Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
- apex_pretador
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Re: Uni 6 and Uni 7 power chains
in decreasing order of power:
Beerus
_________________
SSB = Golden freeza
SSB (RoF)
SSG
Super Saiyan goku / vegeta
(??? Super Vegetto ???)
Final form frost full power
Base goku / 3rd form frost
Final form freeza
(??? Super vegetto ???)
3rd form freeza , tired frost
Buuhan
1st form frost , Piccolo , Gohan
1st form freeza , Super buu
Fat buu , SS gohan , Botamo
Tagoma FP , Ginyu tagoma , SPC ,
RoF piccolo & gohan
Again, this is my opinion
Beerus
_________________
SSB = Golden freeza
SSB (RoF)
SSG
Super Saiyan goku / vegeta
(??? Super Vegetto ???)
Final form frost full power
Base goku / 3rd form frost
Final form freeza
(??? Super vegetto ???)
3rd form freeza , tired frost
Buuhan
1st form frost , Piccolo , Gohan
1st form freeza , Super buu
Fat buu , SS gohan , Botamo
Tagoma FP , Ginyu tagoma , SPC ,
RoF piccolo & gohan
Again, this is my opinion
- ZombieVito
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Let's see how this goes. I tried a list where base Godku was as close as possible to Oob.
Spoiler:
- apex_pretador
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
I don'tknow where the idea of two bases coming from, but here are the issues:Zombie wrote:Let's see how this goes. I tried a list where base Godku was as close as possible to Oob.
Spoiler:
- In U6 arc, if Super Saiyan Goku is so much weaker than base goku from RoF, then why didn't anyone notice? Neither piccolo, nor krillin? No one commented on it.
- Goku calls frost really strong. If, by your numbers , he is close to cell, why wouldn't he call him trash like dabura?
- Seeing RoF piccolo at 2.5 Bil, where would you put FP cell? around 4 Billion ? there is no way that goku will flat out tell piccolo that he has no chance against that level of enemy.
- Base gotenks is heavliy implied to be stronger than piccolo, even pre rosat. Post rosat is pretty clear. Also, base gotenks is HEAVILY implied to be above SS kids. However, I guess you try to use mulipliers & not put much into it. So, it is OK but multipliers don't justify everything.
- Gohan (base) is heavily implied to be around piccolo or above. No way can he be only at 100 million. Again
Herms' strength checker wrote:Chapter 343 (DBZ 149), P8.2-4
No.19: “Seems you’ve been watching things all along, but you missed hearing the most important thing. Vegeta, we already know all about your battle techniques.”
Vegeta: “Even so, you looked pretty surprised when Kakarot became a Super Saiyan…In other words, your data from the battle with Freeza up to the present is estimated…We Saiyans can’t be understood just by calculations…” - I find it hard to believe fat buu being that close to final form freeza. Imagine, all it takes to defeat post training freeza, tagoma , ginyu etc is to wake up fat buu?

- DanielSSJ
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
I believe the idea of two separate base powers stem from how Goku has two separate Super Saiyan forms. One with God Ki and one without.apex_pretador wrote:I don'tknow where the idea of two bases coming from, but here are the issues:
Considering base Gotenks doesn't actually do anything worth talking about, people can interpret his strength anyway they want to. If you want base Gotenks to be above Piccolo, that's fine, but you can really contradict othet people with differing opinions because there's hardly any evidence.Base gotenks is heavliy implied to be stronger than piccolo, even pre rosat. Post rosat is pretty clear. Also, base gotenks is HEAVILY implied to be above SS kids. However, I guess you try to use mulipliers & not put much into it. So, it is OK but multipliers don't justify everything.
Gohan (base) is heavily implied to be around piccolo or above. No way can he be only at 100 million.
That can easily be explained by Toei's B.S. making Gohan's base form seem more powerful than it actually is. Though I usually put Super Saiyan Gohan somewhere between SS2 and Fat Boo levels.
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Goku don't have God ki in his SSj form or Base.Only the Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue have God Ki.DanielSSJ wrote:I believe the idea of two separate base powers stem from how Goku has two separate Super Saiyan forms. One with God Ki and one without.apex_pretador wrote:I don'tknow where the idea of two bases coming from, but here are the issues:
Re: Uni 6 and Uni 7 power chains
Universe 7 Team
Piccolo ---> Goku = Vegeta ---> Monaka
Universe 6 Team
Botamo ---> Frost ---> Magetta ---> Cabba ---> Hit
Overall
Botamo ---> 1st Form Frost ---> Piccolo (Possibly higher) ---> Assault Form Frost = Base Goku = Base Vegeta ---> Final Form Frost ---> SSj Goku = SSj Vegeta ---> Magetta ---> SSj Blue Goku = SSj Blue Vegeta = Cabba ---> Hit = Monaka
Piccolo ---> Goku = Vegeta ---> Monaka
Universe 6 Team
Botamo ---> Frost ---> Magetta ---> Cabba ---> Hit
Overall
Botamo ---> 1st Form Frost ---> Piccolo (Possibly higher) ---> Assault Form Frost = Base Goku = Base Vegeta ---> Final Form Frost ---> SSj Goku = SSj Vegeta ---> Magetta ---> SSj Blue Goku = SSj Blue Vegeta = Cabba ---> Hit = Monaka
- DanielSSJ
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
I was referring to Super Saiyan Blue when I mentioned the Super Saiyan form with God Ki. Besides, I was just saying where the idea of two base powers started, not that I subscribe to the idea.SSJ3 Vegeta wrote:Goku don't have God ki in his SSj form or Base.Only the Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue have God Ki.DanielSSJ wrote:I believe the idea of two separate base powers stem from how Goku has two separate Super Saiyan forms. One with God Ki and one without.apex_pretador wrote:I don'tknow where the idea of two bases coming from, but here are the issues:
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Oops.It looks like i misunderstood that one as Goku having two types of God power,one with God power turn off and one with on.DanielSSJ wrote:I was referring to Super Saiyan Blue when I mentioned the Super Saiyan form with God Ki. Besides, I was just saying where the idea of two base powers started, not that I subscribe to the idea.
- apex_pretador
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
DanielSSJ wrote:Considering base Gotenks doesn't actually do anything worth talking about, people can interpret his strength anyway they want to. If you want base Gotenks to be above Piccolo, that's fine, but you can really contradict othet people with differing opinions because there's hardly any evidence.Base gotenks is heavliy implied to be stronger than piccolo, even pre rosat. Post rosat is pretty clear. Also, base gotenks is HEAVILY implied to be above SS kids. However, I guess you try to use mulipliers & not put much into it. So, it is OK but multipliers don't justify everything.
- SS trunks & goten know they don't stand a chance against fat buu, but base gotenks thinks he can win. This implies that base gotenks > SS trunks atleast.
- Krillin thinks that he "may just pull it off"
- Piccolo seems to be unable to catch gotenks going off to fight buu
- Everyone calls base gotenks incredible
- In the RoSaT, base gotenks is shocked that his attacks aren't damaging buu, and said he powered up greatly (which piccolo agreed). If he is weaker than SS kids, why will he be shocked?
- Piccolo didn't even know that gotenks can transform, and still thought that they were his last hope. If he was 10x than base gotenks, why will he put his hopes in him?
- Again, I'm not a fan of guidebooks , but they seemingly do mention him surpassing majin vegeta in rosat. SS gotenks (pre) can't be weaker than Majin vegeta, so base gotenks (pre) is, and post rosat gotenks surpassed him. But again, only if you go by guides.
- DanielSSJ
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Most, if not all, of those points can be interpreted in different ways.apex_pretador wrote:DanielSSJ wrote:Considering base Gotenks doesn't actually do anything worth talking about, people can interpret his strength anyway they want to. If you want base Gotenks to be above Piccolo, that's fine, but you can really contradict othet people with differing opinions because there's hardly any evidence.Base gotenks is heavliy implied to be stronger than piccolo, even pre rosat. Post rosat is pretty clear. Also, base gotenks is HEAVILY implied to be above SS kids. However, I guess you try to use mulipliers & not put much into it. So, it is OK but multipliers don't justify everything.
I see, 7 points to put him above SS trunks, (6 if we not count guides) , implications that he is stronger than even piccolo.
- SS trunks & goten know they don't stand a chance against fat buu, but base gotenks thinks he can win. This implies that base gotenks > SS trunks atleast.
- Krillin thinks that he "may just pull it off"
- Piccolo seems to be unable to catch gotenks going off to fight buu
- Everyone calls base gotenks incredible
- In the RoSaT, base gotenks is shocked that his attacks aren't damaging buu, and said he powered up greatly (which piccolo agreed). If he is weaker than SS kids, why will he be shocked?
- Piccolo didn't even know that gotenks can transform, and still thought that they were his last hope. If he was 10x than base gotenks, why will he put his hopes in him?
- Again, I'm not a fan of guidebooks , but they seemingly do mention him surpassing majin vegeta in rosat. SS gotenks (pre) can't be weaker than Majin vegeta, so base gotenks (pre) is, and post rosat gotenks surpassed him. But again, only if you go by guides.
- Gotenks is arrogent to a ridiculous degree. I take any claims from with a grain of walt. Especially considering he ended up getting spanked by Boo anyways.
- Back in the Freeza arc, Piccolo and Kaio all thought that Goku had a chance against Freeza. They were wrong.
- Not sure what I can say about this one.
- Even if they call him incredible, they never actually give concrete statements about his power. So he could be incredible in the sense of how much stronger he his comparec to the kids' base forms.
- Again, Gotenks is a cocky child.
- Piccolo might've been assuming Gotenks wasn't at full power. To quote Vegeta from the Saiyan Arc
Plus, Piccolo could just be overly optimistic.It may be. These fools seem able to vary their power. Mraning... 5,000 could just be for starters...
- I think the simplest explanation for the guidebook line is that Super Saiyan Gotenks was weaker than Vegeta untill after his session in the Room.
- apex_pretador
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Well you did interpret them in a different way as you said
It is like saying that goku SS is weaker than cell, but he thinks his base form + KK x20 can finish the job. Yes, gotenks is arrogant, but not THAT much. He didn't brag out of nowhere, his SS3 seemed to finish buu off. He even destroyed him in regular SS form.(although buu wasn't fully serious)
but, if SS trunks at 55 & goten at 50 have ZERO chance against majin vegeta, (and they know that) , and majin vegeta was stomped by buu, then it is hard to believe that base gotenks is like a 15 or 20 and is willing to fight buu and thinks he can win.people can interpret his strength anyway they want to
It is like saying that goku SS is weaker than cell, but he thinks his base form + KK x20 can finish the job. Yes, gotenks is arrogant, but not THAT much. He didn't brag out of nowhere, his SS3 seemed to finish buu off. He even destroyed him in regular SS form.(although buu wasn't fully serious)
- ThePiccolo
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
I've decided to redo bits of my power level list. Feedback is welcome.
Multipliers
Oozaru - 10x base
SSJ - 50x Base
SSJ Grade 2 - 60x Base
SSJ Grade 3 - 90x Base
SSJ2 - 100x Base
SSJ3 - 400x Base
Fusions
Dance - 18.75x A (15xA for Post RoSaT Gotenks)
Potara - A+B x 200
Saiyan Saga
Namek Saga
Frieza Saga
Trunks Saga
Android Saga
Cell Saga
Cell Games
The Future
OtherWorld
Majin Buu Saga
Fusion Saga
Multipliers
Oozaru - 10x base
SSJ - 50x Base
SSJ Grade 2 - 60x Base
SSJ Grade 3 - 90x Base
SSJ2 - 100x Base
SSJ3 - 400x Base
Fusions
Dance - 18.75x A (15xA for Post RoSaT Gotenks)
Potara - A+B x 200
Saiyan Saga
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Last edited by ThePiccolo on Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
- apex_pretador
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
ThePiccolo wrote:I've decided to redo bits of my power level list. Feedback is welcome.
Saiyan SagaNamek SagaSpoiler:Frieza SagaSpoiler:Trunks SagaSpoiler:Android SagaSpoiler:Cell SagaSpoiler:Cell GamesSpoiler:The FutureSpoiler:OtherWorldSpoiler:Majin Buu SagaSpoiler:Fusion SagaSpoiler:Spoiler:
kid buu THAT much weaker than goku?
Kid buu was playing around the entire time against a serious goku who was going all out from the start, and goku could do nothing but barely fight back on par with him.
Also, kid buu >> Evil buu (skinny) as implied by vegeta.
Skinny buu can't be above suppressed SS3 goku, who was felt at kaioshin planet. If he was, everyone at kaioshin planet would've noticed.
Also , fat buu never powered-up after fighting majin vegeta before his split. So, buu against majin vegeta = against goku.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Keep in mind, Kid Buu was able to sense just regular SSJ Goku and Vegeta while they where in the Kaioshin realm.apex_pretador wrote:
Skinny buu can't be above suppressed SS3 goku, who was felt at kaioshin planet. If he was, everyone at kaioshin planet would've noticed.
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Also keep in mind that there's an inherent difference between being "able" to sense someone from that far, and a ki difference being so large that it actually grabs your attention. I'm pretty sure the only times the latter happened were Goku going Super Saiyan 3 and Evil Boo first forming.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Very good point Kaboom. But was not Gotenks SSJ sensed from the Kaioshin realm too?
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Nope, Gotenks isn't sensed in the Kaioshin realm until he and Piccolo escape when he's SSJ3.ahill1 wrote:Very good point Kaboom. But was not Gotenks SSJ sensed from the Kaioshin realm too?
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
What about this?ekrolo2 wrote:Nope, Gotenks isn't sensed in the Kaioshin realm until he and Piccolo escape when he's SSJ3.ahill1 wrote:Very good point Kaboom. But was not Gotenks SSJ sensed from the Kaioshin realm too?
Son Goku: Say... have you noticed... that Boo's chi is gone?
Kaioshin: ...Oh... you're right...!!
Kibito: Does that mean...?!
Son Goku: ...I don't know... I don't feel the kids fused chi either... but they haven't fought yet... why would their chi disappear...?
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Goku's assuming the boys would fuse after sensing Boo's rise in power and that'd he'd be able to pick up on their strength at least somewhat but they're both gone. It's very telling that them turning SSJ initially isn't sensed nearly as far as Super Boo or Goku powering up.ahill1 wrote:What about this?ekrolo2 wrote:Nope, Gotenks isn't sensed in the Kaioshin realm until he and Piccolo escape when he's SSJ3.ahill1 wrote:Very good point Kaboom. But was not Gotenks SSJ sensed from the Kaioshin realm too?
Son Goku: Say... have you noticed... that Boo's chi is gone?
Kaioshin: ...Oh... you're right...!!
Kibito: Does that mean...?!
Son Goku: ...I don't know... I don't feel the kids fused chi either... but they haven't fought yet... why would their chi disappear...?
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
I believe Herms claimed that Gotenks being sensed from the Kaioshin realm was ambiguous, not that Gotenks was never sensed. Not sure where to find it at the moment, but I recall reading that somewhere before.ekrolo2 wrote:Nope, Gotenks isn't sensed in the Kaioshin realm until he and Piccolo escape when he's SSJ3.ahill1 wrote:Very good point Kaboom. But was not Gotenks SSJ sensed from the Kaioshin realm too?





