Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

[VejituhTheWarriorGuy]

Shida's cuts are off model? Sorry but no they aren't. You guys are just grasping at straws here no offense. You don't seem to get that some people just don't like Tate's animation or art.

[Ajay]

They are off-model. But as we've said many times, off-model doesn't mean bad. It just means that it doesn't adhere to the show's character designs. Off-model gets thrown around as a negative term far too much. It just means something is different. Things can be off-model in both positive and negative ways.

Shida's models are extremely detailed, with unique shading and form. When you watch a show, you know when he's animated something before anything even moves due to the extreme increase in detail. The same can be said of Tate; his drawings become looser, and the shading is very minimalist. It's just two off-model takes on animation in two completely opposite directions.

Episode 16 of Super is entirely off-model, too. With the exception of a few scenes, it's nothing like Yamamuro's character designs. Yet it's considered one of the nicest looking episodes of the show. Similarly, episode 24 is entirely off-model, but it's drawn very poorly on top of bad animation.

I think the point is to just have a deeper criticism than "it's off-model', rather than trying to stifle an opinion. You can absolutely pick at off frames from Tate, just as you can with every other supervisor thanks to the schedule. It just doesn't say a whole lot about his ability to animate (including art quality). For every bad frame, I could link a dozen that are absolutely fine. It just doesn't really speak much to his overall skill.

[A Man named RJ]

Yeah, Shida's stuff is always easily distinguishable during an episode because he goes overboard with the art.

I think one of the many reasons People love Shida is they equate detail to good animation, which isnt always true. Similarly, people equate loose to bad animation, which is to me one of the dumbest things you can say in regards to a medium that's supposed to feel alive. Hell, my favorite action scene from MADHOUSE is this little gem here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQQmQaq ... tml5=False

Tetsuwan Birdy Decode was produced by A-1 Pictures. A

hmm that's odd i could have sworn the credits list i read said MADHOUSE on ANN. perhaps it was a mistake that was later corrected, or I'm going crazy. whoops.

....
well shit, now i need a new fav MADHOUSE fight.
At least they still have Redline.

All of the good animation in the series was from freelance animators

Isnt that all A1 is? I've heard people call it the McDonalds of the animation industry.

Wakabayashi Atsushi's episodes of Yuu Yuu Hakusho were so much fun. Even some of the other episodes had cool animation. The Dark Tournament arc in particularly had a lot of cool background animation.

I used to think (back when i first watched) that these were the episodes where Pierrot didnt have money to make them look stiff. when i revisited the series i saw it again and realized it was some of the most fluid looking animation in the whole show.

Shida's cuts are off model? Sorry but no they aren't.

They are. Nobody but Shida and MAYBE Tomita ever use that many highlights and shades at once,he also has a tendencay to bulk his characters up if they're already bulky or stretch them out if they're thin. these two things are what makes shida stand out so much. Every animated show you see on tv has a color guide in the character studies sheet.

He also plays around with eye and mouth shapes which can make characters temporarily off model. It's not a bad thing, if done correctly. in Shida's case we know that man can draw his ass off. some people prefer the offmodel approach.

[Kuririn Fan]

I dont know shit about animation, but i do know that Tate is awesome. I would rather have slightly off model beautiful animation that on model garbage slide show.

[Wezenheim]

I dont know shit about animation, but i do know that Tate is awesome. I would rather have slightly off model beautiful animation that on model garbage slide show.

Same here, especially if the animation keeps it from looking like Goku vs. Botamo. Now that was an awful fight.

Heck sometimes I wish some of the staff would draw off model more often. This shot of Vegeta that I really enjoyed from episode 38 reminded me that I'm not always a fan of the way Yamamuro shades faces these days.

Spoiler:

I also love Toma's drawings. Not always bad to be off model!

[Cursemark505]

Because Shida actually does beautiful stuff

How ridiculous. Be consistent with your logic.
It's only acceptable to be off-model only if you personally like it?

Tate's ugly art style is noticebale for me and that's the problem. I don't need to pause anything:

There's hardly much wrong w/ the first picture.
The second picture is clearly the result of Super's poor scheduling.
You're cherry picking bad shots. This is nothing more than confirmation bias on your part.
How about posting some good shots drawn by Tate?

Shida's cuts are off model? Sorry but no they aren't. You guys are just grasping at straws here no offense

Of course they are. You seem to think that just because he's a great artist, his art is on-model.
His scenes stick out like a sore thumb in terms of art & animation which is precisely why it's off-model.
Off-model does not equate to bad.

[JulieYBM]

All of the good animation in the series was from freelance animators

Isnt that all A1 is? I've heard people call it the McDonalds of the animation industry.

Yeah, A-1 Pictures has very little in-house staff. It gets by on its contacts mostly.

[FortuneSSJ]

Because Shida actually does beautiful stuff

How ridiculous. Be consistent with your logic.
It's only acceptable to be off-model only if you personally like it?

I don't think Shida goes off-model like you say, that's why.

Tate's ugly art style is noticebale for me and that's the problem. I don't need to pause anything.

There's hardly much wrong w/ the first picture.
The second picture is clearly the result of Super's poor scheduling.
You're cherry picking bad shots. This is nothing more than confirmation bias on your part.
How about posting some good shots drawn by Tate?

I'm not cherry picking. They just stood out that much when I watched the episode.
Here's more of them:

Spoiler:

Welp, here's an entire One Piece clip where i find his work to be horrible: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB-2pNWspRo
The only thing cool in that scene is the writting itself.

Tate is the only one I have problems with it, and I'm giving you examples why I don't like his work nowadays. The reason why I'm not picking good shots is because his ugly bad shots are the ones that bother me. I even said before that his art looks ugly most of them, not always.

We were having a good animation/art streak in Super for the past weeks and Tate almost blew it, for me.
You just have to accept that everything is subjective and not everyone likes his work.

About Shida, the only problem i have with his style are the beams. They look jelly and not powerful enough:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6E_cfu-cD0 5:50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5K3G4DK2Ks 1:29

Love everything else. Shida is da man!

[Draconic]

There is literally nothing wromg with the first two.

[Ajay]

And that One Piece example is one of the coolest cuts in the series. Tate was channeling Hisashi Mori's awesome punch from the 6th One Piece movie. Not quite as good, but a great homage.

I know you dislike Hosoda's art style from that film, so I can see why you wouldn't like Tate. That certainly doesn't make that cut "horrible", though. From a technical standpoint, it's objectively very good.

[Retan]

So does anyone teach these animators how to draw these characters correctly, or do they just look at them and decide?

[Ajay]

Animators are given character sheets to reference from:



These often come with reference facial expressions, too.

Spoiler:

However, these are simply guides. It's ultimately up to the animator how far they want to deviate from the original character designs.

The animation supervisor can correct cuts to their own tastes, and the chief supervisor is free to redraw everything to make each episode flow into one another seamlessly.

This rarely happens, though. The best supervisors prefer to let talented animators do their own thing so as not to stifle creativity -- within reason, of course.

[Wezenheim]

And that One Piece example if one of the coolest cuts in the series. Tate was channeling Hisashi Mori's awesome punch from the 6th One Piece movie. Not quite as good, but a great homage.

I know you dislike Hosoda's art style from that film, so I can see why you wouldn't like Tate. That certainly doesn't make that cut "horrible", though. From a technical standpoint, it's objectively very good.

I personally thought it was great as well (as were the bits prior to the punch). From some of the great facial expressions to the way the "wind" gently affected the characters' hair and clothing, I felt there was a ton of emotion there. The punch and the face Luffy had leading up to it were pretty powerful, I thought. I didn't catch anything wrong with the scene the first time I watched it and even now there are maybe 2 frames at best that I would even have any sort of issue with, but I actually had to look for them and found them almost entirely inconsequential compared to everything else that worked in that scene. I guess I can see why someone wouldn't like it, but I thought it was great. To each their own I suppose!

[Retan]

Animators are given character sheets to reference from:



These often come with reference facial expressions, too.

Spoiler:

However, these are simply guides. It's ultimately up to the animator how far they want to deviate from the original character designs.

The animation supervisor can correct cuts to their own tastes, and the chief supervisor is free to redraw everything to make each episode flow into one another seamlessly.

This rarely happens, though. The best supervisors prefer to let talented animators do their own thing so as not to stifle creativity -- within reason, of course.

Is the top one Yamamotos design?

[Ajay]

Both are Tadoyoshi Yamamuro's, yeah.
(Yamamoto was the fired composer )

[Lord Beerus]

Animators are given character sheets to reference from:



These often come with reference facial expressions, too.

Spoiler:

However, these are simply guides. It's ultimately up to the animator how far they want to deviate from the original character designs.

The animation supervisor can correct cuts to their own tastes, and the chief supervisor is free to redraw everything to make each episode flow into one another seamlessly.

This rarely happens, though. The best supervisors prefer to let talented animators do their own thing so as not to stifle creativity -- within reason, of course.

Is the top one Yamamotos design?

Yamamoto has returned?

[Sodhi]

Is the top one Yamamotos design?
Yamamoto has returned?

As ajay said yamamoto was fired.

[Lord Beerus]

Is the top one Yamamotos design?
Yamamoto has returned?

As ajay said yamamoto was fired.

I know. I was just fooling around.

[A Man named RJ]

Welp, here's an entire One Piece clip where i find his work to be horrible: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB-2pNWspRo
The only thing cool in that scene is the writting itself.

How is that clip in any way horrible? It does something that i wish Toei would do more often from the show, Break the constantly strict adherence to manga choreography, and by that, I mean, Shonen anime like One Piece tend to try to animate an attack, and end with a still frame to try and emulate the attack from the manga.

Spoiler:

The issue is the medium is completely different, So in the Manga when we see St Charlos get punched, we dont see the punch rather the reaction to the punch happening. IF it were a lesser animator or director in charge they would have redrawn the manga panel and added a "BLOOSH" Sound effect without showing the punch connect, here we get some awesome animation and brushstrokes so the point is the exact same but the choreography is just a tad different.

FMAB did this really well, and i only really noticed once i bought the whole series (2 halfs) on bluray.

I'm not really sure how anybody could call this horrible unless they were trying to hate his work.

Back to the point though, I've never considered tate's work to be bad. That shot of goku being sent back in super was a really dynamic shot that people tried to "square" up in the mouth area
(pic on left)

Spoiler:

and to that i say, why? when we have shots like this in the old show

Spoiler:

All this aside though I'm really looking forward to the next episode.

[MrWalnut4]

Back to the point though, I've never considered tate's work to be bad. That shot of goku being sent back in super was a really dynamic shot that people tried to "square" up in the mouth area
(pic on left)

Spoiler:

and to that i say, why? when we have shots like this in the old show

Spoiler:

All this aside though I'm really looking forward to the next episode.

To be fair, two of those shots are from possibly one of the worst drawn episodes in the series in my opinion. It wasn't a common way of drawing mouths and the second two look just as out of place in the Z shots as the Super shot does.

I think we can mostly agree that Tate's fluidity of motion is excellent, but I personally dislike his art style. I'm not sure if I can describe it perfectly, but his art seems too round and "soft" I suppose. It might be due to Yammaruro's character designs or a lack of time to add detail to keys, but it does bother me a little. I prefer the more angular designs of late Z to Tate's current style. It might also be that I find his art to be a lot more simple when in motion compared to someone like Shida who puts an incredible amount of detail into his art. It seems like Tate sticks to minimal line-art with limited shading in moving scenes which may be a product of time management but nonetheless is a little off-putting to me. Overall I like Tate and think he is an excellent part of the series, but I don't think he is as incredible as he is hyped up to be (at least in Super, I'm not familiar with his work outside of Super).