta(Freeza): 7.2.
70% Beerus/SBG Goku/Vegeta(Champa): 7.
SSG/SBG Goku(Freeza): 6.

Final Form Freeza: 4.

10% Beerus: 1.
SS2 Rageta: 0.2.
-Galick Gun: 1.

SS3 Goku(Champa): 0.12
SS2 Goku(Champa): 0.03
SS1 Goku(Champa): 0.015
Final Form Frost: 0.001.
Piccolo(Champa): 0.0007.
Assault Form Frost: 0.0005.
Base Goku(Champa): 0.0003.

Because if Gohan can bullshit his way from base to SS to Ultimate, then Goku too can have two base forms
Also by my logic this would mean that Beyond God Goku's SS is evolved into SSGSS, rather than being SBG Goku < SS Goku < SSGSS Goku.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

in FnF , there isn't anything to indicate that SSB is a "small" boost. It was implied to be incredible boost.

I didn't say it was a small boost, there is no doubt that it's a big boost. But it's nowhere near as huge as x50.

In BoG , i think it can be explained by the fact that he was SSG in base a few minutes ago, & after the battle, when all his stress is gone, he needs to go SS to access his SSG powers.

FnF Base Goku is described as a Saiyan that has surpassed God in video-games, so he is stronger than he was as a Super Saiyan God against Beerus.

No indication that he was weaker than SS gohan in buu arc.

He is weaker than Kaioshin, but then again, Kaioshin was surprised that mortals surpassed him once he got a glimpse to SS2 Goku against Yakon, so this places Kaioshin above the Super Saiyans, especially if you believe that Gohan was a Super Saiyan 2 against Dabra, Boo, and when he drew the Z-Sword (as I do). So, you are right, unless if you believe that Gohan was a Super Saiyan in these cases.

He could still be 10 times weaker than SS goku & be a threat to frost.

Of course. But if he is a threat to Final Form Frost, then he should be stronger than Assault Form Frost, who was stronger than base Goku. If this base Goku was using the power of SSG, then this would mean that Piccolo has gotten to a level beyond SSG in a few days, since he was only par with a weakened Ultimate Gohan.

[ZombieVito]

Of course. But if he is a threat to Final Form Frost, then he should be stronger than Assault Form Frost, who was stronger than base Goku. If this base Goku was using the power of SSG, then this would mean that Piccolo has gotten to a level beyond SSG in a few days, since he was only par with a weakened Ultimate Gohan.

We don't know this. For all we know this is a stronger Ultimate Gohan since he was actually excited to test out his training results.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

We don't know this. For all we know this is a stronger Ultimate Gohan since he was actually excited to test out his training results.

He has grown stronger since FnF, and his hairstyle has changed (which could indicate that he is getting closer to his old power), but his eyes aren't fully outlined like Ultimate Gohan's. So unless we get an indication that this is an inconsistently drawn Ultimate Gohan, this isn't Ultimate Gohan.

[Bullza]

Goku and Vegeta don't surpass Freeza after 3 years in the RoSaT?

Ehhh it's possible, I suppose probable but Vegeta said they wouldn't really improve all that much and Frieza was a decent bit a head of the two.

70% Beerus was 17% stronger than SSJG Goku. I'd say there was a bigger gap between Golden Frieza and SSJB Goku, people might convince me otherwise but I thought Frieza beat him quicker and easier.

If Goku and Vegeta got about 20% stronger in those 3 years then they might be stronger but 20% is a good chunk and seems to contradict what Vegeta said.

I'm going with them getting just 10% stronger so not enough to close the gap between them and Frieza.

piccolo 4.5 ?

Possibly, it'll all depend. Will Frost be weaker fighting Piccolo as opposed to Goku because his energy has drained? Will Piccolo lose badly or lose after a good effort.

He'll likely between 4-5 or so though.

[ROCKYIII]

SSJ goku > 4th frost > 3rd form frost = Base god goku > 4th form Frieza > 1st form Frieza > ssj gohan, gotenks, etc

And now piccolo is gonna do anything vs frost? This is really starting to show its a children's show and this thread shouldn't exist (a thread based on nonexistent logic)

[namekiansaiyan]

SSJ goku > 4th frost > 3rd form frost = Base god goku > 4th form Frieza > 1st form Frieza > ssj gohan, gotenks, etc

And now piccolo is gonna do anything vs frost? This is really starting to show its a children's show and this thread shouldn't exist (a thread based on nonexistent logic)

This is not a kids show, Piccolo has been training with Gohan for months he has to be between assult and final form Frost and probably closer to final form for his Special Beam Cannon to work.

[dbzfan7]

This is really starting to show its a children's show.

Dragon Ball is a children's show. It's for 10 year olds, but can be enjoyed by all ages.

[Lord Beerus]

This is not a kids show, .

Oh yes it is. And it's been so for the last 30 years.

[Neon Z]

We don't know this. For all we know this is a stronger Ultimate Gohan since he was actually excited to test out his training results.

He has grown stronger since FnF, and his hairstyle has changed (which could indicate that he is getting closer to his old power), but his eyes aren't fully outlined like Ultimate Gohan's. So unless we get an indication that this is an inconsistently drawn Ultimate Gohan, this isn't Ultimate Gohan.

The outline was just a visual style though. It's specifically stated that Ultimate Gohan's appearance didn't change at all from base Gohan's once he activates the power in the Buu Saga.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

The outline was just a visual style though. It's specifically stated that Ultimate Gohan's appearance didn't change at all from base Gohan's once he activates the power in the Buu Saga.

On the contrary, it was stated that his appearance did in fact change.


Chapter: 497 (DBZ 303), P4.1
Piccolo: “Is-is that Gohan…!? No…Something’s different about him…His features are a little different…And he has a different type of ki than before…His softness has vanished too…That’s why I couldn’t tell it was him…”

[emperior]

The outline was just a visual style though. It's specifically stated that Ultimate Gohan's appearance didn't change at all from base Gohan's once he activates the power in the Buu Saga.

On the contrary, it was stated that his appearance did in fact change.


Chapter: 497 (DBZ 303), P4.1
Piccolo: “Is-is that Gohan…!? No…Something’s different about him…His features are a little different…And he has a different type of ki than before…His softness has vanished too…That’s why I couldn’t tell it was him…”

In fact Ultimate form is just Super Saiyan with black hair and eyes. Gohan looks angry when in Ultimate form, as he does when he is SSJ/SSJ2.

[ekrolo2]

On the contrary, it was stated that his appearance did in fact change.


Chapter: 497 (DBZ 303), P4.1
Piccolo: “Is-is that Gohan…!? No…Something’s different about him…His features are a little different…And he has a different type of ki than before…His softness has vanished too…That’s why I couldn’t tell it was him…”

In fact Ultimate form is just Super Saiyan with black hair and eyes. Gohan looks angry when in Ultimate form, as he does when he is SSJ/SSJ2.

It's not a Super Saiyan form. Any character who undergoes Old Kai's ritual can get it regardless of species and attain the same state Gohan had. Also, the way Toriyama likes to draw eyes for when characters are angry mimics the way he draws the default eyes of villains as a visual way to show ferocity, it's hardly a Super Saiyan exclusive trait.

[Hugo Boss]

Come to think of it, isn't Gohan using his Ultimate form in the oppening of Dragon Ball Super? It looks slightly different from when he was training with Piccolo. When Gohan uses Ultimate his features ressemble Vegeta's, while in his normal form he looks like Goku.

[emperior]

On the contrary, it was stated that his appearance did in fact change.


Chapter: 497 (DBZ 303), P4.1
Piccolo: “Is-is that Gohan…!? No…Something’s different about him…His features are a little different…And he has a different type of ki than before…His softness has vanished too…That’s why I couldn’t tell it was him…”

In fact Ultimate form is just Super Saiyan with black hair and eyes. Gohan looks angry when in Ultimate form, as he does when he is SSJ/SSJ2.

It's not a Super Saiyan form. Any character who undergoes Old Kai's ritual can get it regardless of species and attain the same state Gohan had. Also, the way Toriyama likes to draw eyes for when characters are angry mimics the way he draws the default eyes of villains as a visual way to show ferocity, it's hardly a Super Saiyan exclusive trait.

We don't know what would happen if another species underwent Old Kai's ritual, we just know Gohan needs to go SSJ to use his ultimate form. This is what Old Kai told him.

[ekrolo2]

We don't know what would happen if another species underwent Old Kai's ritual, we just know Gohan needs to go SSJ to use his ultimate form. This is what Old Kai told him.

[/quote]

Chapter: 496 (DBZ 302), P4.1-2
Gohan: “Ho-how can I turn into this mightiest of warriors!?”
Elder Kaioshin: “You transform into that Super whatever-it-is a lot, right? You’ll be fine if you just get the gist of that, and throw in a kiai.”
Gohan: “The gist of Super Saiyan…I-I got it…!”

Chapter: 496 (DBZ 302), P7.2-3
Context: after Gohan transforms into the ‘mightiest of warriors’
Goku: “It re-really is incredible…It’s super-duper…! Absolutely unbelievable…Your appearance has hardly changed…And you ain’t even a Super Saiyan…Yet you’ve been taken to su-such an extreme…”
Elder Kaioshin: “Hmph, transforming isn’t good. That Super whatever-its-called is the wrong way [of doing things]…”

The Viz manga has Old Kai say a similar thing.

Old Kai: You turn into that Super whatever often enough. Fire it up like that!

Gohan: Just like turning Super Saiyan... Okay.... I can do that...

Post power-up.

Goku: I don't believe it! You haven't changed on the outside... You're not even Super Saiyan...

Old Kai: Feh! Transforming isn't everything. That Super whatever is just show-biz.

So yeah, all Old Kai is telling him is to remember what it's like to turn SSJ and tells him to power up with that sensation in mind. It's not a Super Saiyan form, it's all the power you can ever achieve in your life and then some becoming available to you in your base form.

[buutenks]

Well either frost different forms only increase his power by a very small percentage or current goku's base form is nothing like the preivous arcs, aka he is using much less power in base form and can multiply his power allot by going ssj and uses his full power once in ssgss.

That would explain why 2nd form frost could keep up with base goku, yet his final form totally got wrecked by ssj goku.

[Khin]

For now,my list would be...

Spoiler:

Super Saiyan God Goku : 4.5
-- SSj (Post God) : 4.5
-- Base (Post God) : 3

Beerus : 1
-- Against God Goku : 5
-- Unseen Full Power : 10

It should be noted that i don't follow the 6-10-15 statement

Spoiler:

Goku : 3.75
-- Super Saiyan Blue : 7.5

Freeza : 3.75
-- Golden Form : 8.5

Spoiler:

Goku : 4.5
-- Super Saiyan : 6.75
-- Super Saiyan Blue : 9

Frost : Impossible to define
-- Assault Form : 4.5
-- Final Form : 5.4

Botamo : Impossible to define

Hit : At the very least stronger than SSj Goku (He looks unimpressed)

Cabba : At the very least stronger than Base Goku.

This line implies it.

Minute: 4
Context Goku is unable to faze Botamo.
Champa: "He's just as pathetic as he looked when I saw him at Beerus' palace."
Cabba: "He and I are both Saiyans, but to think Universes 6 and 7 differ this much..."

Significance: Cabba is surprised at how poorly Goku's faring against Botamo, which implies that he could do better.

Spoiler:

Super Saiyan (Post God) = 1.5x Base
Super Saiyan Blue = 2x Base

[apex_pretador]

Well either frost different forms only increase his power by a very small percentage or current goku's base form is nothing like the preivous arcs, aka he is using much less power in base form and can multiply his power allot by going ssj and uses his full power once in ssgss.

That would explain why 2nd form frost could keep up with base goku, yet his final form totally got wrecked by ssj goku.

Base goku was doing good against a few % freeza, but that was even.
SS goku beat down 100% freeza

SS was, is , and has always been , a large boost.


Someone posted here that the statement of
"base beyond god goku being >= SSG"
is mistranslation

So, base goku did nothing, except having a little upperhand on freeza.