Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[namekiansaiyan]

All these weird stretch theories are because the show is not doing its job. I mean Jesus Christ little tidbits here and there maybe a sentence or two to explain what and why things are happening would make everyone so happy and more forgiving of the mostly unacceptable animation quality.

For example one sentence of krillin saying "he turned into a regular super saiyan?" And then whis saying 1-2 sentences about why and giving more insight into how God ki works. It would show that the writers care and remember things and then that would make the viewers feel good.

Even if they don't tell you all the information there is still enough to work things out.
Piccolo trained so Piccolo got stronger that is simple to understand
Stop making things up like having the God ki on or off and its easier to understand, just use what is shown the series..

[buutenks]

So let me get this straight some users are arguing Piccolo > base Goku?

Even though is the F arc:

• Piccolo stated he was no match for base Freeza
  Base Freeza almost killed SSJ Gohan (who's > Piccolo) and killed Piccolo
  Then base Goku casually smacks around final form Freeza

With no indication that Piccolo got stronger in anyway way shape or form he's now suddenly stronger than base Goku?

Nope not buying it for a second.

In super base goku is even with final form frieza.
Plus, piccolo doesnt need to be above base goku. just close to base goku considering frost was in a weakened state

[ssbgoku]

Ok. To be honest I think Picoolo getting stronger, but how strong I will try to show using evidences from the anime/manga.

1. Good Buu is still considered crazy strong and wanted to be taken as first before Picoolo, that leaves us with Good buu getting stronger or regeneration & stamina advantage matters more then power.

2. Picoolo and base gohan going on par and have been training for 8 months straight, which sound really impressive time to make gain.

3. Dragon ball super is portrayed as everyone getting stronger then ever in z by just training, it seems to be causal theme of it. Yeah I know gohan told goku he is getting back from scratch, but maybe it was just in refference to his swiftly moves and techniques, not pure power level.

4. Once frost transformed in final frost form base goku couldn't keep up so he was forced to ascends to ssj and then he easily overhelmed Final form frost.

5. Goku straightly told Picoolo that he has no chance against Final frost form, which just means Picoolo is still weaker then base goku/vegeta.

6. Picoolo asks frost to go back in his forms or just go easy on Picoolo and Frost assures him he doesn't have enough power to kill Picoolo. Considering Frost was still acting as good guy, he just said something he couldn't break without looking suspicious.

7. From dragon ball z we know that Picoolo's beam piercing attack can exceed and multiply his power level by at least x4. Keeping in mind Picoolo is very good techniques and even Tien improved his kikoho technique I can say Picoolo's beam attack is at least x8 muliplier.

8. The title of episode is "Bet Everything on the Makankosappo" so it is just strong hint to anime viewers that Picoolo is clearly outclassed.

9. Frost got at least some heavy hits and hard beating from ssj goku even if it lasted for a bit. so he is at least weakened to 70%-60% of his full power. However keeping in mind that Frost didn't use aura while fighting against Picoolo, I can see weakened tired frost fighting Picoolo with power less then 50%.

10. Frost shooting lasers and engaging Picoolo in hand to hand combat for some time, reminds me namek arc goku vs final form frieza at 2.5%(12 000 000 * 40= 120 000 000). However I will humble and say final from frost was using 10% against picoolo



so here is my power level list based on that:

beerus - 10
ssj goku - 7.5
final form frost/picoolo's Makankosappo- 6.8
base goku - 6.5
Assault form Frost - 6
picoolo/supressed & weakened final form frost(12.5%) - 0.85

so Picoolo's power level depends on if frost's power level dropped due to his clash with ssj goku or if he simply lowered down his ki to be nice guy because Picoolo asked him and he wanted to act as nice guy also the multiplier on Makankosappo, which would at least x4 if Picoolo didn't improve it at all but I am sure he did.

[ShinTenshin]

With the summary i'm now sure Frost will be ko in just one hit by Base Vegeta.
In FNF arc, final form Frieza is equal with base Goku and the Saiyan need SSGODSS to erase him.
So if base Vegeta destroy Frost, he will be clear that he is in fact really really weak.
If Vegeta say Frost is a shit, maybe he will be even under SS3 tier.

By the way, DBSUPER confirm than the base mode is overrated and has nothing special.
I think we will be fixed soon.
And we always need to know how many times stronger is the SS compared with base (X10 ? X50 ?).

[namekiansaiyan]

Ok. To be honest I think Picoolo getting stronger, but how strong I will try to show using evidences from the anime/manga.

1. Good Buu is still considered crazy strong and wanted to be taken as first before Picoolo, that leaves us with Good buu getting stronger or regeneration & stamina advantage matters more then power.

2. Picoolo and base gohan going on par and have been training for 8 months straight, which sound really impressive time to make gain.

3. Dragon ball super is portrayed as everyone getting stronger then ever in z by just training, it seems to be causal theme of it. Yeah I know gohan told goku he is getting back from scratch, but maybe it was just in refference to his swiftly moves and techniques, not pure power level.

4. Once frost transformed in final frost form base goku couldn't keep up so he was forced to ascends to ssj and then he easily overhelmed Final form frost.

5. Goku straightly told Picoolo that he has no chance against Final frost form, which just means Picoolo is still weaker then base goku/vegeta.

6. Picoolo asks frost to go back in his forms or just go easy on Picoolo and Frost assures him he doesn't have enough power to kill Picoolo. Considering Frost was still acting as good guy, he just said something he couldn't break without looking suspicious.

7. From dragon ball z we know that Picoolo's beam piercing attack can exceed and multiply his power level by at least x4. Keeping in mind Picoolo is very good techniques and even Tien improved his kikoho technique I can say Picoolo's beam attack is at least x8 muliplier.

8. The title of episode is "Bet Everything on the Makankosappo" so it is just strong hint to anime viewers that Picoolo is clearly outclassed.

9. Frost got at least some heavy hits and hard beating from ssj goku even if it lasted for a bit. so he is at least weakened to 70%-60% of his full power. However keeping in mind that Frost didn't use aura while fighting against Picoolo, I can see weakened tired frost fighting Picoolo with power less then 50%.

10. Frost shooting lasers and engaging Picoolo in hand to hand combat for some time, reminds me namek arc goku vs final form frieza at 2.5%(12 000 000 * 40= 120 000 000). However I will humble and say final from frost was using 10% against picoolo



so here is my power level list based on that:

beerus - 10
ssj goku - 7.5
final form frost/picoolo's Makankosappo- 6.8
base goku - 6.5
Assault form Frost - 6
picoolo/supressed & weakened final form frost(12.5%) - 0.85

so Picoolo's power level depends on if frost's power level dropped due to his clash with ssj goku or if he simply lowered down his ki to be nice guy because Picoolo asked him and he wanted to act as nice guy also the multiplier on Makankosappo, which would at least x4 if Picoolo didn't improve it at all but I am sure he did.

The reason I believe Frost is near full strength vs Piccolo is because he was getting worried while Piccolo was charging if he was holding back he would have powered up to stop Piccolo. The most important thing is that Frost cheated, he should have powered up and got out of Piccolo's grip if he is that much stronger. So for them 2 reasons I beleieve Frost was at nearly full strength.

[ssbgoku]

Ok. To be honest I think Picoolo getting stronger, but how strong I will try to show using evidences from the anime/manga.

1. Good Buu is still considered crazy strong and wanted to be taken as first before Picoolo, that leaves us with Good buu getting stronger or regeneration & stamina advantage matters more then power.

2. Picoolo and base gohan going on par and have been training for 8 months straight, which sound really impressive time to make gain.

3. Dragon ball super is portrayed as everyone getting stronger then ever in z by just training, it seems to be causal theme of it. Yeah I know gohan told goku he is getting back from scratch, but maybe it was just in refference to his swiftly moves and techniques, not pure power level.

4. Once frost transformed in final frost form base goku couldn't keep up so he was forced to ascends to ssj and then he easily overhelmed Final form frost.

5. Goku straightly told Picoolo that he has no chance against Final frost form, which just means Picoolo is still weaker then base goku/vegeta.

6. Picoolo asks frost to go back in his forms or just go easy on Picoolo and Frost assures him he doesn't have enough power to kill Picoolo. Considering Frost was still acting as good guy, he just said something he couldn't break without looking suspicious.

7. From dragon ball z we know that Picoolo's beam piercing attack can exceed and multiply his power level by at least x4. Keeping in mind Picoolo is very good techniques and even Tien improved his kikoho technique I can say Picoolo's beam attack is at least x8 muliplier.

8. The title of episode is "Bet Everything on the Makankosappo" so it is just strong hint to anime viewers that Picoolo is clearly outclassed.

9. Frost got at least some heavy hits and hard beating from ssj goku even if it lasted for a bit. so he is at least weakened to 70%-60% of his full power. However keeping in mind that Frost didn't use aura while fighting against Picoolo, I can see weakened tired frost fighting Picoolo with power less then 50%.

10. Frost shooting lasers and engaging Picoolo in hand to hand combat for some time, reminds me namek arc goku vs final form frieza at 2.5%(12 000 000 * 40= 120 000 000). However I will humble and say final from frost was using 10% against picoolo



so here is my power level list based on that:

beerus - 10
ssj goku - 7.5
final form frost/picoolo's Makankosappo- 6.8
base goku - 6.5
Assault form Frost - 6
picoolo/supressed & weakened final form frost(12.5%) - 0.85

so Picoolo's power level depends on if frost's power level dropped due to his clash with ssj goku or if he simply lowered down his ki to be nice guy because Picoolo asked him and he wanted to act as nice guy also the multiplier on Makankosappo, which would at least x4 if Picoolo didn't improve it at all but I am sure he did.

The reason I believe Frost is near full strength vs Piccolo is because he was getting worried while Piccolo was charging if he was holding back he would have powered up to stop Piccolo. The most important thing is that Frost cheated, he should have powered up and got out of Piccolo's grip if he is that much stronger. So for them 2 reasons I beleieve Frost was at nearly full strength.

but:

1. We know Picoolo asked Frost to turn back in forms or at least go easy on Picoolo and Frost assured Picoolo he can not kill him, right ?

2. Frost is simmiliar to frieza so he can control his power level.

3. Frost hasn't used fire like aura around him against Picoolo not even ONCE (so he was at most below 50%)

4. Picoolo's beam piercing attack has at least x4 mulitplier( I assumes x8 for now as Picoolo was master of techniques and that what episode has shown even everyone was praising Picoolo's attack)

5. We know from namek arc that Frieeza against base goku initialy was at 2.5%, so 3 000 000(base goku's pl) * 40 = 120 000 000(offical frieza power level in namek arc)

so we got:

frost - 6.8(100%)
picoolo's beam attack - 6.8 (0.85x8multiplier)
forst - 0.85 (12.5%)
Picoolo - 0.85

why can't everyone just accept that Frost was only using low procents of his power level if it already happened in dragon ball z with frieza and we know history likes to repeat itself ?

Also goku kicked frieza hard in face even although although frieza could power up and prevents it, keep in mind frost wants to pretend to be good guy so he wouldn't power up unless forced and he knows he could use tricks which he believed noone would seen, he was just overconfident.

Also lack of aura makes him Forst at least below 50%, that can not be argued.

[namekiansaiyan]

Ok. To be honest I think Picoolo getting stronger, but how strong I will try to show using evidences from the anime/manga.

1. Good Buu is still considered crazy strong and wanted to be taken as first before Picoolo, that leaves us with Good buu getting stronger or regeneration & stamina advantage matters more then power.

2. Picoolo and base gohan going on par and have been training for 8 months straight, which sound really impressive time to make gain.

3. Dragon ball super is portrayed as everyone getting stronger then ever in z by just training, it seems to be causal theme of it. Yeah I know gohan told goku he is getting back from scratch, but maybe it was just in refference to his swiftly moves and techniques, not pure power level.

4. Once frost transformed in final frost form base goku couldn't keep up so he was forced to ascends to ssj and then he easily overhelmed Final form frost.

5. Goku straightly told Picoolo that he has no chance against Final frost form, which just means Picoolo is still weaker then base goku/vegeta.

6. Picoolo asks frost to go back in his forms or just go easy on Picoolo and Frost assures him he doesn't have enough power to kill Picoolo. Considering Frost was still acting as good guy, he just said something he couldn't break without looking suspicious.

7. From dragon ball z we know that Picoolo's beam piercing attack can exceed and multiply his power level by at least x4. Keeping in mind Picoolo is very good techniques and even Tien improved his kikoho technique I can say Picoolo's beam attack is at least x8 muliplier.

8. The title of episode is "Bet Everything on the Makankosappo" so it is just strong hint to anime viewers that Picoolo is clearly outclassed.

9. Frost got at least some heavy hits and hard beating from ssj goku even if it lasted for a bit. so he is at least weakened to 70%-60% of his full power. However keeping in mind that Frost didn't use aura while fighting against Picoolo, I can see weakened tired frost fighting Picoolo with power less then 50%.

10. Frost shooting lasers and engaging Picoolo in hand to hand combat for some time, reminds me namek arc goku vs final form frieza at 2.5%(12 000 000 * 40= 120 000 000). However I will humble and say final from frost was using 10% against picoolo



so here is my power level list based on that:

beerus - 10
ssj goku - 7.5
final form frost/picoolo's Makankosappo- 6.8
base goku - 6.5
Assault form Frost - 6
picoolo/supressed & weakened final form frost(12.5%) - 0.85

so Picoolo's power level depends on if frost's power level dropped due to his clash with ssj goku or if he simply lowered down his ki to be nice guy because Picoolo asked him and he wanted to act as nice guy also the multiplier on Makankosappo, which would at least x4 if Picoolo didn't improve it at all but I am sure he did.

The reason I believe Frost is near full strength vs Piccolo is because he was getting worried while Piccolo was charging if he was holding back he would have powered up to stop Piccolo. The most important thing is that Frost cheated, he should have powered up and got out of Piccolo's grip if he is that much stronger. So for them 2 reasons I beleieve Frost was at nearly full strength.

but:

1. We know Picoolo asked Frost to turn back in forms or at least go easy on Picoolo and Frost assured Picoolo he can not kill him, right ?

2. Frost is simmiliar to frieza so he can control his power level.

3. Frost hasn't used fire like aura around him against Picoolo not even ONCE (so he was at most below 50%)

4. Picoolo's beam piercing attack has at least x4 mulitplier( I assumes x8 for now as Picoolo was master of techniques and that what episode has shown even everyone was praising Picoolo's attack)

5. We know from namek arc that Frieeza against base goku initialy was at 2.5%, so 3 000 000(base goku's pl) * 40 = 120 000 000(offical frieza power level in namek arc)

so we got:

frost - 6.8(100%)
picoolo's beam attack - 6.8 (0.85x8multiplier)
forst - 0.85 (12.5%)
Picoolo - 0.85

why can't everyone just accept that Frost was only using low procents of his power level if it already happened in dragon ball z with frieza and we know history likes to repeat itself ?

Also goku kicked frieza hard in face even although although frieza could power up and prevents it, keep in mind frost wants to pretend to be good guy so he wouldn't power up unless forced and he knows he could use tricks which he believed noone would seen, he was just overconfident.

Also lack of aura makes him Forst at least below 50%, that can not be argued.

Aura means nothing. You only cheat when you are desperate. It does not matter if Piccolo asked him to go back to his other form because he had a fight with him in his final form and was mostly dominating.

[ssbgoku]

Aura means nothing. You only cheat when you are desperate. It does not matter if Piccolo asked him to go back to his other form because he had a fight with him in his final form and was mostly dominating.

Sure, still it doesn't disapproves Frost being heavily supressed to keep his good atitude for the show. Also you don't cheat when you are only outclassed, because if it helps you saving your stamina/strength and you know you wouldn't be caught(overconfidence) then you still may cheat. Also:

http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/26-1 ... 10-096.jpg

^^ prime example of overconfidence and yet:

http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/26-1 ... 10-098.jpg

^^ Same with Frost shooting lasers beam at Picoolo while he is charging up his beam and escaping and also:

http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/26-1 ... 10-127.jpg

^^ smartness and strategy wining against just pure power level while of course stronger character is supressed.

http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/26-1 ... 10-154.jpg

^^ just like Picoolo could block some Frost's punches while charging special beam attack, same with goku landing few punches on far supperior back then frieza

[namekiansaiyan]

The difference is Frost said to himself he is worried and Frieza wasn't.

[ssbgoku]

The difference is Frost said to himself he is worried and Frieza wasn't.

Frost only said he was worried what would happen if it hit him, he didn't say it would hit him but in case it would then he would be in great danger.
Also after he got out of Picoolo's grip he only smiled and was mocking Picoolo about his strategy being inferior to his own, not his power level, which means he wanted to win with Picoolo using only strategy to prove he is better.

Anyway Picoolo's power level would range from 0.5 - 1.7 in god scale depending on multiplier special beam cannon gives and also if you believe frost was supressed against Picoolo or no. Special beam cannon is at least x4 multiplier and keep that in mind so he is most likely x4 weaker then frost and yet he could kill him with special beam cannon.

[namekiansaiyan]

The difference is Frost said to himself he is worried and Frieza wasn't.

Frost only said he was worried what would happen if it hit him, he didn't say it would hit him but in case it would then he would be in great danger.
Also after he got out of Picoolo's grip he only smiled and was mocking Picoolo about his strategy being inferior to his own, not his power level, which means he wanted to win with Picoolo using only strategy to prove he is better.

Anyway Picoolo's power level would range from 0.5 - 1.7 in god scale depending how on multiplier on special beam cannon and also if you believe frost was supressed against Picoolo or no. Special beam cannon is at least x4 multiplier and keep that in mind so he is most likely x4 weaker then frost and yet he could kill him with special beam cannon.

How was Piccolo's strategy inferior to Frost when Frost's strategy was cheating.

[ssbgoku]

The difference is Frost said to himself he is worried and Frieza wasn't.

Frost only said he was worried what would happen if it hit him, he didn't say it would hit him but in case it would then he would be in great danger.
Also after he got out of Picoolo's grip he only smiled and was mocking Picoolo about his strategy being inferior to his own, not his power level, which means he wanted to win with Picoolo using only strategy to prove he is better.

Anyway Picoolo's power level would range from 0.5 - 1.7 in god scale depending how on multiplier on special beam cannon and also if you believe frost was supressed against Picoolo or no. Special beam cannon is at least x4 multiplier and keep that in mind so he is most likely x4 weaker then frost and yet he could kill him with special beam cannon.

How was Piccolo's strategy inferior to Frost when Frost's strategy was cheating.

Well because Frost didn't think of using it like cheating, that what I get from their battle. Now if he considered it was cheating then it would be the point.

[RandomGuy96]

I just had a thought. If Goku was using his god power as a Super Saiyan, wouldn't his hair be blue? SSGSS is just "a Super Saiyan with the power of a Super Saiyan God", after all.

I'm coming around to the idea that he has an off-switch for the God ki. With it on, he transforms into a SSGSS from a base that's roughly equal in power to Pure Buu, per the fight with Uub (though really it could be anywhere as long as it's way below his SSGSS form). With it off, he just goes through his normal transformations. The gap between Piccolo and SS Goku now seems to be roughly what it was in the Buu arc. Plus, Goku is treated as overconfident for just using Super Saiyan, despite it being treated as much stronger than his base, which I don't think would be the case if either of these forms were anywhere near his God power.

I really wish Super would just devote a single sentence to saying what exactly is going on with these forms. But that would be too much to ask, wouldn't it?

[VegettoEX]

Please remove all scanlation images/links. Account strikes can and will be issued, otherwise.

This includes quoted posts.

[ssbgoku]

Please remove all scanlation images/links. Account strikes can and will be issued, otherwise.

Scanlations and images are removed, I am sorry but it was only way for me to prove my point and open eyes of some people who believed otherwise.
About links, Are they prohibited ?. I mean I get it that it just make website loading slower and could artificaly increase height of page which may hard to read posts.
Is there way I can keep links on the page but masked or something like that, sorry but I am just newbie. Also when editing my post BBCode shows me img tags and url tags so it can not be used, then what is their purpouse ?

[namekiansaiyan]

I just had a thought. If Goku was using his god power as a Super Saiyan, wouldn't his hair be blue? SSGSS is just "a Super Saiyan with the power of a Super Saiyan God", after all.

I'm coming around to the idea that he has an off-switch for the God ki. With it on, he transforms into a SSGSS from a base that's roughly equal in power to Pure Buu, per the fight with Uub (though really it could be anywhere as long as it's way below his SSGSS form). With it off, he just goes through his normal transformations. The gap between Piccolo and SS Goku now seems to be roughly what it was in the Buu arc. Plus, Goku is treated as overconfident for just using Super Saiyan, despite it being treated as much stronger than his base, which I don't think would be the case if either of these forms were anywhere near his God power.

I really wish Super would just devote a single sentence to saying what exactly is going on with these forms. But that would be too much to ask, wouldn't it?

But even if he can switch God ki on or off wouldn't the base still be the same in both. Then God ki only adds power when he transforms and not in his base. He absorbed God power so has to be at least as strong as that in any base anyway.

[Bullza]

He's supposed to be as strong as SSJG as a Super Saiyan, which makes sense because Beerus said that when he was a Super Saiyan and he continued putting up a good fight in Super Saiyan.

From there it just depends on how much stronger Super Saiyan makes him and that isn't clear though we know it does make him stronger.

[DragonHermit]

He's supposed to be as strong as SSJG as a Super Saiyan

No

[ZombieVito]

He's supposed to be as strong as SSJG as a Super Saiyan

No

Did you watch episode 13?

[Bullza]

Exactly why the "no"? In both the movie and Super, Beerus tells Goku when he's a Super Saiyan that he'd absorbed the power of SSJG so his power didn't really drop at all.

So SSJG = SSJ > Base