I feel Vegeta wanting to surpass Goku again is ruining DB

[Ddd]

Not only is this going against his character development in the boo arc, and also ruining goku as a side effect, but it's also making him way less interesting. If his speech didn't really mean shit, and he's still a jealous little prick who actually surpassed goku with no explanation than he's not vegeta anymore.

[sintzu]

When did he say he was going to stop trying to surpass him ?

[LordCrumb]

And Goku will forever be the child-like adult who abandons his family at any chance to train or fight, and put the planet at risk in doing so...

It's who his character is. Changing it, changes the character we all know and love.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Vegeta is a saiyan, the desire for fighting and becoming stronger will never cease, it's in his blood, even Goku accepted that was something about himself he couldn't change even if he wanted to.

Anyways, being the main character Goku will inevitably always pass Vegeta, hence there will always be a desire for him to catch up. Keep in mind the two are friends now. If anything his development in the Buu arc is now more realistic because he thinks of Goku as someone he can train with to get stronger himself.

[ABED]

Not only is this going against his character development in the boo arc, and also ruining goku as a side effect, but it's also making him way less interesting. If his speech didn't really mean shit, and he's still a jealous little prick who actually surpassed goku with no explanation than he's not vegeta anymore.

That wasn't his development. I don't know why anyone thinks Vegeta's revelation is that he doesn't want to be better than Goku. His epiphany was that he can recognize Goku as the best and it doesn't make him feel insecure. As a warrior, he still wants to be the best, those two things aren't antithetical.

[Vynak]

Vegeta wants to ultimately surpass everyone, not just Goku, and be the strongest in the universe(s). This has pretty much been his overall goal from day one. Not sure how it's ruining Goku, if anything their rivalry is healthier and more fun to watch now as the serious "I'm going to surpass and kill you" theme is gone.

If you want a post Buu Vegeta that doesn't care about fighting or being the best, watch GT because there's your desired neutered Vegeta (along with the entire rest of the cast who isn't Goku). Super definitely has its flaws but the Vegeta/Goku rivalry isn't one of them.

[TheMikado]

Vegeta wants to ultimately surpass everyone, not just Goku, and be the strongest in the universe(s). This has pretty much been his overall goal from day one. Not sure how it's ruining Goku, if anything their rivalry is healthier and more fun to watch now as the serious "I'm going to surpass and kill you" theme is gone.

If you want a post Buu Vegeta that doesn't care about fighting or being the best, watch GT because there's your desired neutered Vegeta (along with the entire rest of the cast who isn't Goku). Super definitely has its flaws but the Vegeta/Goku rivalry isn't one of them.

How is Vegeta neutered in GT. He and his family run the largest corporation on Earth, essentially he's the Earth's closest equivalent to King. He's got a wife, kids, and his own life. Dragonball has always been about Goku and his story. I'm no Goku fan and am a huge Vegeta one, but I would much rather him maintain his Saiyan pride and dignity but doing stuff that matters like building his heritage and legacy on Earth then following Goku around in whatever stupid adventure he gets himself involved in. Vegeta is not really the fun loving, adventurous type and I'm glad they didn't try to shoehorn him into that role like in Super where he's basically Gokus wingman....ugh. The prince of Saiyans should have MUCH better things to do than running around in a pink apron. I'll never forgive Super for that.

[Hellspawn28]

If you want a post Buu Vegeta that doesn't care about fighting or being the best, watch GT because there's your desired neutered Vegeta (along with the entire rest of the cast who isn't Goku). Super definitely has its flaws but the Vegeta/Goku rivalry isn't one of them.

I remember Vegeta got mad that Goku became a SSj4 in GT and wanted to surpass again IIRC.

[Vynak]

How is Vegeta neutered in GT. He and his family run the largest corporation on Earth, essentially he's the Earth's closest equivalent to King. He's got a wife, kids, and his own life. Dragonball has always been about Goku and his story. I'm no Goku fan and am a huge Vegeta one, but I would much rather him maintain his Saiyan pride and dignity but doing stuff that matters like building his heritage and legacy on Earth then following Goku around in whatever stupid adventure he gets himself involved in. Vegeta is not really the fun loving, adventurous type and I'm glad they didn't try to shoehorn him into that role like in Super where he's basically Gokus wingman....ugh. The prince of Saiyans should have MUCH better things to do than running around in a pink apron. I'll never forgive Super for that.

Bulma and her family run the largest corporation on Earth. Vegeta just married into it. He also has never particularly cared about leaving a 'legacy' and running a human corporation and becoming so enmeshed with human life that he no longer cared about fighting/being the best wouldn't sit well with his saiyan pride. He became a shell of the person he used to be. (Also his new clothes / random haircut were an insult).

Super's portrayal of Vegeta is leagues above GT. At least I can recognize him, his important character traits are still intact. The interactions between Goku and Vegeta are pretty realistic and speak to Vegeta's continued character growth in that aspect. The pink apron thing is just a joke going back to the badman shirt (there have been a lot more cringe worthy jokes at Vegeta's expense in Super than the apron).

[Onibaku]

That speech was just Vegeta acknowledging Goku on his part, however this doesn't mean Vegeta is just going to sit down and watch Goku get stronger and stronger. Vegeta has been wanting to become the strongest warrior in the universe since day 1

[TheMikado]

Bulma and her family run the largest corporation on Earth. Vegeta just married into it. He also has never particularly cared about leaving a 'legacy' and running a human corporation and becoming so enmeshed with human life that he no longer cared about fighting/being the best wouldn't sit well with his saiyan pride. He became a shell of the person he used to be. (Also his new clothes / random haircut were an insult).

Super's portrayal of Vegeta is leagues above GT. At least I can recognize him, his important character traits are still intact. The interactions between Goku and Vegeta are pretty realistic and speak to Vegeta's continued character growth in that aspect. The pink apron thing is just a joke going back to the badman shirt (there have been a lot more cringe worthy jokes at Vegeta's expense in Super than the apron).

And Vegeta was BORN Prince of the Saiyans. As royalty he would be well acquainted with marrying into status and wealth. If you think Vegeta doesn't care about pride or Legacy then you haven't been watching Vegeta at all. Fighting and being the "best" is the least of Vegeta's concerns. His personal issue has always been being shown up by a "low-class" Saiyan. In DBZ he was preoccupied with it as he and Goku were literally the last Saiyans alive, Goku was the legendary SSJ. And the Prince of Saiyans literal had nothing at all. He was shown up by a low class saiyan who got revenge for a race and planet that he never know, Became the legendary SSJ and comes back to his home on Earth with his family while Vegeta is left homeless and broken... In GT, he considered himself above all that as he was now Earth's upperclass, where he belongs and is no longer homeless, plus he and specifically says he is a Saiyan who calls Earth his home. Super is a regression of his development of chancing after Goku because he literally had nothing else to live for and finding his own fulfillment in life.

In terms of recognition, even the Mustache was a homage to King Vegeta. As far as his haircut and clothes, that's pretty much exactly what I picture a naturalized Vegeta in Earth clothing would pick out for himself. He's an @$$hole and would definitely wear @$$hole clothes and not care one bit.

Anyway no Vegeta short of the Vegeta in Super would put up with half the crap he's taken especially after being disrespected & embarrassed by Beerus NUMEROUS Times. I do this constantly because this is not how the Prince of Saiyans acts...

1) Beerus beat up his father over a Pillow in Vegeta's own kingdom during a celebration In Beerus honor.
2) Vegeta fights Beerus and get beat up too as a child
3) Beerus slaps his wife (The prince of Saiyans queen)
4) Beerus insults and embarrasses him, even calling him servant boy.

^ What version of Vegeta would put up with that constant disrespect. The Vegeta people actually like would be in a seething rage over even one of those things but to let the same person do them all and then allow him to treat you like a complete ....... is so far outside Vegeta's actual character its disgusting.

[ABED]

But the Saiyan society values physical power. The basis for its culture is power, not wealth. Their class system was based around strength, not how much money they acquire.

is so far outside Vegeta's actual character its disgusting.

Well, he's changed. He knows he's not in any position to do anything about it... yet.

[TheMikado]

But the Saiyan society values physical power. The basis for its culture is power, not wealth. Their class system was based around strength, not how much money they acquire.

is so far outside Vegeta's actual character its disgusting.

Well, he's changed. He knows he's not in any position to do anything about it... yet.

I didn't say he was after wealth, I was merely pointing out that as royalty he would be familiar with the process of marriages of convenience. Their system is based on physical power but it is not the end-all be-all. It is also based on political power and cunning, which is why King Vegeta is King. It was never said that it was due to his physical power but he is uniquely intelligent by Saiyan standards. At Tarbel levels.

As far as not being able to do anything about it, this has literally NEVER stopped Vegeta in the past. It's NOT in his character to play coy to the point of embarrassment for gain later. It didn't matter if it was Goku, Cell, Buu, whoever. Even when Vegeta KNEW he had no shot he uses every last ounce of his pride to stand against that foe. We are not seeing that from Vegeta right now, but if we are going to say its part of his character development then it takes away the whole reason people like Vegeta in the first place.

[Kamiccolo9]

As far as not being able to do anything about it, this has literally NEVER stopped Vegeta in the past. It's NOT in his character to play coy to the point of embarrassment for gain later.

Except for that whole most of his life he spent as Freeza's lackey, but sure.

[ABED]

It is also based on political power and cunning, which is why King Vegeta is King. It was never said that it was due to his physical power but he is uniquely intelligent by Saiyan standards. At Tarbel levels.

I don't know who Tarbel is, but the Saiyan culture wasn't expanded upon in series beyond that they valued strength and battle above all else. If King Vegeta was King it was because he was either the strongest or he killed anyone that posed a threat.

As far as not being able to do anything about it, this has literally NEVER stopped Vegeta in the past.

"In the past" being the operative phrase. He changed over time. I don't think he's playing coy, he's just not as reckless in the face of an opponent he knows he can't defeat at least not in the heat of the moment like when he went into a blind rage after Beerus hit Bulma. Now he's calm and knows more about the kind of being Beerus is.

[TheMikado]

It is also based on political power and cunning, which is why King Vegeta is King. It was never said that it was due to his physical power but he is uniquely intelligent by Saiyan standards. At Tarbel levels.

I don't know who Tarbel is, but the Saiyan culture wasn't expanded upon in series beyond that they valued strength and battle above all else. If King Vegeta was King it was because he was either the strongest or he killed anyone that posed a threat.

As far as not being able to do anything about it, this has literally NEVER stopped Vegeta in the past.

"In the past" being the operative phrase. He changed over time. I don't think he's playing coy, he's just not as reckless in the face of an opponent he knows he can't defeat at least not in the heat of the moment like when he went into a blind rage after Beerus hit Bulma. Now he's calm and knows more about the kind of being Beerus is.

I meant Tuffles, Tarble is Vegeta's brother, and they did explain exactly what happened. Vegeta is King because he as smart as a Tuffle and came up with the plan to overtake them. After it was successful they made him King because be was the smartest Saiyan, not the most powerful. In fact Vegeta says he was a child when he had already overtaken his father in power.

So you think Vegeta suffering indignation and playing Goku's wingman is consistent with Vegeta's character development?? He's not even acting like Vegeta anymore he's acting more like Tien or Yamcha.

[Vynak]

And Vegeta was BORN Prince of the Saiyans. As royalty he would be well acquainted with marrying into status and wealth. If you think Vegeta doesn't care about pride or Legacy then you haven't been watching Vegeta at all. Fighting and being the "best" is the least of Vegeta's concerns.

Actually fighting & being the best is number one on Vegeta's list of concerns and pretty much always has been. It's where he draws his pride from, not marrying into status and wealth. Status & wealth would be the secondary benefits of being the best. He's a saiyan, saiyans value strength and fighting ability over all else.

Anyway no Vegeta short of the Vegeta in Super would put up with half the crap he's taken especially after being disrespected & embarrassed by Beerus NUMEROUS Times.

Yeah it's pretty cringeworthy to watch, but he doesn't exactly have a lot of options. He's not strong enough to defeat Beerus and Beerus will likely kill him, his family, and everyone on Earth if he chooses to challenge him. What else should he do? Besides, Vegeta is a pro at biding his time. He dealt with being Freeza's underling for most of his life and god knows he kept his grudge against Goku for many years.

[ABED]

Disregarding the filler argument, the strategy was brute force. They waited for the full moon, it's a simple strategy that took more common sense than it did intelligence. Sure, Vegeta overtook his father, but it's not expanded upon beyond that. We don't know much about Vegeta's relationship with his dad beyond Vegeta mentioning that he overtook his father years ago. There's no antipathy there, so maybe they had a good reltionship. Who knows? Point being, you can't infer much from that.

So you think Vegeta suffering indignation and playing Goku's wingman is consistent with Vegeta's character development?

Yes, now that he's smarter, he won't just foolishly attack someone he absolutely knows he can't defeat? When he's in a fit of rage it's a different story, but this is consistent. In the Buu arc his epiphany was he can recognize Goku as the better fighter and it doesn't make him feel insecure. It's similar to not throwing yourself foolishly into a battle that you can't win simply because someone insults you. It would be a different story if Vegeta was Beerus's equal.

[TheMikado]

Vegeta says the only reason he agreed to serve Frieza is because he threatened his father. He told Goku this while on Namek. There were other things that implied Vegeta had a strong relationship with his father, you have to look them up.

As far as Vegeta not attacking someone stronger than him this has NEVER been part of his personality, particularly if that person did some great injustice to him. Even his ability to recognize Goku comes from not being disrespected and actually respected by Goku. For Vegeta to suddenly not care or acknowledge great disrespect of himself, family, heritage goes against everything we know about Vegeta since he was a child... If like Piccolo suddenly breaking out and song and being extrovert. It's not part of his personality and not a a character development it's a personality change.

[Kamiccolo9]

As far as Vegeta not attacking someone stronger than him this has NEVER been part of his personality, particularly if that person did some great injustice to him.

Again, you're ignoring the majority of his life, when he was Freeza's whipping boy.