"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[namekiansaiyan]

Obviously Gohan and Piccolo fans want more then that as evidenced by the outrage in this thread and around the internet.

Maybe I exaggerated a bit but my point is, when a character does something then his fans are going to want more.

Piccolo hasn't done anything relevant since his fight with #17 which explains why his fans wanted him to win here but they shouldn't get this worked up over what happened cause he's been irrelevant since that fight which was a very very long time ago so what happened shouldn't be that surprising.

Look at Gohan, he's Goku's son, he defeated Cell and at the end of the Buu arc he was the strongest unfused character so if he can't get any relevancy here, why should Piccolo ?

They made Piccolo relevant as he would have obviously beat Frost and then fight someone else but instead they made him relevant for 10 minutes and then Vegeta said thats enough of someone who is not a Super Saiyan God and normal service will now resume.

So your logic is...they shouldn't be mad at the episode because the arc isn't over? That people who earnestly root for Piccolo should chill cause "Maybe he'll get to do a thing."

Yeah no, I think Big green's fanbase are due some justified anger at this episode, it crapped on a character they enjoy, made him defer to a character he just generally doesn't like and robs him of going forward. Cause lets be honest, if Piccolo had told Vegeta to fuck off (Which he should have.) Frost would be DQed, Piccolo would move on to fight Magetta and U7 would be a step closer to keep their flipping planet! But no, we need to have Piccolo give up and let Vegeta take the stage cause we need to let Vegeta fight the Freeza clone cause Vegeta MUST fight everyone and everything that looks even remotely like Freeza.

I don't think anyone is saying they aren't entitled to their opinion but they don't need to keep posting the same stuff over and over about this "Goku and Vegeta show" nonsense because that's not even a proper opinion, it comes off as childish tantrum.

Does anyone actually believe either Toei or Toriyama care enough about fictional characters to "crap" on them or humiliate them? I mean, Toriyama probably enjoyed the beating he gave Vegeta at the hands of Freeza or having Chichi be stepped on by Boo but I would assume he's surpassed that now. It just seems silly that peoply actualy think professionals get this attached to characters that don't actually exist and can easily just write them however they see fit.

I'd also like to point out that Vegeta and Piccolo are on good terms and have been for a long time. They respect and understand one another, they just keep their "grumpy" facade, there's no bullying between them. Piccolo knows when to step down and that's what happened here, Vegeta was just the first to be vocal about that. You guys project yourselves too much on the characters and forget they have a "life" of their own.

How would Piccolo know to step down now as he knows nothing about his next opponent and Piccolo looked healthy to me.
Also why would Beerus let Piccolo forfeit when that makes it 4 vs 2 instead of 3 vs 3 as Beerus desperately wants to win the tournament.

[Neon Z]

Its not that I cant accept it, its that "it was not implied that they were impressed by it" seriously now both Gods of destruction be surprised from what Piccolo can do? what is there to be impressed about? its not like they cant do what Piccolo just showed. Seriously they're like watching turtles fighting each other from what they can do.

So basically you think Picclo>>>SSJ1 Goku then? Vegeta praised Goku multiple times and was even surprised by Piccolo on the android arc when Piccolo closed the gap between the saiyans and him, were we watching the same show?
Piccolo was dominating yes, against a guy that just got his ass handed by Goku, basically ROF all over again, with Piccolo getting the Vegeta treatment. Frost lied about his personality yes but we all saw how Goku trashed him right? with you thinking that had no effect on him is beyond me.

They don't need to be stronger than Champa and Beerus in order to impress them. Champa's surprise at the barrier being broken by that attack (the same barrier that already had taken generic ki blasts from him) is pretty telling. If it was no big deal he wouldn't react to it in the first place.

[SansrivaaL]

Its not that I cant accept it, its that "it was not implied that they were impressed by it" seriously now both Gods of destruction be surprised from what Piccolo can do? what is there to be impressed about? its not like they cant do what Piccolo just showed. Seriously they're like watching turtles fighting each other from what they can do.

So basically you think Picclo>>>SSJ1 Goku then? Vegeta praised Goku multiple times and was even surprised by Piccolo on the android arc when Piccolo closed the gap between the saiyans and him, were we watching the same show?
Piccolo was dominating yes, against a guy that just got his ass handed by Goku, basically ROF all over again, with Piccolo getting the Vegeta treatment. Frost lied about his personality yes but we all saw how Goku trashed him right? with you thinking that had no effect on him is beyond me.

They don't need to be stronger than Champa and Beerus in order to impress them. Champa's surprise at the barrier being broken by that attack (the same barrier that already had taken generic ki blasts from him) is pretty telling. If it was no big deal he wouldn't react to it in the first place.

The problem is they didnt look impressed, heck Vados was surprised with Goku's speed on the manga but do I see that as her being impressed? nope. Of course he needed to react when the barrier got destroyed, some would suffocate from that hole in there (like the saiyans and the audience) but impressed? lets just say for me its a no, but if some of you thinks that they were impressed from merely Piccolo's showing then by all means.

[Lord Beerus]

You know what I've noticed? Nobody complains when things go "according to plan." Even if the plan is horrifying! If, tomorrow, I tell the community that, like, Vegeta gets one shotted by Frost, or Goku loses to Hit, nobody panics, because it's all "part of the plan". But when I say that one little weak Namakian will forfeit his match, well then everyone loses their minds!

You went Joker from The Dark Knight on us, didn't you?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

The thing is Goku while fighting Freeza in base still didn't have god ki. So by your logic he should be a bit stronger than his BoG non god self and that's impossible.

The fact that he doesn't have godly ki doesn't mean that he doesn't have the power of Super Saiyan God. Against Beerus, SS Goku was exactly as strong as his SSG form, yet he didn't have godly ki.

[sintzu]

You went Joker from The Dark Knight on us, didn't you?

Yep.

They made Piccolo relevant for 10 minutes and then Vegeta said that's enough of someone who is not a Super Saiyan God and normal service will now resume.

Gohan and Buu didn't get 10 seconds so you should be happy he lasted that long.

[Bullza]

Just watched some DB Super clips on YouTube and I thought the reaction to the animation was bad on this site.

It's true though it is pretty dreadful, the series is going to end up being known mainly for its animation at this rate. If anything it's getting worse.

[sailorspazz]

How would Piccolo know to step down now as he knows nothing about his next opponent and Piccolo looked healthy to me.

He may "look healthy", but just a few minutes before he'd been hit with paralyzing poison, had a hole blown in his chest, and then used his regeneration powers. All of those things must have been a huge drain on his energy, so even if he could stand up and walk around okay, he was probably no longer in fighting condition. Vegeta could sense that, so he eagerly stepped forward to take his turn, and Piccolo only agreed to step down because he knew he wasn't in good enough shape to win the next fight. As long as Vegeta doesn't fuck something up and lose to Frost (though I feel he'll go straight into curb-stomping and not mess around), the end result is the same as if Piccolo went on to face the next opponent but quickly lost because he was too drained.

[Hellspawn28]

the series is going to end up being known mainly for its animation at this rate. If anything it's getting worse.

Well we have a good story so far. At least we have that.

[namekiansaiyan]

How would Piccolo know to step down now as he knows nothing about his next opponent and Piccolo looked healthy to me.

He may "look healthy", but just a few minutes before he'd been hit with paralyzing poison, had a hole blown in his chest, and then used his regeneration powers. All of those things must have been a huge drain on his energy, so even if he could stand up and walk around okay, he was probably no longer in fighting condition. Vegeta could sense that, so he eagerly stepped forward to take his turn, and Piccolo only agreed to step down because he knew he wasn't in good enough shape to win the next fight. As long as Vegeta doesn't fuck something up and lose to Frost (though I feel he'll go straight into curb-stomping and not mess around), the end result is the same as if Piccolo went on to face the next opponent but quickly lost because he was too drained.

There was a long pause before Piccolo replied to Vegeta and when he finaly spoke he reluctantly said he will forfeit even though you could tell he wanted to continue by his tone of voice and facial expression.

[FortuneSSJ]

It's cool there's isn't any episode this week.
The staff of this series needs all the help God can give them.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

It's cool there's isn't any episode this week.
The staff of this series needs all the help God can give them.

The schedule will probably still be crap. The break likely only sent some of the staff to work on a couple of cuts for some other show, rather than using it to help buffer Super.

[kinisking]

It's cool there's isn't any episode this week.
The staff of this series needs all the help God can give them.

The schedule will probably still be crap. The break likely only sent some of the staff to work on a couple of cuts for some other show, rather than using it to help buffer Super.

That's so dissapointing. I don't understand. Akira has shown dislike, the fans have shown dislike. Why haven't they fixed this!? This is so disappointing. They're working with such a fantastic story, if the animation and choreography matched this would be a proper sequel. I mean I still like super, but it could be better.

[Retan]

It's cool there's isn't any episode this week.
The staff of this series needs all the help God can give them.

The schedule will probably still be crap. The break likely only sent some of the staff to work on a couple of cuts for some other show, rather than using it to help buffer Super.

That's so dissapointing. I don't understand. Akira has shown dislike, the fans have shown dislike. Why haven't they fixed this!? This is so disappointing. They're working with such a fantastic story, if the animation and choreography matched this would be a proper sequel. I mean I still like super, but it could be better.

I agree with kinisking, and why not draw out the fights so these so called younger animators can get better at fight scenes? Who decides on the choreography anyways cause that other then a couple moments during gokus fight Beerus, they've been way to tame for db.

[JulieYBM]

I agree with kinisking, and why not draw out the fights so these so called younger animators can get better at fight scenes?

Fights require a higher number of in-between drawings (douga) and key animation (genga) by a key animator good enough to make proper use of them. Tweens cost 200-300¥ a piece and a typical in-betweener can do fifteen in a ten-ish hour day. The average episode at Toei Animation uses about 3,000 drawings, not only due to money but also due to lack of available staff. A key animator can usually finish two cuts--also known as 'shots'--a day. Rookie key animators make about 4,000¥ a cut. High-motion action or character acting cuts require more time and effort than simply dialogue shots. Why not spread fights out over more episodes? Because then the costly timeslots have to be bought but that might be done without guarantee of the investment being worth the cost, especially when animation studios themselves rarely make back much money themselves. If the story is spread too thin then the scripts will suffer. More episodes will mean more work for an already small and strained production team, which will lead to even more aspects of the production falling apart.

The Sunday morning timeslot is a timeslot for long-running titles from a studio that already has multiple series in production. Replacing Dragon Ball Super with another title does nobody any good because Toei Animation doesn't have the staff to pour into a fill-in show and Dragon Ball Super, which would be in production without even airing and making money back for the production committee members. Who is to say the production committee members or sponsors would even agree to allowing the series to take a break? The timeslot has to be filled or else Toei Animation will lose money paying for a timeslot they're not filling with anything. Worse, Toei could stop paying for the timeslot and let another studio have it without ever being able to reclaim it. Fuji TV is already extremely strict with allowing animation on their network.

There is no quick and easy fix to this.

Who decides on the choreography anyways cause that other then a couple moments during gokus fight Beerus, they've been way to tame for db.

The storyboard artist draws a storyboard in conjecture with the episode director. The series director approves the storyboard or makes changes. A trusted key animator can make changes or additions to whatever section they are assigned. Content deemed in conflict with broadcasting standards can be vetoed by Fuji TV.

[Retan]

Boy then it sure seems were stuck with what we've gotten, which is a shame. But isn't Toei one of the bigger animation companies in japan? If so why are these other companies willing to go the extra distance, while Toei is not?

I guess what I wanna know is why they cut down on the # of drawings, was it simply money?

[Chuquita]

Anyone know where the original source for this is:

Spoiler:

I found a copy here https://twitter.com/ELordy87/status/705902525845807106 but going further into that account's archive I don't think it's the actual artist's account since after a certain point you hit AF and lineart-copies. (Though I could be wrong.)

[JulieYBM]

Boy then it sure seems were stuck with what we've gotten, which is a shame. But isn't Toei one of the bigger animation companies in japan? If so why are these other companies willing to go the extra distance, while Toei is not?

Toei Animation has many employees and a union, which inevitably leads to having to pay animators more. The studio is large, so which takes up more property in a small nation, which leads to higher property taxes. To pay for all that you need to take on more work, which inevitably leads to becoming too thinly stretched, especially if the scheduling is poorly done or met with unforeseen circumstances. Other studios are smaller so they have less to worry about, especially since 'unions' are extremely uncommon in the industry. Then you have producers who are more cunning, have better connections with freelancers or are working on a small scale project that aims to make most of its money back on home video. Toei Animation doesn't really do that sort of thing, they make cheap crap they can air on television once to remind audiences to buy other, smaller merchandise. Japan is small so nobody wants dwindle their living space just to collect long running series, which inevitably cannot maintain consistent quality.

Some production teams have better conditions and can successfully bend over backwards to deliver great episodes. Others are stuck in circumstances with little time, little talent, little money and some schmuck changing shit at the last second for no good reason. Dragon Ball Super just so happens to be one of those storylines.

[Retan]

One more question Jacob I promise, if you could do one thing to fix Super's animation quality what would it be?

[JulieYBM]

One more question Jacob I promise, if you could do one thing to fix Super what would it be?

One has to determine which episode will be the most important. I assume Episode #48 will be the final episode. Once that has been determined ask every good animator on hand and ask them to work on the final episode starting immediately. Give the episode as many drawings as possible, even if that means other episodes have less. Meanwhile, get everyone to scribble out what they can on the next episode unfinished and set to air. If you can get fifty animators to work on a single episode--each episode normally having three hundred cuts--then they can finish the episode in three days or even less. Keep doing this and get every episode finished as fast as possible, even if they look like complete shit. There's no saving the series at this point but we might as well try to save the last episode or two.

Of course, that could very well not even be possible.