U6 Tournament, Predictions on who will fight who.

[Sodhi]

For the predictions who will fight who the summaries pretty much gave it away. Vegeta is going to fight Frost, Magetta, and then finally lose to cabba. Then Monaka vs cabba and then monaka vs hit.However after that I Predict that something will happen and Goku would have to come into play. The only problem I can see happening in this tournament is Universe 7 losing and or universe 6 losing and something happen to Super dragon balls.

[Blade]

Even from an out-of-universe standpoint, there's hasn't been any conclusive evidence that irrefutably points to such theories holding any validity. I doubt much thought was put into such minute details. The series has always revolved around a rather simple but practical concept; fighter a was strong enough to defeat fighter b or less frequently, fighter a utilized a tactical methodology to trump fighter b.

I don't know what you're talking about. During Goku's half-episode fight with Frost alone, it's established twice that Frost is holding back, and once that Goku is too. Transformations are utilised as visual affirmations of character strength growth in the Shonen genre; just as we know that the gold hair of a Super Saiyan denotes a higher power than the black hair of a base-form, why is it surprising that the blue hair of a 'Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan' denotes a higher power still?

It's not really convoluted at all, it's the usual 'This is my true strength!' or the 'Now I'm fighting for real!' trope that Dragonball has been packed with since the very start.

You're missing the point; that analogy in my previous post was to highlight the unlikelihood of Goku having two base forms. Going out of your way to subscribe to a speculation that has yet to be confirmed is convoluted.

And stop putting words in my mouth; I never said that SSGSS doesn't yield a greater caliber of power than its incarnations. As a matter of fact, I adhere to the following:

Base Goku = SBG - I see the max potential of this form alone either rivaling his SSG incarnation from BoG or standing a notch or two below it.
SSJ (Gold) - Probably on par with SSG (BoG) at the very least.
SSGSS - Full power unleashed; notably stronger than any of his previous transformations, including SSG (BoG).

I dunno, I'd argue that it's you who is missing the point.

Given what we know about Dragonball's formula for hiding strength/holding back, I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that there's a reason why we haven't seen the blue haired form of Super Saiyan in this arc yet - and power conservation for plot convenience is probably a large factor in that (alongside Bandai product placing the old Super Saiyan form in the new outfits for merchandising, but that's just me being cynical).

I'm not assuming that Goku 'has two base forms', but rather that through mastery in training with Vegeta, he has come to completely (or at least largely) encapsulate his godly power purely into his blue-haired form. I don't think that's a leap of speculation which is any less out of place or substantial than the belief that the massive increase in Godly power has stacked ontop of his every form - that would make implicit that everyone in the tournament, Piccolo included, could give Beerus a run for his money.

When Goku fought Beerus fresh from being a Super Saiyan God, how he tapped into the Godly power may merely have been different and more crude than after his training with Whis, which on the face of it, was largely about ki conservation and efficiency, and resulted in the blue haired Super Saiyan form.

The Super Saiyan Blue comparison was just an analogy on my part; I didn't put any words in your mouth.

[supercat]

I don't know what you're talking about. During Goku's half-episode fight with Frost alone, it's established twice that Frost is holding back, and once that Goku is too. Transformations are utilised as visual affirmations of character strength growth in the Shonen genre; just as we know that the gold hair of a Super Saiyan denotes a higher power than the black hair of a base-form, why is it surprising that the blue hair of a 'Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan' denotes a higher power still?

It's not really convoluted at all, it's the usual 'This is my true strength!' or the 'Now I'm fighting for real!' trope that Dragonball has been packed with since the very start.

You're missing the point; that analogy in my previous post was to highlight the unlikelihood of Goku having two base forms. Going out of your way to subscribe to a speculation that has yet to be confirmed is convoluted.

And stop putting words in my mouth; I never said that SSGSS doesn't yield a greater caliber of power than its incarnations. As a matter of fact, I adhere to the following:

Base Goku = SBG - I see the max potential of this form alone either rivaling his SSG incarnation from BoG or standing a notch or two below it.
SSJ (Gold) - Probably on par with SSG (BoG) at the very least.
SSGSS - Full power unleashed; notably stronger than any of his previous transformations, including SSG (BoG).

I dunno, I'd argue that it's you who is missing the point.

Given what we know about Dragonball's formula for hiding strength/holding back, I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that there's a reason why we haven't seen the blue haired form of Super Saiyan in this arc yet - and power conservation for plot convenience is probably a large factor in that (alongside Bandai product placing the old Super Saiyan form in the new outfits for merchandising, but that's just me being cynical).

I'm not assuming that Goku 'has two base forms', but rather that through mastery in training with Vegeta, he has come to completely (or at least largely) encapsulate his godly power purely into his blue-haired form. I don't think that's a leap of speculation which is any less out of place or substantial than the belief that the massive increase in Godly power has stacked ontop of his every form - that would make implicit that everyone in the tournament, Piccolo included, could give Beerus a run for his money.

When Goku fought Beerus fresh from being a Super Saiyan God, how he tapped into the Godly power may merely have been different and more crude than after his training with Whis, which on the face of it, was largely about ki conservation and efficiency, and resulted in the blue haired Super Saiyan form.

The Super Saiyan Blue comparison was just an analogy on my part; I didn't put any words in your mouth.

We're going in circles here; again, did I say that SSB wasn't his max? I thought my previous post was as straightforward as it could be when I explicitly stated that I firmly believe the following: SSB > all other forms.

Beerus remarked about Goku retaining his SSG powers in base form; that's enough for me to believe that the latter in his base form has at least some accessibility to the power he wielded as an SSG.

So correct me if I'm wrong, but if SSB is the outward manifestation of a Saiyan who's fully refined the abilities of an SSG and is now the only way to leverage his SSG ki, his current base form must be inferior to the one that fought Beerus right?

I do believe SSB yields better ki control; but I'm pretty sure that's not the only by-product of his transformation. I see SSB as a mastered state of SSG that not only grants him a more desirable level of stability, but also boosts his strength a few tiers higher than that of his SSG incarnation.

There's simply not enough evidence for me to subscribe to this whole turning ki on and off theory. Why should I, or anyone for that matter, go above and beyond to breathe life into a speculation that has not yet been confirmed? Especially when we already have something that contradicts it?

[Blade]

We're going in circles here; again, did I say that SSB wasn't his max?

I never said you didn't, I was using the fact that it would logically seem to be his maximum state of power as a support of my argument that, regardless of how you spin it, it looks like Goku and Vegeta are holding back significantly. The implication being that if they are deliberately holding back a power that would probably provide them with easy wins against lesser opponents, is it therefore then really so difficult to subscribe to the view that their 'non' Godly and base forms adhere to previously established (at least Pre-Battle of Gods) in-universe power scalings?

I mean, if the blue haired form is 'Super Saiyan, infused with the power of Super Saiyan God', then it would seem implicit that regular Super Saiyan isn't carrying that Godly connotation. I mean, otherwise, that description itself is non-revealing. I mean sure, we've already seen in Goku's fight with Beerus that he was able to make the Godly power his own in a regular Super Saiyan form, but that was before he trained with Whis, in a regime that notably focused on suppressing and containing ki.

Super Saiyan God itself was a temporary state, so why is it so absurd to speculate that the immediate after-effects of the form weren't temporary too? It's also worth pointing out that Goku was able to transform into a Super Saiyan God momentarily at the climax of that particular fight, suggesting that even whilst he was fighting as a regular Super Saiyan, there were some lingering effects in-place.

So correct me if I'm wrong, but if SSB is the outward manifestation of a Saiyan who's fully refined the abilities of an SSG and is now the only way to leverage his SSG ki, his current base form must be inferior to the one that fought Beerus right?

As we've seen time and time again in Dragonball, that wouldn't be a ground-shaking alteration; just ask any sympathetic fan of Gohan's 'ultimate form'.

I do believe SSB yields better ki control; but I'm pretty sure that's not the only by-product of his transformation. I see SSB as a mastered state of SSG that not only grants him a more desirable level of stability, but also boosts his strength a few tiers higher than that of his SSG incarnation.

Okay, and that's your theory, which itself is based on a number of assumptions that I'm not fully convinced about. I see the blue haired form as merely being a conduit for Godly power, and probably the closest thing to a Super Saiyan God that Goku and Vegeta are capable of. I'd argue that it's at least of a comparable strength, as there's not much evidence to suggest, at this point in time at least, that it offers any real increase on that.

There's simply not enough evidence for me to subscribe to this whole turning ki on and off theory. Why should I, or anyone for that matter, go above and beyond to breathe life into a speculation that has not yet been confirmed? Especially when we already have something that contradicts it?

You really shouldn't get so het-up about this, I'm not forcing anyone to go out of their way to do anything. Whilst you don't have to agree with my deductions, I don't really think you can argue with the evidence that I've used to concoct them. The nature of any hypothesis is that until rigorously proven against all doubt, it remains just that - a theory, speculation. What you're offering in opposition is itself open to scrutiny based on inconsistencies, which frankly, are easy to find in practically any strength-related debate in the franchise. When you go beyond regular expression of A > B on a fight-by-fight basis, Dragonball seldom lends itself to a bullet-proof world view.

[MajinVegetaPD]

For the predictions who will fight who the summaries pretty much gave it away. Vegeta is going to fight Frost, Magetta, and then finally lose to cabba. Then Monaka vs cabba and then monaka vs hit.However after that I Predict that something will happen and Goku would have to come into play. The only problem I can see happening in this tournament is Universe 7 losing and or universe 6 losing and something happen to Super dragon balls.

Spoiler:

I don't see any summary where it looks like Vegeta would lose. Episode 35 and 36 clearly show Vegeta winning, episode 37 has an unknown/undecided title and summary, and episode 38 Hit appears. I don't see Vegeta losing in episode 37, and then Monaka coming in and winning all in the same episode..... It would make more sense by the number of episodes that Vegeta wins until he faces Hit, and then Hit and Monaka battling each other in episode 39.

[Khin]

I'm a Vegeta fan.But him winning 3 fights in a row would be very ridiculous.I'd wish him to hit a brick wall at Cabba.

[MajinVegetaPD]

I'm a Vegeta fan.But him winning 3 fights in a row would be very ridiculous.I'd wish him to hit a brick wall at Cabba.

I honestly can't see that happening. I don't think Vegeta is inclined to hold back in a fight the same way Goku likes to. If Vegeta is in trouble there is nothing in his personality that would make me think he won't transform into SSB to win the fight. I don't see anyone other then Hit beating him. Cabba and Frost fought side by side, so he needs to be in that tier of strength somewhere. We also know that he can't transform either.

[Khin]

I honestly can't see that happening. I don't think Vegeta is inclined to hold back in a fight the same way Goku likes to. If Vegeta is in trouble there is nothing in his personality that would make me think he won't transform into SSB to win the fight. I don't see anyone other then Hit beating him. Cabba and Frost fought side by side, so he needs to be in that tier of strength somewhere. We also know that he can't transform either.

Cabba is stated to be able to fight on par with Vegeta.So Cabba is definitely not in the same tier as Frost who got wrecked by SSj Goku.

[Hugo Boss]

I see the blue haired form as merely being a conduit for Godly power, and probably the closest thing to a Super Saiyan God that Goku and Vegeta are capable of. I'd argue that it's at least of a comparable strength, as there's not much evidence to suggest, at this point in time at least, that it offers any real increase on that.

I sympathize with most of your points. In this case, I think there is a wall which Goku and Vegeta broke once they acquired the blue haired Super Saiyan. Thus, when they continue to build up strength by training there will be a point they will manage to exceed Super Saiyan God itself. None of the characters commented on it yet, but in the beginning of Ep. 23 the narrator said SSGSS Goku surpassed Super Saiyan God or something like that, so perhaps that could count to some people.

[MajinVegetaPD]

I honestly can't see that happening. I don't think Vegeta is inclined to hold back in a fight the same way Goku likes to. If Vegeta is in trouble there is nothing in his personality that would make me think he won't transform into SSB to win the fight. I don't see anyone other then Hit beating him. Cabba and Frost fought side by side, so he needs to be in that tier of strength somewhere. We also know that he can't transform either.

Cabba is stated to be able to fight on par with Vegeta.So Cabba is definitely not in the same tier as Frost who got wrecked by SSj Goku.

I understood the spoiler mentioning that base Cabba is on the same level as base Vegeta/Goku, which would put him around the level of Assault Form Frost.

[Khin]

[I understood the spoiler mentioning that base Cabba is on the same level as base Vegeta/Goku, which would put him around the level of Assault Form Frost.

When was it stated that Base Vegeta was the one who fights on par with Cabba ? Vegeta turns SSj against Magetta then Magetta forces him to turn into ''Super'' Super Saiyan (Which is probably the blue form).I see no reason why Vegeta would revert back to base.

[Khin]

As i predicted.Goku will fight again.So now it's gonna be

Goku vs. Botamo
Goku vs. Frost
Piccolo vs. Frost
Vegeta vs. Frost
Vegeta vs. Magetta
Vegeta vs. Cabba
Goku vs. Cabba
Goku vs. Hit
Monaka vs. Hit

So basically,Goku will have more fights that Vegeta.

[Bullza]

It really wouldn't surprise me if despite what was said Goku does end up fighting after Monaka.

SSJB Goku vs Hit. Surely that's gotta be the final battle right? They wouldn't let the be all and end all fight not involve the main character would they?

They'd put him back in there only to have him lose again possibly after one victory? I doubt it.

[buutenks]

Seems vegeta isnt going to use ssj blue vs magetta. Looks more like ascendent ssj.

As for cabe, i dont see him being able to go toe to toe with a ssj blue, that would mean he actually be very close in power to champa.

I think cabe is at the level of ssj goku and vegeta. And once vegeta goes all out(aka ssj blue) he will basically one hit cabe. And then hit will somehow defeat vegeta.

hit is most likely at that level, especially since frost called him the legendary hitman.

So, my prediction:
Vegeta vs Magetta: Vegeta
Vegeta vs Cabe;vegeta
Vegeta vs Hit: Hit
Goku vs Hit:(twist) goku forfeits just so he can see monaka's power
Monaka vs Hit;it is revealed that monaka isnt that strong actually so he simply gets scared and runs off or feints lol.

So beerus loses and boom the z fighters go explore u6 with beerus going to u7 earth(now in u6) for the food. And ofcourse beerus and champa fighting allot since both of them will be there.

I also imagine beerus chasing goku around the arena for giving up.(similar to how he did with vegeta and goku back on his planet when they ate the pizza).

Edit:I also dont see how cabe can beat ssj blue vegeta and lose to goku.Unless cabe is very tired. Tho i figure goku will not like having such a hollow victory.

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

Bit late, I realize, but my predictions from this point forward would have been Vegeta beating Frost, Magnetta, and having a draw with Cabba, before Monaka vs Hit (not sure who'd win that, but it looks like Hit, based on the little we've seen). But that was BEFORE Goku was reinstated, so that obviously makes things difficult (mainly because I wanted Vegeta to steal the show by knocking out 3 of U6's fighters).

So far:
Goku vs Botamo - Goku
Goku vs Frost - Frost
Piccolo vs Frost - Frost initially, then Piccolo
Vegeta vs Frost - Vegeta, after Piccolo forfeits
My prediction:
Vegeta vs Magnetta - Vegeta
Vegeta vs Cabba - draw
Goku vs Hit - unsure, because we have to see Monaka fight too, right? But that would mean Goku loses AGAIN...

In another scenario, probably Goku beats Cabba after Vegeta... *gulps* loses to him, then faces Hit. But then I have no idea how we'll see Monaka fight, because I doubt Goku would lose again (unless it was on purpose).

[dbzfan7]

Well now my prediction is

-Vegeta will beat Cabba
-Hit will beat Vegeta.
-Hit will beat Goku.
-Monaka will beat Hit.