Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Bullza]

I'd say

SBG Goku = SBG Vegeta
Frieza Final Form
Frieza First Form
SSJ Gohan (?)
SSJ Goku = SSJ Vegeta
Frost Final Form
Piccolo = Base Gohan
Frost Third Form
Base Goku = Base Vegeta

[DragonHermit]

Goku can use regular Super Saiyan and God Ki at the same time. He does so against Beerus.

Give me some concrete Statement from the episode that says he did not use God Ki against Frost. I'll believe it then

Against Beerus his God Ki was surpressed, not completely gone. By definition SS Blue = SSJ + God Ki (fully unlocked). Unless you have a different definition of it.

The reason why I'm doubting he's SbG 24/7 is that Krillin could still sense his Ki vs. Frieza.

[ShinTenshin]

Frost is clear he is completely EXHAUSTED and can't do NOTHING to Piccolo. It's the reason why The Namek isn't dead. Vegeta think Piccolo is nothing but shit tier. Goku isn't impressed at all. It's an ant compared to base Goku.

I'm waiting the next ep and the revelation of frost that has pretended to be exhausted in front of Piccolo because he was portrayed as a good guy and everything was a part of his plan. Now everyone know who he is so he hasn't need to lie anymore, he will be far stronger in front of vegeta.
I can't wait to see the same fans when they will finally understand how weak is really Piccolo, it will be absolutely delicious.

[namekiansaiyan]

Frost is clear he is completely EXHAUSTED and can't do NOTHING to Piccolo. It's the reason why The Namek isn't dead. Vegeta think Piccolo is nothing but shit tier. Goku isn't impressed at all. It's an ant compared to base Goku.

I'm waiting the next ep and the revelation of frost that has pretended to be exhausted in front of Piccolo because he was portrayed as a good guy and everything was a part of his plan. Now everyone know who he is so he hasn't need to lie anymore, he will be far stronger in front of vegeta.
I can't wait to see the same fans when they will finally understand how weak is really Piccolo, it will be absolutely delicious.

If he was stronger he would not of have cheated.
All you have to do is look what Piccolo's Special Beam Cannon done to the dome to see how powerful he has become.

[apex_pretador]

Frost is clear he is completely EXHAUSTED and can't do NOTHING to Piccolo. It's the reason why The Namek isn't dead. Vegeta think Piccolo is nothing but shit tier. Goku isn't impressed at all. It's an ant compared to base Goku.

I'm waiting the next ep and the revelation of frost that has pretended to be exhausted in front of Piccolo because he was portrayed as a good guy and everything was a part of his plan. Now everyone know who he is so he hasn't need to lie anymore, he will be far stronger in front of vegeta.
I can't wait to see the same fans when they will finally understand how weak is really Piccolo, it will be absolutely delicious.

Exactly, piccolo is so pathetically weak that he only broke vados' barrier.

[LowRyder2005]

So where do you think following people stand:

Piccolo
Improved gohan
Frost
Base goku
Base villaingeta

The couple of God/Scrub tiers are good lists, in my opinion. I'd rather talk about "Super tiers" and "Z-tiers". All the guys from universe 6 so far are at most mid-Z-tiers. My personal estimations are:

Z tiers
Botamo = around Mecha Freeza
1st Form Frost = around Botamo
Base Goku (no God ki) = around Imperfect Cell or Super Namek Piccolo from the Android Arc, he is stronger than 1st Form Frost, but weaker than Assault
Assault Form Frost = around Semi-Perfect Cell
Final Form Frost = around Perfect Cell
Piccolo = around SS2 Gohan from Buu Saga
Gohan at his max = about equal to Piccolo or slightly weaker; he implies he still needs to be trained by him, after all
Super Saiyan Goku (no God ki) = about equal to his Super Saiyan 3 self from the beginning of Super
Super Saiyan Vegeta (no God ki) = equal to Goku

Super tiers
The usual Whis/ Vados on top, Beerus, Monaka and Champa, Super Saiyan Blue Goku and Vegeta, and Beyond God Goku and Vegeta (which I interpret as Goku and Vegeta amping their normal ki with God ki).

[ShinTenshin]

The piercing is just a PROPERTY of theMakankosappo, it's like Kienzan who CUT everything.
Or Sorbet is a fucking god tier that can destroy a SSBLUE.

[dbzfan7]

Frost is clear he is completely EXHAUSTED and can't do NOTHING to Piccolo. It's the reason why The Namek isn't dead. Vegeta think Piccolo is nothing but shit tier. Goku isn't impressed at all. It's an ant compared to base Goku.

I'm waiting the next ep and the revelation of frost that has pretended to be exhausted in front of Piccolo because he was portrayed as a good guy and everything was a part of his plan. Now everyone know who he is so he hasn't need to lie anymore, he will be far stronger in front of vegeta.
I can't wait to see the same fans when they will finally understand how weak is really Piccolo, it will be absolutely delicious.

I can see him holding back for sure, but he was still stomped by Goku while fresh. So Vegeta shouldn't be having trouble.

[ZombieVito]

The piercing is just a PROPERTY of theMakankosappo, it's like Kienzan who CUT everything.
Or Sorbet is a fucking god tier that can destroy a SSBLUE.

If that is true then why does Piccolo need to charge it? Power is a factor here.

[Bullza]

Well Base Goku at the start of Super was weaker than Frieza. I know he's trained a bit since then but I doubt he'd have grown as powerful as Imperfect Cell not taking God power into consideration.

I mean in all those years between the Namek saga and the BoG saga Goku was still in between a low end and high end Frieza.

[ShinTenshin]

Yeah it's clearly to accumulate more ki and have a stronger attack.
The charge is simply how the Makankosappo is always portrayed, a piercing attack with a crazy amount of time to be effective.
There is nothing new under the Sun.

[Speedster]

Well Base Goku at the start of Super was weaker than Frieza. I know he's trained a bit since then but I doubt he'd have grown as powerful as Imperfect Cell not taking God power into consideration.

I mean in all those years between the Namek saga and the BoG saga Goku was still in between a low end and high end Frieza.

That is open for a huge debate of course. Anyway the way I see it is that Super for the purposes of hyping the RoF arc relegated everyone (bar the Super Saiyans) to a level below Freeza. In RoF Piccolo asked Gohan whether he needs help against Shishami who later confirmed to be below the Ginuy force. At the same time bae Gohan>Piccolo. Also Sorbet compared Tagoma with the Ginuy force and was surprised that he surpassed them - why he didn't compare Tagoma to first form Freeza from the Namek saga? All these tell me that everyone was lowballed below Freeza - including base Goku. But despite all this they still kept the notion that base Saiyans are above Piccolo as established at the start of the Buu arc and since Piccolo>Freeza so are the BoGs base Saiyans.

I don't believe for a second that the show is going by normal/godly base. There is only one base.

[ekrolo2]

Where is this idea of two base forms coming from?

[Doctor.]

Where is this idea of two base forms coming from?

Extreme reach to justify Piccolo being somewhat of a match for Frost. Seems like a few people just can't accept that Piccolo got super strong like Tagoma and Freeza.

[ZombieVito]

Where is this idea of two base forms coming from?

People wanting to nerf Piccolo.

[ekrolo2]

Is it possible Goku just damaged him badly enough for his power to drop to a level where Piccolo's charged blast could affect him enough to get knocked out of the ring? The whole ki/god ki thing is stupid enough without needing to create separate base forms.

[Lionel]

Is it possible Goku just damaged him badly enough for his power to drop to a level where Piccolo's charged blast could affect him enough to get knocked out of the ring? The whole ki/god ki thing is stupid enough without needing to create separate base forms.

Keep in mind that the preview shows Vegeta transforming into a Super Saiyan. If it's occurring during his match against Frost then that must indicate he doesn't feel comfortable enough in challenging Frost in Base. By the way, wasn't it already shown in the BoG arc that the power of God Ki was instinctually retained in normal state and SSJ? It's not unreasonable to assume that regular golden haired Super Saiyan is now an intermediary state between Base and SSJB.

[ekrolo2]

Is it possible Goku just damaged him badly enough for his power to drop to a level where Piccolo's charged blast could affect him enough to get knocked out of the ring? The whole ki/god ki thing is stupid enough without needing to create separate base forms.

Keep in mind that the preview shows Vegeta transforming into a Super Saiyan. If it's occurring during his match against Frost then that must indicate he doesn't feel comfortable enough in challenging Frost in Base. By the way, wasn't it already shown in the BoG arc that the power of God Ki was instinctually retained in normal state and SSJ? It's not unreasonable to assume that regular golden haired Super Saiyan is now an intermediary state between Base and SSJB.

It is in the movie, in the show we have no idea how strong Base is except that its a lot stronger than it was before. At least stronger than Ultimate Gohan if SSJ Gohan's power is really on par with his Boo Saga self.

[Bullza]

Where is this idea of two base forms coming from?

It making no sense in the slightest bit why Piccolo is above base Goku.

[apex_pretador]

Where is this idea of two base forms coming from?

It making no sense in the slightest bit why Piccolo is above base Goku.

he doesn't need to be.

He is a great fighter & that's why he was able to keep up with an opponent 50 times stronger than him