Which Super Saiyan form did Gohan use against Dabra?

[Darkprince410]

I think the most important thing to really take into consideration is that Goku's statement regarding Dabra's strength vs. Cell is, given the way he explained it, solely based on his movements from when he took out Kibito. It wasn't based on ki that was being sensed or anything like that, but just where he was judging Dabra's strength from what few actions he had seen beforehand.

Vegeta: “Hmph…The way things are going, this ‘Majin Boo’ guy isn’t going to be anything special, is he? Just like that ‘Dabra’ jerk…[ ] I’m saying that this ‘Dabra’ guy doesn’t seem as bad as you two feared. Looking at his attacks and movement outside earlier, it seems that if we just watch out for his spit, then we should manage something. I can’t call Kibito anything but a bumbler for getting done-in like that…”

Kaioshin: “…Is-is that true, Son Goku?...”

Goku: “Yeah…Well, even if that wasn’t him at full force…I think that before he would have been a frightening opponent, but…7 years ago there was a guy called ‘Cell’…[Dabra]’s probably about as strong as him…”

Additionally, his comment on Dabra being "stronger" than what he thought wasn't in relation to normal strength ki levels, but in his use of magic, something that Goku and the others aren't really familiar with fighting against.

Goku: “Magic, huh? He’s way stronger than I thought, ain’t he?”

So, in the end, it ends up being a situation of maybe Goku's estimate was just too generous. He's only taking a stab in the dark basically based on actions and movements, and not solid ki detection, so Dabra's actions might have led Goku to believe he was stronger than he actually was, hence why Gohan ended up being able to do as well as he did against him as a regular Super Saiya-jin.

[Hugo Boss]

Vegeta commented on Gohan's lack of training when he came to the Capsule Corporation as well. He just didn't realize how much weaker Gohan had gotten until after he turned Super Saiyan 2.

I apologize for not being clear. Actually, I wanted to say that, while the book presents "not gaining power from anger" as an issue, Vegeta, and Goku later, only comment on "lack of training" as the cause. Anger was only referenced when Goku told Gohan to get angry when he faces Dabra again.

The entry for "High School Era Super Saiyan 2" Gohan points out how he used the form against Kibito, and simply says Volume 37 without the ikou/+. Which would indicate that he only used the form in that volume at the tournament, since his fight with Kibito was in Volume 38.

Don't you mean "his fight with Dabra was in Volume 38"?

[Kaboom]

Don't you mean "his fight with Dabra was in Volume 38"?

Yes. Whoopsie-daisy.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Saying that Gohan was definitely a regular Super Saiyan, or that Gohan was definitely a Super Saiyan 2 is stupid IMO. There are indications for both cases, and the whole situation is just a mess no matter how you look at it.

• Evidence that he is a Super Saiyan:
  • Gohan has his Super Saiyan aura.
  • Daizenshuu 2 implies he was a Super Saiyan.
  Explanation about why he is a Super Saiyan:
  Gohan needs to be angry in order to turn SS2, because of his lack of training. Gohan got angry & turned into a Super Saiyan when Videl was getting her ass kicked, so because his anger was still fresh against Kibito, he could turn SS2. Against Dabra, he didn't need SS2 to beat him, because Dabra was around as strong as Cell was, but in his Perfect form, not his Super Perfect form. He was trying to get angry & turn into a SS2 when Boo was about to be revived, but he couldn't do it. His hairstyle was different from before because one month has passed, and D7 made a mistake. The only point he is a SS2 is against Kibito.
• Evidence that he is a Super Saiyan 2:
  • Gohan has his Super Saiyan 2 hairstyle.
  • Daizenshuu 7 states he was a Super Saiyan 2.
  Explanation about why he is a Super Saiyan 2:
  Gohan can freely turn into a Super Saiyan 2. He transformed when he got angry because Videl was getting her ass kicked, against Kibito, against Dabra because he was as strong as Cell in his best form (Super Perfect), when trying to prevent Boo's revival because he wanted to use his maximum power, and even more than that through his anger, and when he pulled off the Z-Sword & did training with it. SS2 normally has a big aura with sparks, but Gohan's aura in this form is inconsistent because of he hadn't done any real training for 7 years, minus the last month. He only transformed into a Super Saiyan when he appeared in the city as the Golden Warrior, and during his training with Goten, while he was a Super Saiyan 2 from the point he got angry with Spopovitch up until his training with the Z-Sword, and D2 made a mistake.

Personally, I believe that Gohan was a Super Saiyan 2 in every occasion after the tournament, but I won't be an ass & force my opinion on others. Others may interpret things differently than I do.

[rereboy]

[*]Evidence that he is a Super Saiyan 2:

• Gohan has his Super Saiyan 2 hairstyle.

He had that style of hair in the tournament in SSj1 and SSj2. That's not really evidence.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

[*]Evidence that he is a Super Saiyan 2:

• Gohan has his Super Saiyan 2 hairstyle.

He had that style of hair in the tournament in SSj1 and SSj2. That's not really evidence.

That is assuming that he turned into a regular Super Saiyan during the tournament.

[Darkprince410]

That is assuming that he turned into a regular Super Saiyan during the tournament.

Well, he made a big deal about showing Kibito Ssj2, as if he hadn't shown it before. Likewise, Kibito, Spopovitch, and Yam all acted like it was their first time witnessing that power coming from him at all.

Additionally, when Gohan tried pulling the Z Sword out and transformed, Kibito specifically referred to what he transformed into as Super Saiya-jin, and it was still the same hair design he showed at the Budoukai.

[rereboy]

[*]Evidence that he is a Super Saiyan 2:

• Gohan has his Super Saiyan 2 hairstyle.

He had that style of hair in the tournament in SSj1 and SSj2. That's not really evidence.

That is assuming that he turned into a regular Super Saiyan during the tournament.

There is a clear distinction between him turning into SSj while watching Videl and then turning Ssj2 in front of Kibito. What is presented in the tournament itself is clear enough.

Of course, like I said in the first page, I believe that Gohan was fighting Dabra with a sort of SSj 1.5, meaning that he was reaching more power than regular SSj but wasn't able to fully turn ssj2 because he lacked rage. We could apply the same logic to the tournament to justify his hair style, but Gohan kept that hair even in the Kaioshin realm, where he is a SSj, so it wouldn't be very coherent, imo. I really don't think his style of hair is evidence towards anything.

[Kuririn Fan]

He was SS1.
No electricity = no SS2.
Simple.

[Grimlock]

He was SS1.
No electricity = no SS2.
Simple.

No, not simple. Because then you would have to say Vegeta fought Kid Buu as Super Saiyan, even though in the manga, Vegeta was clearly fighting as Super Saiyan 2.

Not to mention the movies, all of them Super Saiyan 2 has no electricity.

[Duo]

He was SS1.
No electricity = no SS2.
Simple.

No, not simple. Because then you would have to say Vegeta fought Kid Buu as Super Saiyan, even though in the manga, Vegeta was clearly fighting as Super Saiyan 2.

Not to mention the movies, all of them Super Saiyan 2 has no electricity.

We're all talking about the manga, right?

Vegeta had lightning in his aura when he fought Buu. Gohan did not have lightning in his aura when he fought Dabra. The anime can't be factored into this discussion because it doesn't maintain this consistency.

[Kuririn Fan]

He was SS1.
No electricity = no SS2.
Simple.

No, not simple. Because then you would have to say Vegeta fought Kid Buu as Super Saiyan, even though in the manga, Vegeta was clearly fighting as Super Saiyan 2.

Not to mention the movies, all of them Super Saiyan 2 has no electricity.

But SS1 lines up with Vegeta's impatience and telling that he isn't fighting at his best and Dabra is like Cell, sooo. And Gohan's SS2 at tournament before this fight and Goku's SS2 showing it to Boo both had electricity, so Toriyama forgetting it doesn't make sense.

[Lord Beerus]

He was SS1.
No electricity = no SS2.
Simple.

No, not simple. Because then you would have to say Vegeta fought Kid Buu as Super Saiyan, even though in the manga, Vegeta was clearly fighting as Super Saiyan 2.

Not to mention the movies, all of them Super Saiyan 2 has no electricity.

Well, then Toei is at fault for being lazy and not animating a lightning aura in those scenarios.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Additionally, when Gohan tried pulling the Z Sword out and transformed, Kibito specifically referred to what he transformed into as Super Saiya-jin, and it was still the same hair design he showed at the Budoukai.

Kaioshin and Kibito don't seem to refer to their forms as anything other than Super Saiyan, though. Kaioshin says he had trouble stopping Super Saiyan Gohan:

Kaioshin: “Un-unbelievable. Is this ‘Super Saiyan’ thing really this great?...Come to think of it, it was quite hard to stop Son Gohan from moving after he became a Super Saiyan…And even that might not have been his full power…”

Other than that, it seems odd that no one would call Gohan out on not fighting at his best.

[Kuririn Fan]

He was SS1.
No electricity = no SS2.
Simple.

No, not simple. Because then you would have to say Vegeta fought Kid Buu as Super Saiyan, even though in the manga, Vegeta was clearly fighting as Super Saiyan 2.

Not to mention the movies, all of them Super Saiyan 2 has no electricity.

Well, then Toei is at fault for being lazy and not animating a lightning aura in those scenarios.

Yeah, Vegeta has a lighting aura in the manga.

[Hugo Boss]

Other than that, it seems odd that no one would call Gohan out on not fighting at his best.

It might not be very clear, but Goku told Gohan to get angry. That may imply Goku knows Gohan has more power to show than he did against Dabra. It's either that Gohan has more power as a SS or that anger translates into SS2.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Well, we know Gohan's "enraged" state was the topic of discussion from the last few chapters there. Vegeta said Gohan was weaker than himself and Goku, but that could change if Gohan had one of his crazy moments. Goku later told Gohan to get angry and bring out "all of his power" like he did against Cell, with Gohan saying he is angry, but not like he was as a kid.

All he had to do was get angry like he did a few hrs ago. Maybe showing off was more of a priority than saving Piccolo and Krillin....

[Kaboom]

At most, I think that anger would just help Gohan as a shortcut into Super Saiyan 2 and possibly grant some more extra power on top of it. It's not really a requirement, since he wasn't exactly fuming anymore when he transformed for Kibito. Rather I'd wager that going Super Saiyan 2 is just all-around difficult for Gohan to do, since he never trained to freely control access the form, and so it takes him some extra time, effort, and focus to do. He had that luxury against Kibito, but probably not in later instances when time was short.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Dabra seemed to be pretty lenient when it came to battle. He sat back and gave the Saiyans the opportunity to attack him all at once. When they were about to fight again, Dabra didn't seem to mind watching him transform. My guess is it's been seven yrs since he last transformed into a Super Saiyan 2, so it took some effort when he decided to do it for Kibito. I don't think the process would always be that difficult. He instantly transformed back into a Super Saiyan 2 when Cell returned, though one could say he was still pissed about Goku's sacrifice being useless.

[miguelnuva1]

Gohan does not have his ssj2 hair against Dabura. There is a difference between his ssj2 hair and his later buu saga ssj1 hair.

Also with Goku agreeing he and Vegeta would beat Dabura and then both being shocked that the other had ssj2 implies to me that Dabura was around the Cell Goku fought. A ssj1 approaching Kid Gohan's power would then be able to handle Dabura.