Dragon Ball Animators Thread

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Dragon Ball Animators Thread

Post by gaberparadiso » Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:52 pm

Hi, I'm new here and since I've been a Dragonball fan for a lot of years, I'd like to resume the Animation discussion. In recent years, I've been pretty interested in the different animation styles from every key animator (I'm referring to the original series, not only to DBS). I also learnt to identify some key animators' styles, because I find this topic very interesting and I want to know who's behind some scenes.
-Of course, Studio Junio directs the best-looking episodes, especially in Dragon Ball: Sato Masaki's characters are pretty accurate-looking and have linear and angular shapes (the most notable scenes are the ones, in which Goku kicks Drum, Piccolo uses his Tsuikidan against Goku, Gohan pushes the Genkidama towards Vegeta and, of course, Goku's first SSJ transformation scene). Image Image
Ide Takeo's style is pretty interesting as well, his characters are shadier and tend to smirk a lot, especially every time they're upset, by grinding their teeth (for example, Goku's Kaio-ken against Ginyu until the former repels the latter's energy blasts, Goku and Piccolo fighting each other during their training for the androids, or the last part of USSJ Trunks and Cell's fight in episode 164, while in the movies, he drew the first part of Goku and Piccolo's fight in Movie 2, Gohan's transformation into a Oozaru in Movie 3, Android 13 and Broly's deaths, in movies 7 and 8, respectively. He also animated the first part of Vegeta's power up against final form Frieza in episode 84). Image Image
Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru's style is almost similar to Masaki's, only more angular-shaped, with much more three-quarters stances (Tao's rush against Goku, Piccolo regenerating his arm against Goku, Krilin and Gohan saving Vegeta from Recoome's Eraser Gun, Dende summoning Porunga on Earth, and USSJ Trunks' first attacks on Cell in episode 164). He also directed episode 120, which had great animation. Image Image
Miyahara Naoki's style is also great: his characters are less shady than Takeo's, but are a bit more serious and sometimes tend to wrinkle their noses (Frieza destroying a mountain on Namek, Cell's Makankosappo against Piccolo and Gohan's SSJ2 transformation in episode 184). Like Nakatsuru, he directed two episodes, 159 and 280, which were pretty nice. Image Image
Maybe Hideko Okimoto's style is similar to Maeda's, her characters have slightly narrower traits (last scenes of episode 48 of DBZ, the second part of Vegeta's power up in episode 84, the segment of Vegeta's nightmare in episode 124). Image Image
There are still other ones I didn't mention, but that's because I still haven't managed to recognize their styles (ex. Akira Inagami, Chikako Uesugi, and many others)
-Seigasha's animation quality improved dramatically from original DB to DBZ, and its style kept up with Toriyama's changing character model. Their episodes are awesomely animated, even though they were wasted for fillers, such as the infamous episode 125, in which Goku and Piccolo get a driver license... ugh, anyway:
Shimanuki Masahiro is very talented, I really love his unique style, which is very detailed and smooth, his characters got flawless proportions, maybe their eyes are slightly round, but they still look great (Kaioken Goku punching Vegeta in his stomach, Vegeta mad at Gohan for stealing his last Dragon Ball, Imperfect Cell powering up against Piccolo and 17, and Vegito's birth). His animation style is also recognizable in DBS, and, despite some criticism, I still like it, because it does still embody DBZ atmosphere, so I don't get why he's a bit criticized nowadays. Image Image
Hisada Kazuya's is very detailed as well, and a little slower and more angular than Shimanuki's, his scenes seem to share some 360°degrees rotation (Tien's one-handed Kikoho against Nappa, Vegeta's transformation into an Oozaru, Ginyu Force introducing themselves in Kaiosama's planet, SSJ Vegeta's Big Bang Attack against 19, SSJ2 Gohan's Kamehameha rejecting Cell's and many others). Image Image
Tate Naoki's is really good, I honestly think it's a mixture between Shimanuki and Hisada's styles, with the former's eyestyle and the latter's slow movements (SSJ Goku forfeiting his battle against Frieza, SSJ Vegeta punching 19, Piccolo's Light Grenade against Cell, SSJ2 Gohan kicking buff Cell and SSJGSSJ Goku karate chopping Golden Frieza). Image Image
However, Takeuchi Tomekichi's is odd: his style fit in DB, but was kind of dated throughout DBZ and due to this, it was called 'Caveman style', for his characters' twisted eyes, big ears and faster but jerky movements (even adding kinetic lines, typical of comic books). Although from late Cell saga, he seemed to get used to it and managed to keep up with his younger coworkers, so his kinetic lines disappeared almost completely (the scene with Cell using Kienzan against SSJ2 Gohan was done well, maybe thanks to Smimanuki's direction). Image Image
-On the other hand, Last House's episodes suffer a severe drop in quality animation throughout the series, which is too bad: in DB its animation was nice, just like Saiyan and Namek sagas in DBZ, even though it was keeping the DB model, unlike Seigasha, which was following the evolution of characters' development. Of course, it's not random that its decreasing quality coincides with Naotoshi Shida's departure, after episode 145 of DBZ, who was the only one able to give a bit more accurate details (Goku punching Jeice in the face, Vegeta's rampage against Ginyu, Goku escaping from Namek in his flashback, 18 breaking SSJ Vegeta's other arm). Image Image
Masayuki Uchiyama worked on animation direction and also as a key animator. While his style fit in DB, it just didn't work in DBZ, because it was closer to a cartoon than to an anime: wrong shading, lack of detail, and sometimes wrong proportions. I give him some credit, though, for female characters, who look younger than they should be, which is not a real issue. But, still, he animated a great amount of episodes (possibly because it was cheaper), which usually followed those animated by Seigasha or by Yamamuro Tadayoshi, which were much more accurate and closer to the original. Image
Ohara Taiichirou stayed at Last House until the end of the series, and just like Uchiyama, his drawing is cartoony-type and lacks of details. Honestly, I'm not a big fan of his animations, its proportions are slightly better than Uchiyama's, but I don't like some unnecessary details of his, such as the glare of Cell and SSJ's pupils, the characters' weird noses or their exaggerated sweat drops. For example, I just don't like his design for Frieza: he made his traits much gentler and blander and his lips were a bit more jutting than usual. However, I admit his animated scenes had a good fluidity and he even made some cool episodes in DB, the fight between Goku and Piccolo Daimao was drawn really well. I still think Last House's animation is far from the best, though. http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/dra ... 0226032944
Studio Live... is more consistent than Last House: while the latter's animation started off well and later dropped in quality, this one remained equally bad. A lot of DB fans believe Last House were the worst one... in my opinion, Studio Live is much worse than Last House. Image
Yukio Ebisawa, a.k.a. the Triangle **** Guy, draws his characters using wrong proportions, twisted traits, making everything triangle-shaped... even female characters (I just hate his design for Bulma, he made her eyes bigger and took up about half of her face). I'm sorry to say this, but he's the worst DBZ animator, his characters are simply ugly (Vegeta's giant forehead and distorted proportions). Those who strongly criticize DBS animation perhaps forget about what Ebisawa did in several episodes: not only his style was bad, but he even tried to make some great animators' work worse, such as Ide Takeo and Toshiyuki Kanno, who was literally the savior of Studio Live episodes. He had to render the episode at least decent, and even managed to create some great frames (Piccolo's Hellzone Grenade against 17, SSJ Vegeta attacking Cell, Majin Vegeta's sacrifice against Buu and Gogeta killing Janemba in Movie 12, this one was a proof of his huge talent, which was kind of held back by his director). Image
There are also other ones, such as Hiroshi Takeuchi, who was OK, and Tomoya Handa, who among the good one (Kanno) and the bad one (Ebisawa), was the decent one: his animations were nothing great, but nothing horrible, either. (Frieza trying to stop Goku's Genkidama, Dr. Gero absorbing Piccolo's energy).
Shindo Pro's animations, the so called 'Evil eye one', are good under Mitsuo Shindo's direction and awesomely detailed under Yamamuro Tadayoshi's supervision. He was part of the original team, along with Teruhisa Ryu and Noriko Shibata and at the moment contributes to the current character design in Dragon Ball franchise, too. Image
His animation style is just great, the proportions are perfect and the movements work really well, too. (Goku's Kaioken X20 against Frieza, ASSJ Vegeta's Final Flash, SSJ2 Goku and Majin Vegeta power struggle and SSJG Goku vs Beerus in episode 14 of DBS). Image
Studio Cockpit is really peculiar: their animations didn't follow Maeda and Tadayoshi's model and even so they were great and really accurate. Its chief animator was Keisuke Masunaga, who usually drew dark and serious expressions on characters, which is atypical for DB standards, but it worked (SSJ2 Gohan killing Cell, Gotenks turning SSJ3, SSJ2 Goku vs Kid Buu). Image
Freelance had interesting animation, too. It looked more animeish than some other animation studios, and was really not bad (Goku defeating Tien in 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai, Z-Fighters against Saibamen, Goku fighting Vegeta in episode 30, their last one). Image
Throughout the series, there are a lot of studios which made some really good-looking episodes (K-Production), but I can't recognize any of them thoroughly. I hope my thread didn't bore you, I wanted only to help who was interested in DB animation and couldn't identify the accurate key animator. I didn't include some other ones, simply because I don't know about their art style. So, yeah, that's it. :thumbup:

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Re: Dragon Ball Animators Thread

Post by Nejishiki » Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:11 pm

Interesting read and I liked your analysis. However, this is on the wrong section of the forum. :)

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Re: Dragon Ball Animators Thread

Post by Wezenheim » Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:26 pm

First and foremost, welcome to the forum! I really hope you enjoy your time here! This is a very good first post and I have come to very much love discussing animation. As the user above me said, this might be better suited for the General Franchise Discussion forum, and it deserves to be there because more people will see it. Id love to contribute to this and I will once I get home and dont have to type on my phone. Once again, welcome to Kanzenshuu!

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Re: Dragon Ball Animators Thread

Post by Ajay » Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:53 pm

His animation style is also recognizable in DBS, and, despite some criticism, I still like it, because it does still embody DBZ atmosphere, so I don't get why he's a bit criticized nowadays.
He's criticised because, much like Yamamuro, he's not a particularly good animator anymore. His work is remarkably stiff with mediocre timing. He hasn't remained consistent nor evolved with the industry.

He faced very heavy criticism early on in Super's life due to his inability to draw characters without hints of other shows seeping through -- in particular, One Piece.

That said, he's evolved a great deal, and really seems to have settled into drawing Dragon Ball once again. His style is quite nostalgic for me, even if I don't always find it particularly appealing. I just wish he still produced animation that was actually interesting.

It's a very stark contrast to Naoki Tate who went from a reasonably interesting animator into one of Toei's bests. Watching him evolve through One Piece was incredible. I'm thoroughly enjoying his work thus far on Super.

Anyway, welcome to forum!
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Re: Dragon Ball Animators Thread

Post by gaberparadiso » Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:16 pm

As for Shimanuki, I still think he's a great animator. Perhaps his works were better-looking in the past, but he did keep his art style in DBS.
For example, I enjoyed his key animation in the first part of episode 25, while the last one was just mediocre.

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Re: Dragon Ball Animators Thread

Post by Bansho64 » Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:23 pm

Glad to see someone pay attention to Masaki Sato for once instead of Minoru Maeda. I agree Shimanuki is definitely not as good as he was in the Z days but he's getting better each episode he's in. It's only a matter of time before he gets as good as he used to.

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Re: Dragon Ball Animators Thread

Post by TheBalishChannel » Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:09 am

gaberparadiso wrote:While [Masayuki Uchiyama's] style fit in DB, it just didn't work in DBZ, because it was closer to a cartoon than to an anime: wrong shading, lack of detail, and sometimes wrong proportions.
This opinion is largely shared among many users on the forum; whenever a discussion opens regarding the varying animation styles in Dragon Ball Z, people are quick to express their distaste for Masayuki Uchiyama's variation. In my opinion, I think that Uchiyama and his team's work is the most faithful out of any of the other animators' contributions in terms of retaining the original illustrations by Akira Toriyama.

Here is a comparison between Masayuki Uchiyama's and the much-respected Keisuke Masunaga's (Studio Cockpit) renditions for this iconic scene from the Cell arc:

Image

Uchiyama's art here is much more on-model to the original character models and doesn't try to derive from the comic. You'll also notice that there is a ton of detail:
• Goku's palette flickering between tones of blue to his regular color-scheme, symbolizing his spirit.
• The heavy dark shading contrasting with the bright light.
• Animated line borders around the screen, meant to express the sheer intensity of the Kamehameha Wave.

Let's take a look at another example; this shot of Frieza from Episode #88:

Image

A common complaint that I see here on the forums is that Uchiyama's work "lacks shading," when this drawing of Frieza alone is perhaps the most detailed out of any in the series. The shading on the top of Frieza's head, as well as his shoulders, gives off this semi-transparent look that no other animator (to my knowledge) even attempted. Everything looks so clean and smooth, with round proportions and excellent line-detail in the neck and chest areas-- just like Akira Toriyama's original comics.

I'd take even the most questionable of Masayuki Uchiyama's contributions over designs that look like this:

Image
Image
Image

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Re: Dragon Ball Animators Thread

Post by gaberparadiso » Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:49 am

Well, episode 190 ended with a really powerful scene, of Gohan's Father-Son Kamehameha, which, I admit, was done well. But let's take a look to an earlier episode.
Episode 185, animated by Yamamuro: the ending scene is so powerful, with SSJ2 Gohan ready to beat the **** out of Cell, who looks really frightened.
Image
Image

Episode 186, animated by Uchiyama: the difference is obvious.
Image
Image

As for Frieza, also this shot is really nice.
Image
It's animated by Naotoshi Shida, but overall, Last House episodes weren't badly animated in Frieza saga.
Especially if we compare it with this one.
Image

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Re: Dragon Ball Animators Thread

Post by gaberparadiso » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:24 am

Also, the purpose of my thread was to analyze one single episode, in order to find out who specifically animated some scenes.
For example, let's take episode 142 of DBZ: "The Kamehameha?! The Monster Who Possesses Goku’s Energy". Of course, I might be wrong:

-Masaki Sato: Cell powering up, Z-Fighters sense his ki.
-Hideko Okimoto: Cell charging his Kamehameha against Piccolo in the last part (?)
-Takashi Nashizawa: ?
-Akira Inagami: Piccolo beating Cell (??)
-Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru: Piccolo kicking Cell before his Makankosappo.
-Takeo Ide: Piccolo angrily tells Cell who he is and how he knows about the time machine (in the last part).
-Naoki Miyahara: Cell's Makankosappo.
Chikako Uesugi: ?
Kuniko Iwagami: ?

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Re: Dragon Ball Animators Thread

Post by jjgp1112 » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:47 am

Ide Takeo's stuff is pretty easy to pick out for me, to the point where I can identify pretty much everything he contributed to Maeda Minoru-supervised episodes in Dragon Ball and DBZ.
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words?
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
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Re: Dragon Ball Animators Thread

Post by gaberparadiso » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:52 am

Takeo's current style is quite easy to recognize, but I still mistake his older one for Esashi Higuchi's, especially in DB.

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Re: Dragon Ball Animators Thread

Post by Bansho64 » Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:04 pm

Did anyone else really like Uchiyama's SS2 Gohan? I really like how he made the hair shine but really light blondish at the same time. He drew sparks very well too.

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Re: Dragon Ball Animators Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:22 pm

Bansho64 wrote:Did anyone else really like Uchiyama's SS2 Gohan? I really like how he made the hair shine but really light blondish at the same time. He drew sparks very well too.
I think Uchiyama's SS2 Gohan is hands down the best work he ever did for Dragon Ball. But I also really adore Masunaga's rendition of the scene. It just has a much more unique flavour about it. I think it come down to how much expressive and wild the imagery is in comparison to how the scene appears in the manga. Sometimes deviating from the original art-style of the manga isn't always a bad thing. Hell, some of the best animation the franchise has ever produced is very un-Toriyama esque.
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Re: Dragon Ball Animators Thread

Post by Wezenheim » Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:35 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:Sometime deviating from the original art-style of the manga isn't always a bad thing. Hell, some of the best animation the franchise has ever production is very un-Toriyama esque.
Yeah, I was actually going to post something really similar. I love the work of guys Ide, Maeda, and Nakatsuru as much as anyone, but I also love when an animator has their own unique flavor (as in they stray from the original character models a bit) as well. Masunaga's facial expressions are intense and I love them. These days, you have supervisors doing work that is unlike what we have seen in Dragon Ball before, such as Toma Seizo and Tate Naoki. Toma of course had the really interesting thick outlines used in episode 4 of Dragon Ball Super and parts of episode 33. I enjoyed how striking a lot of Toma's characters looked with the outlines.
I also liked the way he drew Blooma:
With Tate of course, he has improved so much since his initial work on Dragon Ball, and his animation has been some of the most interesting we've seen in a Dragon Ball series. He's been criticized for being "off model", but I like his style.

When it comes to an anime adaptation, I still like seeing some variation in the animation. Not total anarchy (although that would probably be a little fun), but getting a few episodes here and there with guys like Masunaga and Toma is fun. The manga already exists, why not have a little fun here and there? With Super that isn't as much of a problem, so I hope style gets played with a little more.

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Re: Dragon Ball Animators Thread

Post by Bansho64 » Thu Jun 09, 2016 6:38 am

I've noticed since recently re-watching some episodes done by Masunaga and his crew that the art style in the Boo arc seems a little different than the ones used in the Cell arc. The Boo arc are longer and slimmer, whereas, the Cell arc episodes are a little bit slim but also bulkier. I big change you can notice is in the hair. Masunaga's Cell arc designs have longer and bigger hair for the characters. However, the Boo saga designs by him tend to have short and wavy hair on the characters. I have to say I greatly prefer the Cell and the Otherworld Tournament arc designs. Though when Vegeta was training with Kid Trunks, he looked like he did in the Cell arc Did anyone else notice the change?
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Re: Dragon Ball Animators Thread

Post by jjgp1112 » Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:17 am

There was definitely a change, though one thing to keep in mind that those Cell episodes were the first things they ever did for DBZ. It probably took them a bit to adjust to the style.
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words?
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
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Re: Dragon Ball Animators Thread

Post by JazzMazz » Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:59 pm

Very interesting thread, if you maybe cleared up the format for the first post a little to make it look a little more appeasing that would be very much appreciated. I'll probably contribute a little to this thread later down the line, but for now I would like to know just how accurate are these AMV's about certain animators styles?
All the ones that have been released so far.
Takeo Ide
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30WitjAb02s
Tadayoshi Yamamuro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ak3TAr1K6M
Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_TPjBwZMBc
Naotoshi Shida
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0ubFGiQZIg
Naoki Tate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VPtYZhseAo
Satou Masaki
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gS5SOGWIok
Kazuya Hisada
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btseWpnLNJk
Masahiro Shimanuki TV
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQeigIdorMY
Masahiro Shimauki Movie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjseB34YEKE
Now I personally have some disagreements with some of the choices on in their video's, but I believe it would be interesting to discuss what is the allocated animators work and what isn't.

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Re: Dragon Ball Animators Thread

Post by Trickster » Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:12 pm

Does anyone know who was the responsable this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MixioAoo75k ?

And this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iF84IzCuwU ?
Sorry for bad english. I'm not fluent in your language, so, if you want to correct some mistake of mine, please do it. I'll be grateful

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Re: Dragon Ball Animators Thread

Post by Nejishiki » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:12 am

Shida Naotoshi supervised the animation in both titles.

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