I was officially done with the Super anime after one scene.

[Wezenheim]

https://twitter.com/Chris24_Sabat/statu ... 2443683840

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

The bigger problems are the animation/ vegeta being a MAID!

Goku acting childish and not reserved...yeah that's actually 100% fine. Goku as a adult isn't really different then when he was a kid. Only teen goku is shown to be any different because he was confident and calm for the most part but it wasn't much time with him so it might have been confidence to help him on his mission.

[Chuquita]

If they do lose the tournament, they probably won't be studying under Whis anymore (since they'll live in a different universe), so they won't be his butler/maid anymore either.

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

If they do lose the tournament, they probably won't be studying under Whis anymore (since they'll live in a different universe), so they won't be his butler/maid anymore either.

Thank god for that. Vados may be a better teacher. It'll be like "here's food. Now let us train" and he'll agree. I may end up liking Champa more. As of right now I can't find an opinion on him yet. They just have him be pooped on a lot.

[VejituhTheWarriorGuy]

Super in general has been extremely disappointing mainly because it's supposed to cover a part of a story that already has an ending so even if we end up seeing people die left and right in Super, it won't matter because they're all alive at the end of Z. BoG and RF were fine because they were just two little stories within that time period that didnt affect anything but showed things we haven't seen from the series yet but Super is now building up all of this stuff that won't matter in the very end. The Universal Tournament arc has been enjoyable so far but I can't get as into it as everyone else does because it's going to build up all this stuff that we already know won't have the slightest inch of impact because the series is already over. Unless they decide to go beyond EOZ but I truly doubt it.

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

Super in general has been extremely disappointing mainly because it's supposed to cover a part of a story that already has an ending so even if we end up seeing people die left and right in Super, it won't matter because they're all alive at the end of Z. BoG and RF were fine because they were just two little stories within that time period that didnt affect anything but showed things we haven't seen from the series yet but Super is now building up all of this stuff that won't matter in the very end. The Universal Tournament arc has been enjoyable so far but I can't get as into it as everyone else does because it's going to build up all this stuff that we already know won't have the slightest inch of impact because the series is already over. Unless they decide to go beyond EOZ but I truly doubt it.

Agreed. It's like seeing a movie and someone says "Everyone survives and is friends 10 years" right before it. Takes away surprise and lowers the stakes.

[Ajay]

I disagree with that premise entirely. The concept of prequels wouldn't exist if that were a factor that actually mattered. You can create enjoyable tension through solid writing alone.

[VegettoEX]

I disagree with that premise entirely. The concept of prequels wouldn't exist if that were a factor that actually mattered. You can create enjoyable tension through solid writing alone.

Agreed. It just has to be done well. For Dragon Ball in particular, I think the classic example we all still point to is the Bardock TV special. There's only one way for that story to end: but that's OK, because it's not about the ending, it's about everything in between.

Another favorite example for me is Crisis Core. Again, there's only one way that story can end... and even when you get to it, and even when you know how it has to play out, somehow they make it even more gut-wrenching then you could have imagined (though gameplay mechanics were worked into that emotion, something a TV series doesn't have, but eh).

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

I disagree with that premise entirely. The concept of prequels wouldn't exist if that were a factor that actually mattered. You can create enjoyable tension through solid writing alone.

That is true if you have a rich backstory and such like the star wars prequels, but with the prequels of star wars you didn't know if any Jedi survive, or what happens to others who's fates weren't clear. You don't really have that with super. And dragonball's concept of death is ALREADY a joke, but knowing what happens later on AND having MORE dragonballs makes things silly.

I think that it'd be BETTER if super went past the end of Z because we want to see what happens NEXT. Not in between. Yeah they can make things s good in between but more people care for what happens next in the story they're invested in, not what happens before the newest thing if it's a series.

[Doctor.]

Agreed. It's like seeing a movie and someone says "Everyone survives and is friends 10 years" right before it. Takes away surprise and lowers the stakes.

That's not exactly true. Sure, everyone we saw in the epilogue survives, assuming they're keeping the epilogue intact, but what about Beerus and Whis? Maybe they die. Or Jaco. Or Monaka. Or Cabba. Or any new character introduced in Super.

[VejituhTheWarriorGuy]

I disagree with that premise entirely. The concept of prequels wouldn't exist if that were a factor that actually mattered. You can create enjoyable tension through solid writing alone.

Agreed. It just has to be done well. For Dragon Ball in particular, I think the classic example we all still point to is the Bardock TV special. There's only one way for that story to end: but that's OK, because it's not about the ending, it's about everything in between.

Another favorite example for me is Crisis Core. Again, there's only one way that story can end... and even when you get to it, and even when you know how it has to play out, somehow they make it even more gut-wrenching then you could have imagined (though gameplay mechanics were worked into that emotion, something a TV series doesn't have, but eh).

I mean you're right and I'm enjoying the current arc because I still like Dragon Ball, but I wish it wasn't so restricted because we know how it'll end. I just can't get into Super the way I can with One Piece. I can get into it but not so into it where I'm like "OH MAN WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN NEXT?!" in the week between each episode and chapter like OP.

[ekrolo2]

A great deal of stories function in the tried and true form of "good guy vs bad guy, good guy inevitably wins" and everyone knows this. So, why does stuff like Avatar TLA work regardless of this? Because the characters are made interesting and given good challenges to their ultimate objective. So this whole thing of "you know how it's gonna end so what's the point?" isn't a valid criticism when a LOT of fiction, regardless of its place in its own continuities timeline functions with this in mind.

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

Agreed. It's like seeing a movie and someone says "Everyone survives and is friends 10 years" right before it. Takes away surprise and lowers the stakes.

That's not exactly true. Sure, everyone we saw in the epilogue survives, assuming they're keeping the epilogue intact, but what about Beerus and Whis? Maybe they die. Or Jaco. Or Monaka. Or Cabba. Or any new character introduced in Super.

Good point, but we don't have any attachment to them. beerus is somebody I ROUTE to die,as do others. Jaco is just there, Whis is okay and probably will always be. I care more for SNOW then any of these people. She was even better animated and written then them. Kabe has potential though honestly. Same with frost. They seam to have at least some charm. They can be great. But the point stays-post EOZ needs to happen. It may not, but it would be great. And if it's erased then they need to tell us.

[Shi_Neko13]

There can still be tension and intrigue and investment in DBS. Knowing that EOZ turns out the way it does only makes me more interested in seeing what happens.
Unless you grew up in Japan or got some import VHS's chances are you watched DBZ in 1996 or later, which was after the series Ended in Japan. And if you scoured the Internet on your 56k modem like I did you found crappy Jpgs of Cell or Buu or you played super butoden on SNES ROMS and saw all these blonde characters. I knew goku was in the buu saga before I even saw it, and I stil enjoyed every episode because it doesn't matter that they're all there at the end, it's the fighting and dialogue and crazy crap that happened in between that was interesting.
In DBS we get new characters new forms, new stories. A whole new universe to explore and a 10 year gap in which to do it, there is so much room for interesting stories to take place and then we'll see how it all winds down to the boring lame ending DBZ had. Seriously, EOZ is boring crap that doesn't even need to exist in the first place. The series could've ended with Goku giving the thumbs up on Kami's lookout with everyone there and The End! But because toriyama made a few more chapters and then just pulled the plug on it they were forced to adapt that part too. I'm much happier with "buu is defeated and then God of destruction Beerus comes looking for super Saiyan God", awesome, EOZ wiped from my memory thank you!!!

[saiyanvegetable]

Agreed. It's like seeing a movie and someone says "Everyone survives and is friends 10 years" right before it. Takes away surprise and lowers the stakes.

That's not exactly true. Sure, everyone we saw in the epilogue survives, assuming they're keeping the epilogue intact, but what about Beerus and Whis? Maybe they die. Or Jaco. Or Monaka. Or Cabba. Or any new character introduced in Super.

The only problem with that is nobody is going to give a shit when that happens because most of those characters are paper thin in terms of development.

[coola]

I kinda understand, for me, last coffin for Kai 0.5 (Buu Saga) was hell filler, F movie just aired, and they still shown Freeza outside coccon, plus, we had Oni dialogue of them meeting Goku, it was never mentioned in Kai, it showed me, that Toei put no effort into series.

[sintzu]

I kinda understand, for me, last coffin for Kai 0.5 (Buu Saga) was hell filler, F movie just aired, and they still shown Freeza outside coccon, plus, we had Oni dialogue of them meeting Goku, it was never mentioned in Kai, it showed me, that Toei put no effort into series.

Kai was produced years before F so there was no way for them to know what Toriyama was going to do with Freeza.

In terms of the Oni meeting, There's a lot of stuff that happened off screen that we didn't see and only know about because they were brought up later down the line so I don't see why it's a problem here especially with how small it is.

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

I wonder which is worse, what Toei has given us so far in Dragon Ball Super or Naruto: Shippuden filler.

[Saiga]

I disagree with that premise entirely. The concept of prequels wouldn't exist if that were a factor that actually mattered. You can create enjoyable tension through solid writing alone.

While this is true, prequels generally serve a purpose of showing how things got to the point of the first installment. Super can't really do that because it's not showing how things got to the end of the manga, we've already seen that in the Boo arc. It's instead introducing something new, and the epilogue makes it look like nothing new introduced is going to matter for the end of the story. That feels like there is no tension.

Not about character deaths, but whether any of these new elements are going to matter for the end of the manga - or even anything other than the current "Beerus/God era" started in 2013.