Kuririn Fan wrote:Gohan has the highest potential, because he's the best of both worlds (human - saiyan , fighter - scholar). He's the best, much better than Goku and Vegeta.
Yes, I hope they will do something with Gohan... At this moment Gohan is at an conference, doing its scholar work... I would like to see his fighters side, but not as weak like in RoF.
Bullza wrote:I'm talking about the God power. The power he supposedly absorbed which boosted his base and SSJ power to a completely different level. Is that something they can tap into at will perhaps.
It'd clear a couple things up possibly, like Goku being able to fight with Beerus and stop his attack at one point but then Whis comparing his power to Beerus' as a staff to a gigantic tree.
Base Goku was stronger than Frieza in his final form. Piccolo was significantly weaker than Frieza in his first form.
Goku then trained 8 months on Beerus' planet with Whis' special weights, then 3 years in the ROSAT.
Piccolo (and Gohan who was on par with him) surpassing base Goku just by training for 8 months on Earth doesn't make any sense.
There was also no comment (I believe or Herms would have said on Twitter) about Piccolo's power level spiking. If it had increased that drastically that quickly you'd think that at least one person there would have said something.
There's literally nothing suggesting Goku can alternate between two base powers. He also never fought Beerus in base in this continuity.
If a Zarbon level fighter can reach Buu level in 4 months then I see nothing wrong with Piccolo and Gohan reaching base Goku in double the time.
Zombie wrote:Leaving the fucking lame ass bullshit aside for a minute, this episode made no sense power wise.
Goku flat out tells Piccolo he has no chance to win yet he not only took several hits without taking any noticeable damage but he also blocked all of Frost's hits with one hand and managed to restrain Frost with said hand to the point he needed to cheat again. Not to mention he broke the dome that even Champa couldn't.
P.S. I really hope Hit kills Frost.
Goku was wrong Piccolo's attack could have killed Frost as it destroyed the dome.
Zombie wrote:If a Zarbon level fighter can reach Buu level in 4 months then I see nothing wrong with Piccolo and Gohan reaching base Goku in double the time.
That would shit on Goku's proclamation even more than Vegeta and Freeza already have.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Zombie wrote:If a Zarbon level fighter can reach Buu level in 4 months then I see nothing wrong with Piccolo and Gohan reaching base Goku in double the time.
That would shit on Goku's proclamation even more than Vegeta and Freeza already have.
Oh the horror. One of the two protagonist of the Goku and Vegeta show gets his training progression shit on. Too fucking bad.
The feats speaks for themselves.
Last edited by ZombieVito on Sun Mar 06, 2016 4:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
Zombie wrote:If a Zarbon level fighter can reach Buu level in 4 months then I see nothing wrong with Piccolo and Gohan reaching base Goku in double the time.
That would shit on Goku's proclamation even more than Vegeta and Freeza already have.
Oh the horror. One of the two protagonist of the Goku and Vegeta show gets his training progression shit on. Too fucking bad.
The feats speaks for themselves.
We get it you're upset. I simply don't want more nonsensical crap. I have harped many times about wanting more useful characters, but not if it means through dumb bullshit.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
The feats speak for themselves. Piccolo broke the dome that Champa couldn't.
Pretty sure Champa could if he wanted to. If he and Beerus can wreck a universe or 2, a dinky dome I'm sure he can break if he wants to. So what Piccolo is now Champa level? He did something you're saying Champa couldn't? That's even more silly.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Champa himself said he would be embarrassed if the dome broke in the tournament and of course he could brake it but he would have to make an effort since he couldn't do it casually.
Zombie wrote:Champa himself said he would be embarrassed if the dome broke in the tournament and of course he could brake it but he would have to make an effort since he couldn't do it casually.
A non god tier attack will not brake the dome.
We are completely unaware with how much power he used. The rest is opinionated of course since we aren't given any frame of reference. There really is no right or wrong answer, just opinions. I'm personally not the type to wank though when it comes to my opinions on power levels.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
The methodology of the Makankosappo's damage output implies that it's capable of more penetrative-oriented feats than other techniques with a wider scope and volume. It's not so surprising for Piccolo to accomplish that feat when he's been charging that specific technique for some time.
I suppose Piccolo is still above Frost in his initial form. The assault form is debatable as well.
Well this episode makes it even more weird to make sense of piccolo going on par with weakened lost stamina frost a bit. Either Frost was playing around and trying to regain his strength/power while Picoolo charged at him or he was just only using enough strength power to win.
Based on Picoolo matching base gohan in the end of their traning when goku and vegeta arrived to pick up Picoolo for tournament, I see Picoolo even a bit stronger then base gohan possible. Base gohan would be at least his buu arc Ultimate level, but considering some ridiculous power up Super shows characters get. I can say that:
Base gohan - at least buutenks tier
Picoolo - buuhan tier
Ssj gohan - buu arc ssj vegito tier
I know, it may sound ridiculous but it is how it looks like, so unless goku was massively holding back or not using god ki, then it must be like that. If that is true that retconn beerus's power comparing to ssj vegito from buu arc.
weakened Final form Frost - 3
ssj gohan(super vegito) - 2
holding back weakened Final Form Frost - 1
Picoolo - 0.5
base gohan - 0.4
Well what do you thnk guys, how would you explain it ?
ssbgoku wrote:Well this episode makes it even more weird to make sense of piccolo going on par with weakened lost stamina frost a bit. Either Frost was playing around and trying to regain his strength/power while Picoolo charged at him or he was just only using enough strength power to win.
Based on Picoolo matching base gohan in the end of their traning when goku and vegeta arrived to pick up Picoolo for tournament, I see Picoolo even a bit stronger then base gohan possible. Base gohan would be at least his buu arc Ultimate level, but considering some ridiculous power up Super shows characters get. I can say that:
Base gohan - at least buutenks tier
Picoolo - buuhan tier
Ssj gohan - buu arc ssj vegito tier
I know, it may sound ridiculous but it is how it looks like, so unless goku was massively holding back or not using god ki, then it must be like that. If that is true that retconn beerus's power comparing to ssj vegito from buu arc.
weakened Final form Frost - 3
ssj gohan(super vegito) - 2
holding back weakened Final Form Frost - 1
Picoolo - 0.5
base gohan - 0.4
Well what do you thnk guys, how would you explain it ?
But maybe thats a lie. If Frost is like Freeza he could have some tricks on his sleeve. That could be that he isnt weakend that much that he cant kill someone. For example, that finger beam go tru the legs of Piccolo. What if it hit his chest? Piccolo would be death....
Chillekasper wrote:What do you people think about piccolo's power? I think it will be this:
Beerus: 10
(Base) Goku 3
SSJ Goku 4,5
SSB Goku 7.0
Frost 1 form 2,5
Frost aasault 3,2
Frost final form 4
Piccolo 3,5
And if Gohan would be in the tournament than he would be even with Frost final form:
(Mystic/SSJ) Gohan 4
For the coming fights, I think Vegeta is stronger than Goku. So his level would be:
(Base) Vegeta 3.2
SSJ Vegeta 5.0
SSB Vegeta 7.5
Wait so now people think Piccolo is x3-4 SSJ3??????????
Adding to you chart above
Rage boost SSJ Vegeta 0.9
Goku SSJ3 0.5-0.8
Seriously this whole Super thing has COMPLETELY shattered power level gauges to the point where training, transforming, and supposed God tier literally mean nothing. At this point I think we should all just start fresh and assume everyone has a fair shot to beat anyone else and completely ignore all the lore we've had for the past 20 years. It seems the writers are already doing that.
namekiansaiyan wrote:So how strong was Piccolo's Special Beam Cannon, it destroed the dome and probably would have done the same to Frost
Stronger than the test blasts champa fired.
Considering how impressed champa looked after firing those ki blasts, id say they werent super weak ones.
TheMikado wrote:
Seriously this whole Super thing has COMPLETELY shattered power level gauges to the point where training, transforming, and supposed God tier literally mean nothing. At this point I think we should all just start fresh and assume everyone has a fair shot to beat anyone else and completely ignore all the lore we've had for the past 20 years. It seems the writers are already doing that.
Well we know that goku,vegeta and current piccolo and gohan are above buu saga characters minus vegetto(no idea where he ranks or will ever do).
Also i believe that gohan had to use ssj vs tagoma because he couldnt access his ultimate power due to lack of training. But after many months of training with piccolo, he can access his ultimate power in base form, which in turn boosted piccolo also, plus no doubt his power spiked allot as did piccolo's.
Last edited by buutenks on Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
ssbgoku wrote:Well this episode makes it even more weird to make sense of piccolo going on par with weakened lost stamina frost a bit. Either Frost was playing around and trying to regain his strength/power while Picoolo charged at him or he was just only using enough strength power to win.
Based on Picoolo matching base gohan in the end of their traning when goku and vegeta arrived to pick up Picoolo for tournament, I see Picoolo even a bit stronger then base gohan possible. Base gohan would be at least his buu arc Ultimate level, but considering some ridiculous power up Super shows characters get. I can say that:
Base gohan - at least buutenks tier
Picoolo - buuhan tier
Ssj gohan - buu arc ssj vegito tier
I know, it may sound ridiculous but it is how it looks like, so unless goku was massively holding back or not using god ki, then it must be like that. If that is true that retconn beerus's power comparing to ssj vegito from buu arc.
weakened Final form Frost - 3
ssj gohan(super vegito) - 2
holding back weakened Final Form Frost - 1
Picoolo - 0.5
base gohan - 0.4
Well what do you thnk guys, how would you explain it ?
But maybe thats a lie. If Frost is like Freeza he could have some tricks on his sleeve. That could be that he isnt weakend that much that he cant kill someone. For example, that finger beam go tru the legs of Piccolo. What if it hit his chest? Piccolo would be death....
^^ simple it wouldn't make sense. As I stated already Picoolo is in at least stronger then buuhan tier and at the most bog arc ssj vegito tier, there is no if or buts. He simply can not be stronger then that without some bullshit power up. If that is true, then that retconn bog arc ssj vegito tier as around 10% of beerus power.
dbgtFO wrote:The Tier list as of episode 34:
Beyond God tier: Vados & Whis.
God tier 1: Beerus & Champa.
God tier 2: Monaka.
God tier 3: SSGSS Goku, SSGSS Vegeta(Champa arc) & Golden Freeza.
God tier 4: SSGSS Goku, SSGSS Vegeta(RoF arc), SBG Goku & SBG Vegeta(Champa arc).
God tier 5: SBG Goku, SBG Vegeta(RoF arc) & SSG Goku.
God tier 6: Final Form Freeza.
God tier 7: 10% Beerus.
Scrub tier 1: SS1 Goku & SS1 Vegeta(Champa arc).
Scrub tier 2: Final Form Frost.
Scrub tier 3: Base Goku(Champa arc) & Assault Form Frost.
Scrub tier 4: First Form Frost.
Scrub tier 5: Botamo & Piccolo(Champa arc).
No way Piccolo's anywhere near the God levels.
The case simply must be: Base < SS <<<<<<<<<<<<<< SSG/SBG < SSGSS.
This or ssj vegito is officialy retconned as being around 10% of beerus. I don't see other way unless bullshit power up.
