Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Draconic]

Two base theory is dead. Finally.

[namekiansaiyan]

Two base theory is dead. Finally.

Finally after about 100 pages of nonsense.

[Sora Saiyan]

I don't see why Hit just doesn't do to Goku what he did to Frost. He annihilated him in a tenth of a second. Since from Hits perspective it's like freezing time It would be impossible for Goku to block those attacks.

[buutenks]

I don't see why Hit just doesn't do to Goku what he did to Frost. He annihilated him in a tenth of a second. Since from Hits perspective it's like freezing time It would be impossible for Goku to block those attacks.

He will do the move which he did on frost in next ep.

So basically, Hit has been underestimating goku.

Also, it not time freeza its time skip.

Basically hit punches and skips to his punch already connecting with his enemy. Goku predicted where hit will punch and blocks it.

[Sora Saiyan]

I don't see why Hit just doesn't do to Goku what he did to Frost. He annihilated him in a tenth of a second. Since from Hits perspective it's like freezing time It would be impossible for Goku to block those attacks.

He will do the move which he did on frost in next ep.

So basically, Hit has been underestimating goku.

Also, it not time freeza its time skip.

Basically hit punches and skips to his punch already connecting with his enemy. Goku predicted where hit will punch and blocks it.

The summary for episode 38 says this.

Galactic King pipes up, suggesting that Hit might be using “Time-Skip”...
According to rumor, certain people have the ability to “skip” time ahead, although only by one-tenths of a second. Simply put, from their perspective they are able to stop time for everyone besides themselves

This makes sense, if Hit just sped up time Vegeta would've punched him after he caught his fist way before Hit landed a punch on Vegeta, but instead Vegetas fist didn't speed up in the slightest even though he was close to landing the punch before Hit used his time skip.

[apex_pretador]

1. This would cheapen the idea of Buu being the ultimate threat to the universe if guys like Botamo, Frost, Piccolo, Cabba, Magetta etc. can beat him in one hit. We know for a fact at this point that Base Goku post SSG >>>>>>>> Kid Buu.

I assume that something made from scrap in a cave being able to kill the strongest being in the universe in one hit , at his full power doesn't cheapen the emperor of the universe? Or two teenagers with some mechanical implants doing the same?

4. It cheapens the idea of godly ki if there are too many people with it running around. Beerus, Whis, Hit, Goku and Vegeta and maybe Monaka are enough. We don't need Piccolo having godly ki out of nowhere, Cabba, Magetta, Frost etc. as well. It, again, cheapens the idea of Buu being the greatest threat to the universe.

Kaioshin

[TheMikado]

Power levels never made that much sense to begin with (it was just a hype tool, which worked).

Master Roshi with a power level of no more than 300, destroyed the entire moon. If the average person is at 5, there is no way that can ever happen.

No, your talking about specific numbers. When the creators and writers start inserting numbers into the narrative to describe strength how can you expect people to not hold you you to it and then not talk about it when you do something that goes against what you said.

[TheMikado]

Two base theory is dead. Finally.

Finally after about 100 pages of nonsense.

So how does this confirm the two base theory is dead? Or does every just accept Piccolo got a 20,000% power boost? Like seriously?

[TheMikado]

No it's not. Piccolo charging Makankosappo surpassed Raditz's power level. That doesn't mean that Piccolo overall is stronger than Raditz, lol.

Also, Saiyan Saga Goku said Vegeta was much stronger than him after their fight, even though Goku surpassed Vegeta's power level for short amounts of time with the Kaioken.

Yes it is. Surpassing someone temporarily is still surpassing them.

Um, no, you can't throw Toriyama's statements out the window. They're called "word of God" for a reason. They were also reiterated in Super. End of story.

No they weren't. That 6/10/15 scale was never uttered again after that one interview, which came right after BoGs ended and far before Super was even thought of. If nothing even remotely aligns with that scale in Super (and absolutely nothing does) then I certainly can doubt the legitimacy of it at this point.

That's not true and you know it. We have the 10% line right in the beginning of Super which again falls in line with the 6/10/15 line.

You're going to have to accept that in universe Beerus said he was using around 10% of his power against a pre God SSJ2 Vegeta. Meaning if he got just 10x stronger he could theoritically taken Beerus himself.

Yet with a difference in power SSB is able to tank SSJ Cabbas punch to the head and one punch KO him.

[ssbgoku]

Great episode, but actually brought more confusion then clarificaiton . It seems dbs follows "technique/skill more matter then just raw power if the gap isn't such wide" pattern. At least we knoe monaca was bait and Hit had to be at least stronger then golden frieza due to suprassing previous villian theme.

Hit 100% - 8.5
ssb goku/vegeta - 8-8.2
ssj goku/vegeta - 7
ssj cabba - 6.6
base goku/vegeta - 6.5
suprassed ssj goku - 6.2
suprassed hit - 6
final form frost - 6 (goku baited frost in transforming)
Piccolo's beam attack - 5.5
Assault form frost - 4
suprassed base goku - 3.5
100% magenta - 6
suprassed final form frost - 3
initial magenta -2.5
first form frost - 1
Picoolo - 1
very suprassed base goku - 0.8
botamo - 0.5

Ok, This is how I see it ;p. You can tell me I am pulling these numbers out of my ass but at least this is hierarchy how I see it ;p

Also just wild idea, but maybe Hit's punches are more then speed and precision but actually blows out stamina from victim or even energy, so the stronger you are then damage will be on your level if connected, that would be very hax

[Sora Saiyan]

That's not true and you know it. We have the 10% line right in the beginning of Super which again falls in line with the 6/10/15 line.

You're going to have to accept that in universe Beerus said he was using around 10% of his power against a pre God SSJ2 Vegeta. Meaning if he got just 10x stronger he could theoritically taken Beerus himself.

Yet with a difference in power SSB is able to tank SSJ Cabbas punch to the head and one punch KO him.

Just gotta say that yes Beerus used 10% of his power, but Vegeta clearly wasn't equal to that as Beerus didn't get a single mark from Vegetas attacks. And that wasn't just a standard SSJ2 Vegeta, it was his "furious mutation". I only have Vegeta at like 3% Beerus at that point. He definitely wasn't equal to Beerus anyway.

[namekiansaiyan]

Two base theory is dead. Finally.

Finally after about 100 pages of nonsense.

So how does this confirm the two base theory is dead? Or does every just accept Piccolo got a 20,000% power boost? Like seriously?

Where does 20000% come from you dont know anyone's power as a number.

[buutenks]

I still see it as this:

base goku/vegeta/cabe=ssj3 tier
FF frost=above ssj3 tier
Piccolo=ssj3 tier
ssj=vegetto level
ssj blue=god tier
hit=god tier.

[TheMikado]

Finally after about 100 pages of nonsense.

So how does this confirm the two base theory is dead? Or does every just accept Piccolo got a 20,000% power boost? Like seriously?

Where does 20000% come from you dont know anyone's power as a number.

The number comes from. Assuming Piccolo got to Super Perfect Cell levels at BoG arc. There's nothing to say he's any higher and I am actually being highly generous compared to others on the board.

Starting from there we know to get to Buu levels it's a x4 increase based on SSJ3 multipler.
However we also know SSJ3 with is less than 10% of Beerus.
We also know base Goku is now SSJ3 level, so just to get to base Piccolo would need to get 4x stronger.
Now we add the SSJ multiplier of X 50 to get Gokus New SSJ With God base which gets him up to that 6 on the God scale. Which we know Frost is just below.

Assuming we started at SPC levels then he would need An x200 (50 X 4) boost to get to that level. Or 20,000% even if you wants to start at SPC levels and get to 3 or 4 you're still talking about a 10,000 - 15,000% increase!

[apex_pretador]

Spoiler:

So how does this confirm the two base theory is dead? Or does every just accept Piccolo got a 20,000% power boost? Like seriously?

Where does 20000% come from you dont know anyone's power as a number.

Spoiler:

The number comes from. Assuming Piccolo got to Super Perfect Cell levels at BoG arc. There's nothing to say he's any higher and I am actually being highly generous compared to others on the board.

Spoiler:

Starting from there we know to get to Buu levels it's a x4 increase based on SSJ3 multipler.
However we also know SSJ3 with is less than 10% of Beerus.
We also know base Goku is now SSJ3 level, so just to get to base Piccolo would need to get 4x stronger.
Now we add the SSJ multiplier of X 50 to get Gokus New SSJ With God base which gets him up to that 6 on the God scale. Which we know Frost is just below.

Assuming we started at SPC levels then he would need An x200 (50 X 4) boost to get to that level. Or 20,000% even if you wants to start at SPC levels and get to 3 or 4 you're still talking about a 10,000 - 15,000% increase!

When did piccolo get to "that level" of SS goku?
Because I believe it is pretty obvious that even suppressed SS goku can one-shot frost final form, and piccolo actually had a significant power disadvantage against frost, even after weakened.

Also,

However we also know SSJ3 with is less than 10% of Beerus

More like - a finger-flick material to "nowhere near 10%" beerus.

[TheMikado]

Great episode, but actually brought more confusion then clarificaiton . It seems dbs follows "technique/skill more matter then just raw power if the gap isn't such wide" pattern. At least we knoe monaca was bait and Hit had to be at least stronger then golden frieza due to suprassing previous villian theme.

Look I'm all for technique battles but they spent the last two arc focusing exclusively on power levels. Then try to do a technique battle where Piccolo is basically a none factor but still working against God tier characters, Cabba gets one shotted by a SSB God tier character, SSB gets physically wrecked by Hit in three hits where base Goku takes a few hits from Hit and is still fighting.

Technique is fine but either God powers matter or they don't. You can have it both ways and have your cake and eat it too.

[ssbgoku]

I still see it as this:

base goku/vegeta/cabe=ssj3 tier
FF frost=above ssj3 tier
Piccolo=ssj3 tier
ssj=vegetto level
ssj blue=god tier
hit=god tier.

Could be, but I can not understand why couldn't just base goku couldn't be supressed and turns into ssj. It would make much more sense for it to work like that ;p.
Also multipliers don't work on god scale, the god scale just shows the gap but we don't know if it is linear or exponential and even then gap of 1 could be in millions lol.

100% ssj goku - 7.44(x1.20)
100% base goku - 6.2
suprassed 10% ssj goku - 0.74 (x1.20)
suprassed 10% base goku - 0.62

while in not god scale we could have:

100% ssj goku - 5000(x50)
10% ssj goku - 500(x50)
100% base goku -100
10% base goku - 10

so 100% base goku = 2% ssj goku lol

Great episode, but actually brought more confusion then clarificaiton . It seems dbs follows "technique/skill more matter then just raw power if the gap isn't such wide" pattern. At least we knoe monaca was bait and Hit had to be at least stronger then golden frieza due to suprassing previous villian theme.

Look I'm all for technique battles but they spent the last two arc focusing exclusively on power levels. Then try to do a technique battle where Piccolo is basically a none factor but still working against God tier characters, Cabba gets one shotted by a SSB God tier character, SSB gets physically wrecked by Hit in three hits where base Goku takes a few hits from Hit and is still fighting.

Technique is fine but either God powers matter or they don't. You can have it both ways and have your cake and eat it too.

that just means either Hit uses your victim energy for extra blow or blowing stamina out of them besides physcial hits, this is how I see it;p. The stronger opponent is then stronger punch of hit is IF it connects, that may be his secret and it would be pretty hax.

Besides I am pretty sure base goku and ssj goku were supressed read my other comments here to see it

[TheMikado]

Spoiler:

Where does 20000% come from you dont know anyone's power as a number.

Spoiler:

The number comes from. Assuming Piccolo got to Super Perfect Cell levels at BoG arc. There's nothing to say he's any higher and I am actually being highly generous compared to others on the board.

Spoiler:

Starting from there we know to get to Buu levels it's a x4 increase based on SSJ3 multipler.
However we also know SSJ3 with is less than 10% of Beerus.
We also know base Goku is now SSJ3 level, so just to get to base Piccolo would need to get 4x stronger.
Now we add the SSJ multiplier of X 50 to get Gokus New SSJ With God base which gets him up to that 6 on the God scale. Which we know Frost is just below.

Assuming we started at SPC levels then he would need An x200 (50 X 4) boost to get to that level. Or 20,000% even if you wants to start at SPC levels and get to 3 or 4 you're still talking about a 10,000 - 15,000% increase!

When did piccolo get to "that level" of SS goku?
Because I believe it is pretty obvious that even suppressed SS goku can one-shot frost final form, and piccolo actually had a significant power disadvantage against frost, even after weakened.

Also,

However we also know SSJ3 with is less than 10% of Beerus

More like - a finger-flick material to "nowhere near 10%" beerus.

So know we're to the point where to rationalize it SSJ Goku is so far about Frost he can one shot him as a surpressed SSJ? Is that the general consensus, because if so my power scale is completely off.

[apex_pretador]

Assuming we started at SPC levels then he would need An x200 (50 X 4) boost to get to that level. Or 20,000% even if you wants to start at SPC levels and get to 3 or 4 you're still talking about a 10,000 - 15,000% increase!

When did piccolo get to "that level" of SS goku?
Because I believe it is pretty obvious that even suppressed SS goku can one-shot frost final form, and piccolo actually had a significant power disadvantage against frost, even after weakened.

Also,

However we also know SSJ3 with is less than 10% of Beerus

More like - a finger-flick material to "nowhere near 10%" beerus.

So know we're to the point where to rationalize it SSJ Goku is so far about Frost he can one shot him as a surpressed SSJ? Is that the general consensus, because if so my power scale is completely off.

Is it not obvious from the battle, and vegeta nearly killing him in one blow which tore through the vados barrier like glass , while vegeta was holding back?

[buutenks]

Could be, but I can not understand why couldn't just base goku couldn't be supressed and turns into ssj. It would make much more sense for it to work like that ;p.
Also multipliers don't work on god scale, the god scale just shows the gap but we don't know if it is linear or exponential and even then gap of 1 could be in millions lol.

100% ssj goku - 7.44(x1.20)
100% base goku - 6.2
suprassed 10% ssj goku - 0.74 (x1.20)
suprassed 10% base goku - 0.62

while in not god scale we could have:

100% ssj goku - 5000(x50)
10% ssj goku - 500(x50)
100% base goku -100
10% base goku - 10

so 100% base goku = 2% ssj goku lol

Could be also.

Either way i find it hard to believe the u6 fighters apart from hit r god tier, based on the fact that they werent all that impressive.