Gaffer Tape wrote:And like I said, these are foreign works. Is it really that much to expect your audience to understand that things are different in other parts of the world? Because to me, it's the same mentality that wants to change dumplings to hamburgers or other such nonsense. I mean, it's not exactly a huge leap for a reader to make, is it? "Oh, she's referring to her older brother as 'older brother'? What could that possibly mean?" Personally, I think we're smart enough to figure out, "Hey, I guess they talk like that in Japan. Cool."
But my point is, I don't think using the name works in subtitles regardless of what your background is. Because when I was watching that originally, as a teenager, I was exactly the kind of audience they were afraid of throwing for a loop. I didn't know or understand Japanese. I wasn't familiar with the idea that people referred to their siblings that way. But I did know she was certainly not saying "Yosho" when the subtitle said she did, so it totally threw me. Their attempt to keep from confusing me TOTALLY CONFUSED ME, to the point that I'm still talking about it fifteen years later!
In order for that to not be confusing, I'd have to be familiar with that term, what it means, why it's used, and why translators feel it's important to cover it up. And if I already knew all of that, seeing "Older Brother" in the subtitles wouldn't throw me in the first place! So who is this meant for?
I don't use the term either, but I still know what it means, so just because I don't hear it used in conversation that often doesn't mean it's going to throw me if I hear it or read it, any more than hearing Laura call Charles "Pa" in Little House on the Prairie is going to throw me. Again, in both cases, my mind will just go, "Oh, that's how *they* talk. Cool." I think it would be ridiculous to suggest something like that be dubbed over to "Dad" because native English speakers don't often use it anymore. I don't want everything to be homogenized, and I certainly don't need it to be to understand what's going on. And I didn't need it as a kid either.
I never said that, especially considering my first argument was about a Japanese word NOT being translated into English and instead being replaced with a totally different Japanese name. But I agree. It's often a case-by-case basis. Translation is an art, not a science, etc. But Papa, for example, is not a random English word used in a totally different context than it would normally be. It's a word most people know being used to refer to the immediate patrilineal ancestor. It's about as one-to-one as you can get.
Something being a foreign work doesn't change how a particular type of character would speak in English. This isn't changing food to Americanize things, this is a matter of character voices. A prim and proper character is going to speak differently than a biker punk. For Ayeka? Fair enough, if anyone was going to use Older Brother, I could see someone like her doing it. But someone with a closer, less formal relationship with their brother really wouldn't speak like that in English even if they would speak that way in Japanese, and that changes the audience's experience from Japan to the US (for example if a translation loses the feeling of natural dialogue and such).
A translation needs to be accurate to a certain degree, but not to the cost of sacrificing a character's distinct voice. A teacher is going to speak differently than a student, a princess is going to speak differently than a shoe cobbler, a government official is going to speak differently than a fisherman. Given English has so many varieties to so many different words that many Japanese terms can be translated in a multitude of ways, it's to the benefit of a translation to know when to let a character use a more fancy word, or slang, or a curse, or something akin to that rather than just the technical defined translation in someone's Japanese-to-English dictionary.
In the case of Dragon Ball...it's not a show set in Japan, nor heavily focusing on Japanese culture/history. So especially in series like those, we don't have to 100% reflect traditions that only apply to Japan, especially if they're not important to the grand scheme of the series. Sometimes something will come up, but for the most part, some linguistic freedom is good for the translation, assuming they keep with the spirit of the words, even if it's not letter per letter a direct translation (one could argue whether a song should be directly translated, or modified slightly so it can keep its rhyme scheme and natural word flow at the cost of a degree of accuracy).
I've never once batted an eye in my sub viewing in the decade plus I've watched subs when someone uses a name over "Onee-chan" or "Ototo", or what have you, because I understand the context and it's a perfectly valid way to refer to a sibling. I know many of these words, yet I'm glad to see their name used as an option. So I guess it's for people like me (but I'll take Older Brother/Sister over seeing "Onii-san" or what have you untranslated in the subs, as that just comes off as lazy).
Little House on the Prairie was set on a farm in the 1800s. That works there. If Goku were to say "Pa", I wouldn't bat an eye, given his character (maybe I would if it was dubbed with a hilariously bad southern accent). For going for a country-style way of speaking, that's a valid choice. But that doesn't fit some characters. Same with Papa. Even if that's what a character says in English in the Japanese track, it may not fit a character's personality in the actual English end of things. When I hear Papa, I picture either a young child, or someone acting like they were younger in a teasing way to their father (or perhaps someone immature for their age, there it would be a fitting choice).
I'm definitely not suggesting homogenized language as I just pointed above that words need the freedom to be translated into more variants, but Papa doesn't necessarily fit every character who says that word in a Japanese series. Father, Dad, Daddy, Papa, Pa, Pappy...hell, some people with odd relationships with their parents might call them by their first name (or if they just got a step-parent, or are adopted, and not comfortable with calling them by a parental name yet). I just ask the name chosen fits the character, not just following what Japan does because it's what they chose. To me, if a word has multiple options for translation, choose the one that best fits the character.
Once again, just because two words share the same meaning doesn't mean they share the same context. Shit, crap, poop, doo-doo, and feces all refer to the same thing, but different characters would use different words dependent upon who they are and the context of the situation. Context is very important when it comes to translation, even when it comes to Japan's frequent use of English.
Sorry if this conversation comes off as a bit too bothersome, but translational styles/choices is a subject I have a fair bit of passion about (thanks to both positive and negative experiences over the years).
She/Her 
