Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[dbzfan7]

I already said it. Piccolo is Jesus and should have trained Goku instead of Whis.

[Bullza]

Gohan even in Base is way stronger than Piccolo.

I worded that badly, I meant a much weaker sparring partner. Goku sparred Vegeta while Piccolo sparred with Gohan.

The same as how no commented about how Goku's Base or SSj ki being way lower than the previous arcs.

If the God power was something they could turn on and off then they wouldn't. They'd be used to it if he'd been roaming around on Earth for months with the God power switched off.

Though they could have made a comment that they were holding back.

Either way it's like what I said before, all of this power level stuff with Piccolo comes down to one of two things

The theory about having two base Goku's who can switch on and off his God power is somewhat accurate

Or

It's just terrible terrible writing and Piccolo just happened to have even more latent ability than Frieza despite not being a prodigy and him training his entire life.

No special training, a short period of training time, no Namekian book of Legends power up, no fusion, no transformation, no real comments from anyone and he still loses.

In the movie base Goku is going toe to toe and taking and giving hits and keeping up with a pretty serious Beerus. Were supposed to believe that Piccolo is much stronger than that Goku? That he'd actually be able to put up a worthwhile fight against Beerus? Just by sparring for a few months with Gohan?

[Lord Frieza]

Final thoughts on Magenta's power level. He doesn't seem that strong to me and definitely not very fast. Seems his primary power is elemental. Even his lava blast wasn't enough to do anything to the barrier when Vegeta did a single punch and knocked so hard he knocked frost into it and broke it. Vegeta doesn't even bother to go SSJ or even block his attacks. The only attack Vegeta did seemed to imply his body was made of super hard metal and nothing to do with actual power.

I'm sure it will hurt if he hits Vegeta due to that metal but I doubt it would actually injure him. To me, Magetta minus his elemental powers looks weaker than frost and maybe botoma levels of power.

I have to disagree with you here. Its quite clear that Magetta is strong. While he isent very fast to begin with you'll notice that his speed is increasing as the fight progresses and he is very durable as Vegeta has done no damage to him with any of his attacks. The most he's done was push Magetta's head down which by the looks of things its a natural function of his body. The reason that none of his attacks are effecting the barrier is likely because this new barrier is stronger then the last.

The reason Magetta dosen't seem so powerful to start with is because he dosen't power up like other characters do. The reason he's constantly banging on his body is because that's how he powers up and Vegeta hitting him on the head only helped things along. Thats also why he swallowed some of Vegeta's ki attacks, his body is like a volcano and its power increases due to the pressure and flow of energy within himself. The downside of course is that he can't power up normally but is durable body seems to make up for that.

He's power is going to keep increasing if the preview is anything to go by. He actually develops an aura.

[buutenks]

Whis stated that the saiyan's base is far weaker than the power of the gods.

So most likely, while base goku and vegeta became much stronger, they arent nowhere near ssj god.

[Noah]

If Magetta is gonna force Vegeta to turn Super Saiyan Blue then it would seem that Magetta is stronger than a Super Saiyan.

At this rate I'd guess the strenght of the Universe 7 members has something to do with the order they're fighting in so

Hit > Cabba > Magetta > Frost > Botamo

I don't see how that is possible, so "base" Cabba is probably stronger or on pair with SSGSS Vegeta? I don't think so, Vegeta will probably defeat Magetta as a SSJ.

[TheMikado]

If Magetta is gonna force Vegeta to turn Super Saiyan Blue then it would seem that Magetta is stronger than a Super Saiyan.

At this rate I'd guess the strenght of the Universe 7 members has something to do with the order they're fighting in so

Hit > Cabba > Magetta > Frost > Botamo

I don't see how that is possible, so "base" Cabba is probably stronger or on pair with SSGSS Vegeta? I don't think so, Vegeta will probably defeat Magetta as a SSJ.

Cabbas base being at least SSJ tier is not going to sit well with Goku and Vegeta. Meaning they will do whatever training Cabba does which will only further the already confusing power level issue.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Whis stated that the saiyan's base is far weaker than the power of the gods.

So most likely, while base goku and vegeta became much stronger, they arent nowhere near ssj god.

Was this stated before or after the training?

[fexus]

Well, now it's obvious that Piccolo is at least stronger than Base Goku and Vegeta. But still not as strong as Final Form Frost and SSJ Goku or Vegata.
I really don't get why people still think Goku and Vegeta need God ki to increase the power in their Base. They can still increase their power to ridiculous level when they don't use God ki. Maybe for example what Goku absorbed was the power of God but not the properties of it.

[Bullza]

I'd be surprised if Cabba has his fight with just his base form. There's gotta be more to him than that.

[Vice]

The way I see it, the tournament tiers break down like this:

Monaka/Hit
Super Saiyan Blue
Cabba
Super Saiyan/Magetta
Piccolo/Frost
Base Saiyans/Boo/Botamo

[apex_pretador]

The way I see it, the tournament tiers break down like this:

Monaka/Hit
Super Saiyan Blue
Cabba
Super Saiyan/Magetta
Piccolo/Frost
Base Saiyans/Boo/Botamo

I don't see cabba being above frost. However, it can only be confirmed later.

Magatta was getting punked by BASE vegeta. He only kept up with base vegeta with his fire blasts, which were probably formed from absorption of vegeta's energy based attacks.

[namekiansaiyan]

The way I see it, the tournament tiers break down like this:

Monaka/Hit
Super Saiyan Blue
Cabba
Super Saiyan/Magetta
Piccolo/Frost
Base Saiyans/Boo/Botamo

I don't see cabba being above frost. However, it can only be confirmed later.

Magatta was getting punked by BASE vegeta. He only kept up with base vegeta with his fire blasts, which were probably formed from absorption of vegeta's energy based attacks.

I think all universe 6 fighters apart from hit are between base Saiayns and super saiayns.
I doubt we will see SSBSS simply because Vegeta is struggling badly but won't transform which is just ridiculous.

[Hugo Boss]

Whis stated that the saiyan's base is far weaker than the power of the gods. So, most likely, while base goku and vegeta became much stronger, they arent nowhere near ssj god.

Was this stated before or after the training?

After their first day of training together.

[ZombieVito]

The way I see it, the tournament tiers break down like this:

Monaka/Hit
Super Saiyan Blue
Cabba
Super Saiyan/Magetta
Piccolo/Frost
Base Saiyans/Boo/Botamo

I can't see Piccolo being in the same tier as Frost. He needed the Makankosappo to beat a already weakened Frost.

[namekiansaiyan]

The way I see it, the tournament tiers break down like this:

Monaka/Hit
Super Saiyan Blue
Cabba
Super Saiyan/Magetta
Piccolo/Frost
Base Saiyans/Boo/Botamo

I can't see Piccolo being in the same tier as Frost. He needed the Makankosappo to beat a already weakened Frost.

It is still his power and move its not some external power and we will probably never get an answer to this question either.

[Hugo Boss]

Actually, we don't even know how Vegeta will defeat Magetta, Boo didn't fight any contestant, and there is no way to tell exactly how powerful are Monaka, Hit and Cabba yet.

[ZombieVito]

So for anyone that believes the non god base theory, how strong are Goku and Vegeta in the Champa arc in base?

BoG: 80 - 100 million.
U6: ?

[LightBing]

So for anyone that believes the non god base theory, how strong are Goku and Vegeta in the Champa arc in base?

BoG: 80 - 100 million.
U6: ?

Wow! You have them high in the BoG. Anyway, going by power scaling in the RoF, where first form Freeza destroyed a weak SSJ Gohan and Goku handily dealt with Final Form Freeza. Let's see..., maybe Super Boo/SSJ3 Gotenks level. This assuming SSJ Gohan is as strong as his SSJ2 self during the Boo Arc.
I thought he had his Ultimate power in SSJ but looking at the facts thread, he definitely seems weaker. How much is the question.

[ZombieVito]

So for anyone that believes the non god base theory, how strong are Goku and Vegeta in the Champa arc in base?

BoG: 80 - 100 million.
U6: ?

Wow! You have them high in the BoG. Anyway, going by power scaling in the RoF, where first form Freeza destroyed a weak SSJ Gohan and Goku handily dealt with Final Form Freeza. Let's see..., maybe Super Boo/SSJ3 Gotenks level. This assuming SSJ Gohan is as strong as his SSJ2 self during the Boo Arc.
I thought he had his Ultimate power in SSJ but looking at the facts thread, he definitely seems weaker. How much is the question.

I see 100 million as the maximum power they can have and still lose against Freeza.

I don't think you understood my question. I'm asking about their base without the god power. There's no way Piccolo is over Super Boo or Gotenks without any statement on the matter.

[LightBing]

I see 100 million as the maximum power they can have and still lose against Freeza.

I don't think you understood my question. I'm asking about their base without the god power. There's no way Piccolo is over Super Boo or Gotenks without any statement on the matter.

I understood the question. I believe Goku only had "God power" in base during the fight with Beerus. All or most information after contradicts him having it further, including the tournament that's currently happening. The most telling is this direct comparison statement from Whis:

Spoiler:

Episode 18
Minute: 17
Context: Whis provides highly detailed expository dialogue.
Oracle Fish: "Maybe your training is a bit too tough? At this rate, those two are going to die. You could at least have them become those "Super Saiyan" things."
Whis: "That wouldn't do, at all."
Oracle Fish: "It wouldn't?"
Whis: "Those two have just barely reached the level where they can sense the ki of a god. If that castle up there were the level of the gods, then their power is only about this high. They need to raise the level of their ki without becoming Super Saiyan. Otherwise, they won't be able to grow much stronger, since they won't be able to see the realm which lies ahead. Most likely, those two realize this themselves. After all, I never once told them not to become Super Saiyans."
Oracle Fish: "Well, whatever. Just don't kill them."

I can see Piccolo powering up that far without any statements, simply because he's still very far of what matters (God Tier). There's precedent of weaker characters getting stronger but nobody saying anything, because they don't matter in the new status quo. For example the humans in the android arc, I think even Gohan before the RoSaT.

It's very hard to low-ball Piccolo even further.

In RoF we have:

Piccolo < Base Gohan < SSJ Gohan < First Form Freeza < Final Form Freeza < Base Goku

It depends were one put's each character at. But at the very least, Piccolo currently received a significant power up.

What do you think?