Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[namekiansaiyan]

Where is this idea of two base forms coming from?

It making no sense in the slightest bit why Piccolo is above base Goku.

Piccolo trained simple as, its not hard to understand why he got stronger than base Goku. Piccolo even said that everyone was understimating him.

[Helios518]

Where is this idea of two base forms coming from?

It making no sense in the slightest bit why Piccolo is above base Goku.

he doesn't need to be.

He is a great fighter & that's why he was able to keep up with an opponent 50 times stronger than him

Yeah Piccolo is a beast but he's not that good. Piccolo got destroyed by 3rd form Frieza who is 4x his power at absolute most and he also got destroyed by Imperfect Cell before the Rosat who is maybe 3x his strength at most.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Where is this idea of two base forms coming from?

Extreme reach to justify Piccolo being somewhat of a match for Frost. Seems like a few people just can't accept that Piccolo got super strong like Tagoma and Freeza.

Tagoma & Freeza didn't become that strong in 5 days.

[namekiansaiyan]

Yeah Piccolo is a beast but he's not that good. Piccolo got destroyed by 3rd form Frieza who is 4x his power at absolute most and he also got destroyed by Imperfect Cell before the Rosat who is maybe 3x his strength at most.

Piccolo's power level in the past means nothing now, he is above base Goku and that is a fact and he also said everyone is underestimating him.

[Helios518]

Yeah Piccolo is a beast but he's not that good. Piccolo got destroyed by 3rd form Frieza who is 4x his power at absolute most and he also got destroyed by Imperfect Cell before the Rosat who is maybe 3x his strength at most.

Piccolo's power level in the past means nothing now, he is above base Goku and that is a fact and he also said everyone is underestimating him.

I didn't mean that at all, I know he's stronger than Base Goku. Apex said just because he's great at skill he can keep up with someone that's 50x more powerful than him but that's literally impossible.

[RandomGuy96]

I'm just seeing more and more proof that base Goku isn't that strong.

[namekiansaiyan]

I didn't mean that at all, I know he's stronger than Base Goku. Apex said just because he's great at skill he can keep up with someone that's 50x more powerful than him but that's literally impossible.

Yeah obviously not if Piccolo is 50x weaker, Frost and Piccolo are definitely close in power. People keep ignoring the evidence from the battle and Piccolo saying they are underestimating him and are instead just believing what Goku said to Piccolo even though he probably only said that because he did not know how he lost himself.

I'm just seeing more and more proof that base Goku isn't that strong.

Or you refuse to believe Piccolo is really strong.

[Noah]

Or you refuse to believe Piccolo is really strong.

Strong as a God-tier? Hell, no.

[namekiansaiyan]

Or you refuse to believe Piccolo is really strong.

Strong as a God-tier? Hell, no.

The evidence says he is stronger than base Goku
Frost final form >base goku and Piccolo is fighting Frost easily so therefore Piccolo> base Goku. It is not really that hard to understand.

[ekrolo2]

Why is Final Form Frost above base Goku? In both the anime and manga, Goku transforms to demonstrate the ability he can to provoke Frost into using his final form.

[LightBing]

If Piccolo has gotten to God Tier they would tell, right? It's the new benchmark in the series, I really doubt they would omit something like that. I can see everything making sense, if Base Goku and Base Vegeta aren't equal or close to SSJG. There's contradictory material regarding this, for example that comparison Whis made with the tree and the God level.
Could it have been retconned?

Anyway, for now I have Piccolo slightly stronger than Mystic Gohan. Let's see what new info arrives to make things clear.

[namekiansaiyan]

If Piccolo has gotten to God Tier they would tell, right? It's the new benchmark in the series, I really doubt they would omit something like that. I can see everything making sense, if Base Goku and Base Vegeta aren't equal or close to SSJG. There's contradictory material regarding this, for example that comparison Whis made with the tree and the God level.
Could it have been retconned?

Anyway, for now I have Piccolo slightly stronger than Mystic Gohan. Let's see what new info arrives to make things clear.

They did not say how strong Piccolo is beacuse Goku and Vegeta were underestimatinh him and he proved them wrong.
The whole point of the Special Beam Cannon destroying the Dome and Champa's reaction along with Piccolo dominating Frost was to show his Power. It was a show not tell explanation.

[Bullza]

Where is this idea of two base forms coming from?

It making no sense in the slightest bit why Piccolo is above base Goku.

Piccolo trained simple as, its not hard to understand why he got stronger than base Goku. Piccolo even said that everyone was understimating him.

Goku trained as well, for over 5 times as long as Piccolo while being dozens of times more powerful before even starting training to begin with.

No it really wouldn't make any sense.

[namekiansaiyan]

Piccolo trained simple as, its not hard to understand why he got stronger than base Goku. Piccolo even said that everyone was understimating him.

Goku trained as well, for over 5 times as long as Piccolo while being dozens of times more powerful before even starting training to begin with.

No it really wouldn't make any sense.

Look at Piccolo's previous power boosts he gets big ones. Also look at Tagoma, Frieza and even Vegeta as he did not train long to become a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.

[Bullza]

They weren't that big, he only got about 5 times stronger in a year training with Gohan before. He was no match for a Cell Jr and was below Super Saiyan level for the rest of the series.

Frieza's boost was explained. Tagoma's was to an extent and we don't know that he couldn't have some zenkai boost like the Saiyans and Vegeta trained with Whis.

Here we have a Piccolo who before, alongside 4 other fighters was said to stand no chance at all against Frieza in his first form. Goku was comfortably stronger than Frieza in his final form.

Goku then trained for 3 years and 8 months which included special training equipment Whis conjured up. Piccolo spent 8 months training on Earth and somehow his power has skyrocketed.....and nobody says anything about it?

I don't think so, that just doesn't make any sense.

[dbzfan7]

There is no right answer yet. Personally I refuse to wank anyone. Heck I kinda am thinking that the whole universal thing may be an outlier. Beerus and Champa's lame ass brawl kinda shows this level could still be a threat to the universe, but it seems kinda like people forget that a couple punches at this level can ruin the fabric of the universe. Yeah Goku found a way around it, but I'd still be pretty concerned that a mistake or beam collision could end all life.

On the subject. I don't buy a gigantic gain unless they specifically go "Wow Piccolo got so strong." They never say that. They say Freeza got so strong. They say Tagoma got so strong. They say Vegeta got so strong. Why wouldn't they mention Piccolo did some crazy training to get so strong, if he was a big shot? I take that as he isn't. Heck that also means I don't buy base Gohan as a big shot either since he fought evenly with Piccolo. I don't rate SSJ Gohan as anything special as he still is being trained from scratch, and isn't finished getting better yet. I guess the absolute best you can take out it is the Makankosappo is a powerful attack.

Goku then trained for 3 years and 8 months which included special training equipment Whis conjured up. Piccolo spent 8 months training on Earth and somehow his power has skyrocketed.....and nobody says anything about it?

I don't think so, that just doesn't make any sense.

I'm still waiting on if anyone can name me 1 time. 1 TIME, where someone got a hell of a lot stronger (or even significantly so), and nobody commented on it. I don't think that ever happened.

If Piccolo was really that strong, then why would anyone be upset about the last episode? That would mean Piccolo while not fighting now, is still a power player. He's on a really high level which could mean he could be very useful against god threats. I'd be ecstatic about just that alone.

[ekrolo2]

DragonTeam's translation had Krillin say something along the lines "An attack beyond his normal limits!" when answering Oolong's question as to why Piccolo doesn't just fire the thing already. Meaning Piccolo has, somehow, gotten back the big ass boosts charging attacks give you from the early Z-era and is increasing his power a great deal to blast Frost away. Something Frost himself admits before he blasts Piccolo through the chest.

[LowRyder2005]

Where is this idea of two base forms coming from?

It making no sense in the slightest bit why Piccolo is above base Goku.

he doesn't need to be.

He is a great fighter & that's why he was able to keep up with an opponent 50 times stronger than him

This is somewhat of a "weak" remark in my eyes. In the series thus far, even having an opponent 25% can give you a big edge. And now Piccolo can damage an opponent 5000% times stronger? It clearly can't be the case unless we want to concede it'd be bad writing or plot-induced stupidity, Makankosappo or not.

We know, though, that this Piccolo is stronger than the base Goku who faced Botamo (Goku considered himself below Third Form Frost): Piccolo is, however, considered weak sauce compared to Buu both before and even after they see him fight.

If you had suddenly seen a Piccolo who got, what... a million times stronger would you still say "nah, he's weak"; "lol what a joke"; "good luck, you don't stand a chance"? I mean, for Pete's sake, it'd be to a level possibly higher than the Beyond Goku who fought Freeza. And Goku and Vegeta aren't still much higher than that, 'cause they are said to be weaker than Monaka, who is in turn weaker than Beerus.
Moreover, according to this mindset, if Piccolo had trained with Gohan for ten months after the Cell Games he'd have curbstomped Vegito, or any form of Buu. Why didn't he train if he could? Why hasn't it been said he's that incredible compared to Goku, who trained years in the Other World and hadn't even surpassed his son for certain without Super Saiyan 3?
Other issue: whoever is God tier had some special training with Whis and Vados (or was a "prodigy" like Freeza). Piccolo didn't and he has never been implicated to be a prodigy such as Freeza, obviously. People are stil debating if in the Android Saga (before merging) he could beat 100% Freeza or not.

And I'll add: how can all the assumptions be less far-fetched than "he just turns God ki on and off" in anyone's eyes is beyond me. The fact that Piccolo could reach the level of Gods by training for himself with a weakened Gohan could very much be nothing short of plot-breaking, it'd raise way too many issues. Issues on a scale far above even the power creep we had throughout in the Saiyan and Namek saga (which at least were partially justified by the plot: training with Kami who was the best on Earth, then training with King Kai who was the best in the quadrant, then training with a device which absurd artificial gravity and so on).

Here Piccolo "casually trains" for eight months and becomes a god. Honestly, it's silly however you want to look at it. Just like Freeza's case but without even a justification of the sorts, since Freeza left some leeway in the lore to introduce stuff like "hey, but he had never trained, he is a genetic freak". You could't even do it with Piccolo, who has always (or most of the times) trained or kept training.

All things considered, reasonably, Piccolo and Gohan are still below Good Buu. The plot and the characters didn't overplay the situations, but they clearly presented Buu as a bigger "powerhouse" in Goku and Vegeta's eyes than Gohan and Piccolo.
And that puts them way below as far as tiers list are concerned. This in turn leaves quite a lot of room for the "God ki/ not God ki Goku".

[ZombieVito]

Piccolo and Gohan are not god level. Hell I have both only at 5% of Beerus.

Boo was chosen over Piccolo and Gohan because their training was not known.

[Helios518]

Piccolo and Gohan are not god level. Hell I have both only at 5% of Beerus.

Boo was chosen over Piccolo and Gohan because their training was not known.

For comparison, how much percent do you have Buuhan and Vegetto forms take?