I feel Vegeta wanting to surpass Goku again is ruining DB

[TheMikado]

As far as Vegeta not attacking someone stronger than him this has NEVER been part of his personality, particularly if that person did some great injustice to him.

Again, you're ignoring the majority of his life, when he was Freeza's whipping boy.

He was Frieza's whipping boy because Frieza told Vegeta he would kill his father. Look it up in his wiki. Also Vegeta isn't treated badly at all. Given a spot as an elite and his own squad and retains his title a Prince. Furthermore Frieza actually takes his side on some argues like in a conflict Vegeta had with guido. Basically nothing like this Beerus mess.

[Kamiccolo9]

As far as Vegeta not attacking someone stronger than him this has NEVER been part of his personality, particularly if that person did some great injustice to him.

Again, you're ignoring the majority of his life, when he was Freeza's whipping boy.

He was Frieza's whipping boy because Frieza told Vegeta he would kill his father. Look it up in his wiki. Also Vegeta isn't treated badly at all. Given a spot as an elite and his own squad and retains his title a Prince. Furthermore Frieza actually takes his side on some argues like in a conflict Vegeta had with guido. Basically nothing like this Beerus mess.

Don't quote the wiki to me. And Vegeta was Freeza's whipping boy even after his father was killed.

And filler? Really?

[Soppa Saia People]

Look it up in his wiki

Lol, no. Besides telling someone to look it up (on a unreliable source to) isn't exactly helping your argument (also makes you look lazy).

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

I was peeved when Super started, but at the moment I think Vegeta is actually right where I would have put him. He is easily the most patient we have ever seen him, in both his manner and how he tempers his outbursts and bites the humiliation bullet, and seems to have found a way to connect with Goku does not make him want to hurl.

[TheMikado]

Look it up in his wiki

Lol, no. Besides telling someone to look it up (on a unreliable source to) isn't exactly helping your argument (also makes you look lazy).

I am lazy, what's your point? And no, Vegeta wasnt wearing pink Aprons for Frieza or letting Frieza call him servant boy, it's not even close.

[Soppa Saia People]

Look it up in his wiki

Lol, no. Besides telling someone to look it up (on a unreliable source to) isn't exactly helping your argument (also makes you look lazy).

I am lazy, what's your point? And no, Vegeta wasnt wearing pink Aprons for Frieza or letting Frieza call him servant boy, it's not even close.

My point is the Wiki sucks. It's very unreliable and shouldn't be used in a argument.

[Vynak]

He was Frieza's whipping boy because Frieza told Vegeta he would kill his father. Look it up in his wiki.

King Vegeta was killed when Vegeta was like 5 so...

[TheMikado]

He was Frieza's whipping boy because Frieza told Vegeta he would kill his father. Look it up in his wiki.

King Vegeta was killed when Vegeta was like 5 so...

how does that make it less valid? Like I said, we never see Vegeta treated poorly by Frieza and actually appears that he is considered among his elite.

My point is the Wiki sucks. It's very unreliable and shouldn't be used in a argument.

So is the very specific thing I referenced false? That's like saying the Bible is full of made up stories so Egyptians never existed.

[Vynak]

He was Frieza's whipping boy because Frieza told Vegeta he would kill his father. Look it up in his wiki.

King Vegeta was killed when Vegeta was like 5 so...

how does that make it less valid? Like I said, we never see Vegeta treated poorly by Frieza and actually appears that he is considered among his elite.

You are all over the map with your arguments. You state that Vegeta not attacking someone stronger than him has never been part of his personality, especially if a "great injustice" has been done, ignoring the fact he served under Freeza for a good chunk of his life. If we are talking about "great injustices done", I believe Freeza would win hands down, considering he wiped out almost all the saiyans, destroyed their planet, lied to Vegeta about what happened, and kept him alive simply to use him for his fighting abilities. The entire thing was a big joke to Freeza, that's way more humiliating & personal than the situation with Beerus. Beerus is just bored and fickle.

The fact still remains that Vegeta wanted to overthrow Freeza his entire life but couldn't due to lacking the power so bided his time. He can't defeat Beerus either only at least this time around he's getting the benefit of training with Whis so it sort of makes it worthwhile.

[Lord Beerus]

I don't see how Vegeta wanting surpass Goku is ruining Dragon Ball. He may have accepted that Goku was stronger than him, but that doesn't mean he will quit everything and just stop training. His main goal in life has always been to become the strongest in the universe and nothing going to stop him from achieving that.

[TheMikado]

You are all over the map with your arguments. You state that Vegeta not attacking someone stronger than him has never been part of his personality, especially if a "great injustice" has been done, ignoring the fact he served under Freeza for a good chunk of his life. If we are talking about "great injustices done", I believe Freeza would win hands down, considering he wiped out almost all the saiyans, destroyed their planet, lied to Vegeta about what happened, and kept him alive simply to use him for his fighting abilities. The entire thing was a big joke to Freeza, that's way more humiliating & personal than the situation with Beerus. Beerus is just bored and fickle.

The fact still remains that Vegeta wanted to overthrow Freeza his entire life but couldn't due to lacking the power so bided his time. He can't defeat Beerus either only at least this time around he's getting the benefit of training with Whis so it sort of makes it worthwhile.

Wait so you are comparing Vegeta being humiliated in wearing a pink apron, and used as footstool and mockingly called servant boy, to being considered one of Frieza's elite, given his own group to command and being allowed to retain the title of Prince? Yes Frieza did bad things to Vegeta, but he didn't further humiliate Vegeta because he has a personality type where further humiliation would have PISSED Vegeta off, and it did. Personality-wise if Frieza tried the things that Beerus did Vegeta would have fought Frieza over the insult to his pride. Its pretty clear Frieza wasn't mentally abusing him, humiliating him, and insulting Vegeta on a daily basis.

Again I feel like people are not understanding Vegeta's personality. Its the same reason Vegeta can be in Goku's presence after being beaten by him. Goku isn't taunting him and treating him like trash, he treats him like a respectable fighter and respects him in the same way that Frieza gave Vegeta power and positions. Its not insulting eventhough internally Vegeta doesn't like it, he still gets to keep his dignity. Beerus does not allow Vegeta to keep any dignity whatsoever, and Vegeta's personality that we have seen for years would never allow that unless it was in an extreme moment of weakness.

[ABED]

Vegeta wouldn't take too kind to being humiliated but he only attacked Beerus when someone he cared for was hurt. Before then, he was too scared to attack. He doesn't fight stronger villains any time he's insulted. When has Vegeta fought someone he didn't think he at least think he had a chance of beating unless he felt sufficient provocation? By sufficient, I'm not talking about a schoolyard insult.

I feel like people are not understanding Vegeta's personality.

I don't think you do either.

Vegeta's personality that we have seen for years would never allow that

Such as? And even assuming you are right, he went through a big change.

[Kamiccolo9]

Freeza kept Vegeta as a pet. Look at how Kui, Dodoria, Zarbon, and the Ginyus treat him. Vegeta spent decades being a good little whipped dog, keeping his head down. That's why he hated Freeza so much in the first place.

[Bansho64]

Freeza kept Vegeta as a pet. Look at how Kui, Dodoria, Zarbon, and the Ginyus treat him. Vegeta spent decades being a good little whipped dog, keeping his head down. That's why he hated Freeza so much in the first place.

Exactly. Goku states after Vegeta's death that the reason for his anger and sadness wasn't at the death of his comrades, his father, or even his own planet. It was the fact that Freeza molded him into his own personal play toy that truly hurt Vegeta.

[TheMikado]

Vegeta wouldn't take too kind to being humiliated but he only attacked Beerus when someone he cared for was hurt. Before then, he was too scared to attack. He doesn't fight stronger villains any time he's insulted. When has Vegeta fought someone he didn't think he at least think he had a chance of beating unless he felt sufficient provocation? By sufficient, I'm not talking about a schoolyard insult.

Literally every big bad. The whole Ginyu force, Zarbon, Frieza, Androids, Cell, Majin gang, Buu, Super 17... literally everyone.

Freeza kept Vegeta as a pet. Look at how Kui, Dodoria, Zarbon, and the Ginyus treat him. Vegeta spent decades being a good little whipped dog, keeping his head down. That's why he hated Freeza so much in the first place.

Seriously this is something that makes zero sense base on Frieza's own comments about Vegeta. Yes the other elite hated him because they felt he received special treatment, even remarking SEVERAL times that Frieza wasn't around to protect him.

Just a few examples:


"The boy doesn't mean any harm, Zarbon. He just hasn't learned how to control his passion. Give him the hardest assignment that you have, and Vegeta... do come back alive."
— Frieza when responding the young Vegeta's plea for another combat assignment.

At one point during his time serving under Frieza, Vegeta gets into a squabble with the Ginyu Force member Guldo, over how Vegeta is more important in the eyes of Frieza. Guldo mocks Vegeta for being a Saiyan and says he should take orders from them, and Vegeta responds that Guldo takes orders from Frieza the same as he does and mocks Guldo for being a "four-eyed freak". As the angry Guldo prepares to attack Vegeta, Frieza arrives and blasts Guldo away. Frieza then has Vegeta come with him to conquer a planet.

These instances show more respect and care than most people gave Vegeta. At the same time Frieza is the emperor and isn't about to wipe out his own forces for mistreating him. Its pretty clear Frieza had a soft spot for Vegeta one way or another and at least treated him with at least a little respect.

Like I said Vegeta didn't take well to mocking even then as he had to restrain himself from fighting Zarbon over stupid comments on various occasions. I understand character development, Piccolo is a fine example as he maintains his personality. His reaction to things is the same as before just muted because of his character development. I.E. The same things tick him off whether he was bad or good. Vegeta's isn't muted or indignant Super, its unquestioning and embarrassingly compliant which is the exact opposite of what Vegeta is. Even with Bulma in Z he always begrudgingly complies which is what I expect of Vegeta and was consistent throughout the entirety of Z because that's PERSONALITY. Super is a personality swap for Vegeta not a development like Piccolo.

[TheMikado]

Freeza kept Vegeta as a pet. Look at how Kui, Dodoria, Zarbon, and the Ginyus treat him. Vegeta spent decades being a good little whipped dog, keeping his head down. That's why he hated Freeza so much in the first place.

Exactly. Goku states after Vegeta's death that the reason for his anger and sadness wasn't at the death of his comrades, his father, or even his own planet. It was the fact that Freeza molded him into his own personal play toy that truly hurt Vegeta.

No Vegeta said Frieza made him ruthless which is different than using him as a personal play toy like youre trying to say.

After his defeat at the hands of Frieza, Vegeta tearfully explains to Goku that Frieza forced him to be ruthless and that he never had the chance to be anything else (implying that he could have been kinder and more merciful were it not for Frieza).

[Kamiccolo9]

Every single line you just gave was either made up in the Funimation Dub, or a filler scene that was messed up by the dub.

[ABED]

Did he say that in the dub? He's ruthless by nature. I think you are going by the dub. What's more, you are using filler as the basis for your argument. The only times he attacks Zarbon are when he thinks he's strong than him, the second time being true.

Regarding Piccolo, he does a complete 180.

[TheMikado]

Every single line you just gave was either made up in the Funimation Dub, or a filler scene that was messed up by the dub.

Then please tell me what was actually said in the Guldo exchange and the exchange between Zarbon and Frieza. I'd love to know what was actually said...

[ABED]

Every single line you just gave was either made up in the Funimation Dub, or a filler scene that was messed up by the dub.

Then please tell me what was actually said in the Guldo exchange and the exchange between Zarbon and Frieza. I'd love to know what was actually said...

Both are filler scenes. Look, Freeza doesn't seem to physically abuse Vegeta, but the Saiyans aren't highly respected in the inner circle. They look down on the Saiyans to their face. Hell, the Ginyu Force constantly mocked him, but Vegeta waits to make his move.