Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Draconic]

So question, how are we all rectifying the statement that not only will Goku and Vegeta not surpass Beerus but they won't even close to it when we already established in BOG that Goku had gotten to a level of over half Beerus power. If you want to use super content then how do you rectify that with Beerus Enraged Vegeta comment of 10%?

Vegeta just got a huge fuckin' boost.

[Overlord78]

So question, how are we all rectifying the statement that not only will Goku and Vegeta not surpass Beerus but they won't even close to it when we already established in BOG that Goku had gotten to a level of over half Beerus power. If you want to use super content then how do you rectify that with Beerus Enraged Vegeta comment of 10%?

Vegeta just got a huge fuckin' boost.

Vegeta probably surpassed everyone until SSG showed up with that rage boost.

[buutenks]

So question, how are we all rectifying the statement that not only will Goku and Vegeta not surpass Beerus but they won't even close to it when we already established in BOG that Goku had gotten to a level of over half Beerus power. If you want to use super content then how do you rectify that with Beerus Enraged Vegeta comment of 10%?

Did toriyama say goku and vegeta arent even close?

Goku and vegeta so far are a 7.5 on the scale at best. They got from 6 to 7.5 in 2 arcs. Lets say there will be 3 more arcs, they can go from 7.5 to 8.5 then 9,9.5 etc till they will surpass beerus.

Beerus used 10% to safely tank vegeta's galic gun.

But i dont get whats the problem. No one apart from goku, vegeta,freeza and hit(maybe monaka also) are on the 1-10 scale.

Plus i like that beerus is just a bit stronger than them. if no 1-15 statements and 10% statements would have been made, one would thin beerus is a billion times stronger than goku and vegeta.

Atleast we have an idea of the max and min. Cannot be more than 5 times stronger, and cannot be less than 1.3.

[Draconic]

So question, how are we all rectifying the statement that not only will Goku and Vegeta not surpass Beerus but they won't even close to it when we already established in BOG that Goku had gotten to a level of over half Beerus power. If you want to use super content then how do you rectify that with Beerus Enraged Vegeta comment of 10%?

Vegeta just got a huge fuckin' boost.

Vegeta probably surpassed everyone until SSG showed up with that rage boost.

That was already kind of a given. Super also calls that boost a mutation so maybe he kept that power up even after cooling down. It makes him achieve god level so fast a little less bullshit, but I'm just rambling and there's nothing to back that up.

[dbzfan7]

Dragon Ball has always been inconsistent with its feats. Roshi can bust the moon yet is weaker than Piccolo Daimao who never showed anything on that level and Piccolo Jr who is stronger only managed to destroy an island, we never see any moon busting feats until the Saiyan Saga then. Freeza is the first guy we know that can planet bust easily yet we don't see any planets getting destroyed again until Buu shows up which means people powerscale everyone in the Cell saga from Freeza. Sure there's Cell's solar system buster statement but most people ignore that and call it a hyperbole. Then we have Beerus who destroys planets and stars just by sneezing and has the power to destroy the universe going from his fight with Goku and his "fight" with Champa which implied similar destruction but with 2 universes involved. We most likely won't be seeing anything on that level until probably the final villain. I do agree with you that only Whis, Vados, Beerus and Champa should be at that level at the moment.

Inconsistency does not mean, hey let's never be consistent. There's no point in escalating something, if it won't make any sense later.

I'm not talking about what is, but what should have been. People already find it odd how tons of weaker attacks from people many times greater than the moon buster Roshi and early Piccolo, don't devastate the land, and planet easily. People came up with the condensing excuse which just like punch at the right angle one, is a dumb cop out. I say only those 4 should be that strong, or otherwise that great threat should be around. It's almost like it never actually happened, because there's never really a problem with Goku and Vegeta fighting or fighting others. That was the big take away from the Beerus fight. That level was so dangerous, that it threatened the universe. But now it could have never happened, and really we wouldn't have missed anything.



The point is just a fight on that level is bad. That was the take away from Beerus. It's not safe to fight at that level. And yet with Freeza and so on, it's never a threat again. Goku's getting wailed on and can't counter, and there's no threat at all.

I dont mind, considering so far only whis,vados champa and beerus are at that level.

Goku, vegeta or freeza by themselves dont have the power to destroy a universe, those shockwaves were created with the help of beerus also.

Beerus fought on Goku's level. That means anyone else who fights on Goku's level, can cause the same thing with him. Otherwise Beerus would overpower Goku if he was 100% all the time. Freeza was above Goku, beating the shit out of him, and nothing happened. Goku couldn't have prevented some of those blows, and yet nothing was really different at all.

[Overlord78]

Dragon Ball has always been inconsistent with its feats. Roshi can bust the moon yet is weaker than Piccolo Daimao who never showed anything on that level and Piccolo Jr who is stronger only managed to destroy an island, we never see any moon busting feats until the Saiyan Saga then. Freeza is the first guy we know that can planet bust easily yet we don't see any planets getting destroyed again until Buu shows up which means people powerscale everyone in the Cell saga from Freeza. Sure there's Cell's solar system buster statement but most people ignore that and call it a hyperbole. Then we have Beerus who destroys planets and stars just by sneezing and has the power to destroy the universe going from his fight with Goku and his "fight" with Champa which implied similar destruction but with 2 universes involved. We most likely won't be seeing anything on that level until probably the final villain. I do agree with you that only Whis, Vados, Beerus and Champa should be at that level at the moment.

Inconsistency does not mean, hey let's never be consistent. There's no point in escalating something, if it won't make any sense later.

Never said it shouldn't try to be consistent. It would be much better if it was but like I said Dragon Ball has always been inconsistent across DB, DBZ, GT and now Super. Super doesn't explain much anyway and I doubt it will explain most of the questions we may have which is unfortunate.

[Birusu16]

So question, how are we all rectifying the statement that not only will Goku and Vegeta not surpass Beerus but they won't even close to it when we already established in BOG that Goku had gotten to a level of over half Beerus power. If you want to use super content then how do you rectify that with Beerus Enraged Vegeta comment of 10%?

Did toriyama say goku and vegeta arent even close?

Goku and vegeta so far are a 7.5 on the scale at best. They got from 6 to 7.5 in 2 arcs. Lets say there will be 3 more arcs, they can go from 7.5 to 8.5 then 9,9.5 etc till they will surpass beerus.

Beerus used 10% to safely tank vegeta's galic gun.

But i dont get whats the problem. No one apart from goku, vegeta,freeza and hit(maybe monaka also) are on the 1-10 scale.

Plus i like that beerus is just a bit stronger than them. if no 1-15 statements and 10% statements would have been made, one would thin beerus is a billion times stronger than goku and vegeta.

Atleast we have an idea of the max and min. Cannot be more than 5 times stronger, and cannot be less than 1.3.

Except that scale isn't reliable anymore. That's the entire problem. If it was then Goku would surpass Beerus after using KK seeing as it multiplies your power. Toriyama made it quite clear that Goku and Vegeta won't be surpassing Beerus anytime soon meaning Goku even with SSJB and KK stacked on top of it is weaker than Beerus.

[dbzfan7]

Never said it shouldn't try to be consistent. It would be much better if it was but like I said Dragon Ball has always been inconsistent across DB, DBZ, GT and now Super. Super doesn't explain much anyway and I doubt it will explain most of the questions we may have which is unfortunate.

Which is why "Dragon Ball has never been consistent" Should never be uttered as an end all be all, especially in this thread. It's a cop out answer. We all know this fact, yet we still theorize and make sense of nonsense anyways. Otherwise this entire thread could just be answered with that statement, and we shouldn't bother discussing any of the topics this thread brought up, period.

[buutenks]

Be glad u dont read comics then, because you will go mad due to the level of inconsistancy.

I take it how it is, they showed in bog how powerful ssg and beerus is and done. And in u6 arc, they tell us again, look beerus and champa are indeed that powerful BOG wasnt a mere fluke.

Plus showing the shockwaves again in ROf wouldnt make much sense since we saw them in BOG.

[Bullza]

We should probably just wait to see how the episode plays out before we jump to conclusions.

[Overlord78]

Never said it shouldn't try to be consistent. It would be much better if it was but like I said Dragon Ball has always been inconsistent across DB, DBZ, GT and now Super. Super doesn't explain much anyway and I doubt it will explain most of the questions we may have which is unfortunate.

Which is why "Dragon Ball has never been consistent" Should never be uttered as an end all be all, especially in this thread. It's a cop out answer. We all know this fact, yet we still theorize and make sense of nonsense anyways. Otherwise this entire thread could just be answered with that statement, and we shouldn't bother discussing any of the topics this thread brought up, period.

I agree but it would be much better if Super would actually start explaining shit itself instead of us trying to make some sense of this most of the time. That 6-10-15 scale might have also gone out of the window now if Goku ends up using kaioken on top of his SSB form yet is still weaker than Beerus due to Toriyama stating he doesn't plan on having Goku and Vegeta surpassing Beerus and Whis currently.

[dbzfan7]

Plus showing the shockwaves again in ROf wouldnt make much sense since we saw them in BOG.

Actually it'd make for the perfect sense, and ultimate drama of the arc. Freeza being so obsessed with winning, he'd destroy the whole universe in a battle just to kill Goku. Would have been much better, much more tense, and more personal than that shit I call the F arc.

Which is why "Dragon Ball has never been consistent" Should never be uttered as an end all be all, especially in this thread. It's a cop out answer. We all know this fact, yet we still theorize and make sense of nonsense anyways. Otherwise this entire thread could just be answered with that statement, and we shouldn't bother discussing any of the topics this thread brought up, period.

I agree but it would be much better if Super would actually start explaining shit itself instead of us trying to make some sense of this most of the time. That 6-10-15 might have also gone out of the window now if Goku ends up using kaioken on top of his SSB form yet is still weaker than Beerus due to Toriyama stating he doesn't plan on having Goku and Vegeta surpassing Beerus and Whis currently.

Which is pretty much how so far we are going to explain that event if (And really I mean when) there's no explanation at all. However there's still that 10% line to basically make things even worse. For that I suppose he wasn't really using that much, or just used that much to not be damaged in the slightest, where it wouldn't take nearly that amount to beat Vegeta I guess.

[Overlord78]

Be glad u dont read comics then, because you will go mad due to the level of inconsistancy.

I take it how it is, they showed in bog how powerful ssg and beerus is and done. And in u6 arc, they tell us again, look beerus and champa are indeed that powerful BOG wasnt a mere fluke.

Plus showing the shockwaves again in ROf wouldnt make much sense since we saw them in BOG.

I do read comics and there is a lot of inconsistency but that's mainly due to comics having multiple writers most of the time. It doesn't help when some of these writers end up saying Odin is only planet level when we've seen much higher showings from him.

[Overlord78]

Plus showing the shockwaves again in ROf wouldnt make much sense since we saw them in BOG.

Actually it'd make for the perfect sense, and ultimate drama of the arc. Freeza being so obsessed with winning, he'd destroy the whole universe in a battle just to kill Goku. Would have been much better, much more tense, and more personal than that shit I call the F arc.

Which is why "Dragon Ball has never been consistent" Should never be uttered as an end all be all, especially in this thread. It's a cop out answer. We all know this fact, yet we still theorize and make sense of nonsense anyways. Otherwise this entire thread could just be answered with that statement, and we shouldn't bother discussing any of the topics this thread brought up, period.

I agree but it would be much better if Super would actually start explaining shit itself instead of us trying to make some sense of this most of the time. That 6-10-15 might have also gone out of the window now if Goku ends up using kaioken on top of his SSB form yet is still weaker than Beerus due to Toriyama stating he doesn't plan on having Goku and Vegeta surpassing Beerus and Whis currently.

Which is pretty much how so far we are going to explain that event if (And really I mean when) there's no explanation at all. However there's still that 10% line to basically make things even worse. For that I suppose he wasn't really using that much, or just used that much to not be damaged in the slightest, where it wouldn't take nearly that amount to beat Vegeta I guess.

I never liked that Vegeta rage boost. A boost like that would have helped him immensely when he got angry at Cell for blasting Trunks.

[dbzfan7]

I never liked that Vegeta rage boost. A boost like that would have helped him immensely when he got angry at Cell for blasting Trunks.

I've already went on and on about how absolutely stupid that was. Not only did Vegeta rip off Gohan for a brief moment that never comes up again, he dials up the Gohan trait to 1000. It was absolutely dumb glorification. It's one of the dumbest things from the Neo Dragon Ball era. I despise that garbage with a passion. At least going SSJ3 would have made some more sense. For some reason like Valve, Vegeta just can't count to 3. So he skips it like he did in GT.

[TheMikado]

Be glad u dont read comics then, because you will go mad due to the level of inconsistancy.

I take it how it is, they showed in bog how powerful ssg and beerus is and done. And in u6 arc, they tell us again, look beerus and champa are indeed that powerful BOG wasnt a mere fluke.

Plus showing the shockwaves again in ROf wouldnt make much sense since we saw them in BOG.

I do read comics and there is a lot of inconsistency but that's mainly due to comics having multiple writers most of the time. It doesn't help when some of these writers end up saying Odin is only planet level when we've seen much higher showings from him.

Exactly these are even different series across different eras.
I have NEVER in all my years of reading comics seen the SAME writer in the SAME series recont so many things so many times. This is not a level of inconsistency that is normal in any good manga or comic series.

[TheMikado]

I never liked that Vegeta rage boost. A boost like that would have helped him immensely when he got angry at Cell for blasting Trunks.

I've already went on and on about how absolutely stupid that was. Not only did Vegeta rip off Gohan for a brief moment that never comes up again, he dials up the Gohan trait to 1000. It was absolutely dumb glorification. It's one of the dumbest things from the Neo Dragon Ball era. I despise that garbage with a passion. At least going SSJ3 would have made some more sense. For some reason like Valve, Vegeta just can't count to 3. So he skips it like he did in GT.

The difference is Vegeta never gets a rage boost in GT that's ABOVE SSJ3 levels.. I doubt they were even half SSJ3 levels.

[buutenks]

Dont see the point of vegeta going ssj3 for a brief moment only to unlock ssj blue the next arc, especially since bog arc was so short.

Plus, who knows how you unlock ssj3. Goku had to train in the afterlife, and the kids required fusion to obtain it. I doubt ssj3 is obtained with rage.

Plus ssj3 vegeta looks ugly IMO hehe ^^ Also vegeta raging was very cool, especially how surprised beerus was hehe.

[Overlord78]

I never liked that Vegeta rage boost. A boost like that would have helped him immensely when he got angry at Cell for blasting Trunks.

I've already went on and on about how absolutely stupid that was. Not only did Vegeta rip off Gohan for a brief moment that never comes up again, he dials up the Gohan trait to 1000. It was absolutely dumb glorification. It's one of the dumbest things from the Neo Dragon Ball era. I despise that garbage with a passion. At least going SSJ3 would have made some more sense. For some reason like Valve, Vegeta just can't count to 3. So he skips it like he did in GT.

It really is dumb and it doesn't make any sense unless he only gets a major power boost when Bulma gets slapped (sorry Trunks). Funny how Vegeta has skipped the SSJ3 transformation in both GT and Super now yet a lot of Vegeta fans still want him to have that form. Like you said it would have been a bit better if he just transformed into a SSJ3.

[dbzfan7]

Dont see the point of vegeta going ssj3 for a brief moment only to unlock ssj blue the next arc, especially since bog arc was so short.

Plus, who knows how you unlock ssj3. Goku had to train in the afterlife, and the kids required fusion to obtain it. I doubt ssj3 is obtained with rage.

I don't see that as any different from SSJ God being tossed aside in that same manner. Vegeta doesn't even go for that. He skips it. So I don't see a problem in him getting SSJ3, or having just used SSJ3 the whole time. SSJ3 has no rules, so it may as well have been used instead of the god awful I'm copying Gohan angle, and then magnifying that to even more ludicrous levels for no good reason.

I never liked that Vegeta rage boost. A boost like that would have helped him immensely when he got angry at Cell for blasting Trunks.

I've already went on and on about how absolutely stupid that was. Not only did Vegeta rip off Gohan for a brief moment that never comes up again, he dials up the Gohan trait to 1000. It was absolutely dumb glorification. It's one of the dumbest things from the Neo Dragon Ball era. I despise that garbage with a passion. At least going SSJ3 would have made some more sense. For some reason like Valve, Vegeta just can't count to 3. So he skips it like he did in GT.

It really is dumb and it doesn't make any sense unless he only gets a major power boost when Bulma gets slapped (sorry Trunks). Funny how Vegeta has skipped the SSJ3 transformation in both GT and Super now yet a lot of Vegeta fans still want him to have that form. Like you said it would have been a bit better if he just transformed into a SSJ3.

Now it's too late to give it to him of course, but why couldn't he just attack Beerus futility anyways? Show he doesn't give a crap if he dies or gets beat up. So he is beat up, but comes off as a badass with a heart. Not that fanfic glorifying bullshit.