Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

[Wezenheim]

Those are interesting points ekrolo2, certainly more interesting than many of the arguments I typically see against Tate. I hadn't really thought about the "force behind punches" thing, although I certainly agree that that is a problem Super in general has had since the beginning. I think Tate has a fair amount of force behind some of his sequences (like the part where Hit kicked Goku in the stomach and punched him in the jaw) but that's just me, I can see what you are saying and I don't completely disagree. You also made me realize how much I miss the old sound effects! I can agree that some Tate shots when people aren't moving can be distracting, but if that is a result of Tate having to prioritize his action sequences, I think I prefer that. After all, ugly shots when characters aren't moving is nothing new in Super.

I think the next episode from what I can tell in the NEP seems to be more in line with something that might feel closer to Z. There was some good looking choreography there and some good gut punches. Might not be the pinnacle of good animation, but something that might very well be enjoyable to watch, especially since Ken Ootsuka is apparently doing some work for it.

[saiyanvegetable]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_RBuR1Rcsg

From 10:39 - 11:20. animation doesn't need to be "super fluid" to be good. That's my main problem with Tate. His cuts are obviously the best in Super, but going back to that Goku VS Frieza cut, it's much more satisfying. Making people move like watery gloop is not something I'd want to see in Dragonball. A perfect example is when Goku gets hit by Frieza's air ki thing (whatever you call it). Yuu can actually feel the impact on Goku and see the force of it move his body in a dynamic way.

[Ajay]

For sure. I don't think anyone's arguing against that. Good animation comes in all shapes and sizes. I like to see a good a mix!

The argument is simply that Dragon Ball doesn't need to move in a particular way, so it's fine to have variations from animator to animator.

[Wezenheim]

Lord knows I certainly enjoyed plenty of moments in the original anime, especially when it comes to choreography! Goku vs. Freeza especially had some really fun bits. It isn't Yu Yu Hakusho level when it comes to actual animation, but there was certainly never anything wrong with it and it was still exciting. Like Ajay, I just think variety is cool every now and again. We have mini Yamamuros like Kitano and Ishikawa that do okay, and Karasawa is really talented. A Tate episode every now and again is a cool bonus, kind of like Masunaga although a different kind of different (if that makes sense).

[Bansho64]

Why do people love Masunaga but hate Tate? They both have fluid animation and they both have different styles from the original. I do have to admit that I like Masunaga wayyyy more though.

[ekrolo2]

Why do people love Masunaga but hate Tate? They both have fluid animation and they both have different styles from the original.

The problem isn't that it's different, they both are but Masunaga manages to both look appealing and delivers on the action front. Tate kind of delivers on the action but his hits lack any sort of impact and while he's had his moments, his style makes the character looks really off-putting for me when they're standing still.

[Wezenheim]

Why do people love Masunaga but hate Tate? They both have fluid animation and they both have different styles from the original. I do have to admit that I like Masunaga wayyyy more though.

People have their preferences, as I said above the two are a "different kind of different." I'm sure there are people who don't like Masunaga. Just a matter of opinions, I suppose!

[DarkPrince_92]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_RBuR1Rcsg

From 10:39 - 11:20. animation doesn't need to be "super fluid" to be good. That's my main problem with Tate. His cuts are obviously the best in Super, but going back to that Goku VS Frieza cut, it's much more satisfying. Making people move like watery gloop is not something I'd want to see in Dragonball. A perfect example is when Goku gets hit by Frieza's air ki thing (whatever you call it). Yuu can actually feel the impact on Goku and see the force of it move his body in a dynamic way.

That's mostly Shimanuki and Hisada towards the end there.

But I get what you mean. He's come a long way since he was first on DBZ. He mimicked Shimanuki in a way, then slowly strayed into a style newer animes have. It's kind of cool and stylized, but it doesn't suit Dragonball as well as other work.

Some of my favorites from him are all here: https://youtu.be/ybiFm958WV0?t=4m55s

[DragonHermit]

The worst episodes in Super are ones that Tate was involved in.

His style needs WAY too much time to get the art work right. It's not suited for a weekly show.

[Sodhi]

His style needs WAY too much time to get the art work right. It's not suited for a weekly show.

Not true he has worked in weekly series before too.

[DragonHermit]

His style needs WAY too much time to get the art work right. It's not suited for a weekly show.

Not true he has worked in weekly series before too.

Yeah, always "fluid" but art work is awful

[Sodhi]

Yeah, always "fluid" but art work is awful

That sounds like more of a opinion to me rather than a fact that his style is not fit for weekly series.

[ArchedThunder]

The worst episodes in Super are ones that Tate was involved in.

His style needs WAY too much time to get the art work right. It's not suited for a weekly show.

Tate has some of the best cuts in the series.

[Wezenheim]

The worst episodes in Super are ones that Tate was involved in.

His style needs WAY too much time to get the art work right. It's not suited for a weekly show.

What? Other than episode 5, an episode that wasn't even his fault, what episode of his looks that bad? I'm not even sure episode 5 is worse than some of the stuff that occurred in the Resurrection 'F' arc.

I really don't think his style is the issue. Again, although he's done good work for Dragon Ball, his work on One Piece is much better, even from an art perspective. You might be able to say it could be too much for Super's production, but I'm not sure how true that is for weekly shows in general.

[Ajay]

For the sake of moving away from arguing about Tate's animation abilities (because dear god, I'm tired of it now), here's some of his pans from the episode. It's always a pleasure seeing him draw.

Spoiler:

I love that goofy Vegeta stance so much. The hair shading on the pan with Vegeta on the ground is also wonderful.

[Skar]

The fight scenes remind me of rag doll physics for some reason. Maybe it's the way they flop around. I still think it's pretty good in its own right though.

[GeeRod]

I know nothing about animation but my humble opinion is that Tate cuts are amazing, even thoug they're off model sometimes.

[MrWalnut4]

I finally got around to watching it and I have to say I was pretty impressed. Really enjoyed Tate's cuts, especially his second. It felt like a lot actually happened during the action scenes and the reaction cut-aways didn't feel unnecessary or drawn out for too long. It was a quality episode that has definitely set the standard for what a Super episode should be. I can only hope this is a good sign for what future episodes will bring.

[ArchedThunder]

I love the head rotation.
http://i.imgur.com/snuN6Oz.gifv

[Draconic]

I love the head rotation.
http://i.imgur.com/snuN6Oz.gifv

I could watch this all day.