Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[apex_pretador]

An opposite reasoning remains absolutely valid. He has never used his Saiyan Beyond God aura, as its done in RoF

there was nothing mentioned about "Saiyan beyond god"
it has always been base or super saiyan, where SSB was used against freeza.

[Gorou]

An opposite reasoning remains absolutely valid. He has never used his Saiyan Beyond God aura, as its done in RoF

there was nothing mentioned about "Saiyan beyond god"
it has always been base or super saiyan, where SSB was used against freeza.

Saiyan beyond god = Base with God Ki = SSJGod (same power according to Beerus) --- subsequent transformation = SSJB

Saiyan base = base Ki --- subsequent transformation = SSJ

[apex_pretador]

Saiyan beyond god = Base with God Ki = SSJGod (same power according to Beerus) --- subsequent transformation = SSJB

When did beerus state such a thing? Hell, when was the term "saiyan beyond god" even mentioned?

[Gorou]

Saiyan beyond god = Base with God Ki = SSJGod (same power according to Beerus) --- subsequent transformation = SSJB

When did beerus state such a thing? Hell, when was the term "saiyan beyond god" even mentioned?

Beerus to Goku, after he lost his SSJGod stage: Your power is not decreased

[ekrolo2]

Super goes against the film by having Goku's power only become undetectable AKA God Ki when he turns SSJB in the F Saga. The movies pretty much treat God Ki as his default, Super does not. In the show, Goku's base form is just a lot stronger than it used to be but still fueled by regular, detectable ki.

[apex_pretador]

Saiyan beyond god = Base with God Ki = SSJGod (same power according to Beerus) --- subsequent transformation = SSJB

When did beerus state such a thing? Hell, when was the term "saiyan beyond god" even mentioned?

Beerus to Goku, after he lost his SSJGod stage: Your power is not decreased

that was SUPER SAIYAN goku, not base goku

[Gorou]

Super goes against the film by having Goku's power only become undetectable AKA God Ki when he turns SSJB in the F Saga. The movies pretty much treat God Ki as his default, Super does not. In the show, Goku's base form is just a lot stronger than it used to be but still fueled by regular, detectable ki.

The question is: why create all this confusion?

In any case, he has not committed itself to the tournament as with Freeza (it has transform only to force him to get serious) so we not have reference points. Considering the following transformation, I remain of the view that he was only using her regular ki, without adding the God Ki.

[ZombieVito]

The term Saiyan beyond god was used in a videogame.

Goku never used god ki in base. He just became stronger because of the ritual.

That's the reason he was fighting on par with someone way stronger than Ultimate Gohan in base.

[Hugo Boss]

"Saiyan Beyond God" or "Saiyan Who Has Surpassed God" are terms used in Dragon Ball Heroes to describe Goku's form after he absorbed the power of Super Saiyan God into his body. Although in the anime we can't really tell the difference, the movies and the games seem to distinguish "Saiyan Beyond God" and "Base" forms, specially Goku's. In both forms, Goku's ki is normal and, while the movies and the games aren't clear, Super Saiyan Blue has godly ki in the anime. Super Saiyan has normal ki and while we have nothing saying godly ki users will always have superior power, we know that Golden Freeza had normal ki in the movie, while the anime isn't clear about that.

[Gorou]

Goku never used god ki in base. He just became stronger because of the ritual.

Ritual that gave him that kind of Ki. With Freeza he does not use the normal SSJ, but only SSJB, for this reason: he was already fighting in a higher level thanks to god ki.

[apex_pretador]

"Saiyan Beyond God" or "Saiyan Who Has Surpassed God" are terms used in Dragon Ball Heroes to describe Goku's form after he absorbed the power of Super Saiyan God into his body. Although in the anime we can't really tell the difference, the movies and the games seem to distinguish "Saiyan Beyond God" and "Base" forms, specially Goku's. In both forms, Goku's ki is normal and, while the movies and the games aren't clear, Super Saiyan Blue has godly ki in the anime. Super Saiyan has normal ki and while we have nothing saying godly ki users will always have superior power, we know that Golden Freeza had normal ki in the movie, while the anime isn't clear about that.

In anime, everyone sensed freeza

[ekrolo2]

The question is: why create all this confusion?

In any case, he has not committed itself to the tournament as with Freeza (it has transform only to force him to get serious) so we not have reference points. Considering the following transformation, I remain of the view that he was only using her regular ki, without adding the God Ki.

Why create all this confusion? Because the writers of Super are idiots who think they're being clever by trying to explain things they're doing a terrible job at.

that was SUPER SAIYAN goku, not base goku

A base Goku in the film who's capable of holding his own against a Beerus who's upped the ante in terms of his power & fighting ferocity. A far better performance than anything Goku pulled off in his SSJ3 form against a Beerus who isn't even trying. So yeah, Goku's power in the BoG movie, even in base form, doesn't drop to any significant degree after he reverts from SSG.

[ahill1]

The term Saiyan beyond god was used in a videogame.

Goku never used god ki in base. He just became stronger because of the ritual.

That's the reason he was fighting on par with someone way stronger than Ultimate Gohan in base.

Who said Gohan was "Ultimate Gohan" against Freeza?

Goku could very well be using part of his God Chi in base, as Gorou mentioned.

[ZombieVito]

The term Saiyan beyond god was used in a videogame.

Goku never used god ki in base. He just became stronger because of the ritual.

That's the reason he was fighting on par with someone way stronger than Ultimate Gohan in base.

Who said Gohan was "Ultimate Gohan" against Freeza?

Goku could very well be using part of his God Chi in base, as Gorou mentioned.

I believe in SSJ Gohan = His ultimate power.

[Hugo Boss]

"Saiyan Beyond God" or "Saiyan Who Has Surpassed God" are terms used in Dragon Ball Heroes to describe Goku's form after he absorbed the power of Super Saiyan God into his body. Although in the anime we can't really tell the difference, the movies and the games seem to distinguish "Saiyan Beyond God" and "Base" forms, specially Goku's. In both forms, Goku's ki is normal and, while the movies and the games aren't clear, Super Saiyan Blue has godly ki in the anime. Super Saiyan has normal ki and while we have nothing saying godly ki users will always have superior power, we know that Golden Freeza had normal ki in the movie, while the anime isn't clear about that.

In anime, everyone sensed freeza

Oh, I slipped. It was the opposite.

[ekrolo2]

The term Saiyan beyond god was used in a videogame.

Goku never used god ki in base. He just became stronger because of the ritual.

That's the reason he was fighting on par with someone way stronger than Ultimate Gohan in base.

Who said Gohan was "Ultimate Gohan" against Freeza?

Goku could very well be using part of his God Chi in base, as Gorou mentioned.

I believe in SSJ Gohan = His ultimate power.

You're probably not wrong, Gohan's base is still above Piccolo and with an x50 boost, if he's not right at his Ultimate power, he's damn near close to it.

[ZombieVito]

Who said Gohan was "Ultimate Gohan" against Freeza?

Goku could very well be using part of his God Chi in base, as Gorou mentioned.

I believe in SSJ Gohan = His ultimate power.

You're probably not wrong, Gohan's base is still above Piccolo and with an x50 boost, if he's not right at his Ultimate power, he's damn near close to it.

I don't see it as a multiplier. Gohan never said he got weaker, only that he couldn't "put out" his full power. My interpretation is that in order to access his full power (ultimate power up) he needs to become a Super Saiyan but because he hasn't been training his body can't stand the stress of the transformation.

[Gorou]

The basic sayan exceed Piccolo already from the buu saga

[ekrolo2]

The basic sayan exceed Piccolo already from the buu saga

Unless they made him worthless fodder in their base forms as of the Cell Games, Vegeta's comment makes this impossible to work.

[Gorou]

The basic sayan exceed Piccolo already from the buu saga

Unless they made him worthless fodder in their base forms as of the Cell Games, Vegeta's comment makes this impossible to work.

The problem is that Toriyama he never cared about the internal consistency. The characters, often, become strong only because it is necessary that they become. You guys really believe that Toriyama has in mind the multiplier? He forgets its same characters.

However, regardless of the inconsistencies, through various statements Toriyama wanted to imply that the basic sayan are superior to Piccolo (maybe they were already at the Cell Games)