Anyone consider or want GT as canon?

[Danfun64]

You know?

Universally?

Clever
Maybe GT isn't a separate universe, but it probably *is* a different timeline.

What "clever"? And I am not talking about a seperate universe. It is just not a fact that it is not universally considered non-canonical, so saying someone knows that is a wrong claim.

I thought you were making a pun or joke or...something.

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

Well, There's a huge difference between "universally" and "vastly." My take on it is that both of them are overstatements. I would say GT is hated by some members of the community. But we can always make it interesting. You guys want Data? Let's make a poll here on the forum and see how it goes. What can possibly go wrong?

Again, keep in mind my avatar has Goku SSJ 5 fighting Cooler so you know I am serious.

On the internet the trolls/haters are always the loudest. they don't represent the fanbase, look at the GT videos, so many people on all of them bash it, a lot are the same profiles going to videos to troll. Who knows if they hate GT or just like to annoy fans. It's the same with the star wars prequels, sure a few hundred out of several videos are bashing the prequels and GT....but then the other 99% of them aren't. This shows the haters are in the minority. Otherwise people wouldn't ask for a GT dragonbox after we've already had the series released in America 3x already. People BEG for ssj4 and GT characters in games, most people love GT, it's just the bandwagon trolls/thumbs up whores who keep hating on it, that guy kullulin fan keeps trolling here hating on it when he can just not go to GT threads. He probably doesn't even hate GT. Just ignore it, heck the mods don't even care about it. They say don't report trolling and people harassing threads because they don't care.

My point is ignore the trolls and don't think they're the majority just because you keep seeing haters. Same with Super sure there's haters of it but that's not the majority. Compare the # of hate messages to the fans commenting and it's a minority for both. And if you ignore the trolls you'll be much happier.

[successoroffate]

Well, There's a huge difference between "universally" and "vastly." My take on it is that both of them are overstatements. I would say GT is hated by some members of the community. But we can always make it interesting. You guys want Data? Let's make a poll here on the forum and see how it goes. What can possibly go wrong?

Again, keep in mind my avatar has Goku SSJ 5 fighting Cooler so you know I am serious.

On the internet the trolls/haters are always the loudest. they don't represent the fanbase, look at the GT videos, so many people on all of them bash it, a lot are the same profiles going to videos to troll. Who knows if they hate GT or just like to annoy fans. It's the same with the star wars prequels, sure a few hundred out of several videos are bashing the prequels and GT....but then the other 99% of them aren't. This shows the haters are in the minority. Otherwise people wouldn't ask for a GT dragonbox after we've already had the series released in America 3x already. People BEG for ssj4 and GT characters in games, most people love GT, it's just the bandwagon trolls/thumbs up whores who keep hating on it, that guy kullulin fan keeps trolling here hating on it when he can just not go to GT threads. He probably doesn't even hate GT. Just ignore it, heck the mods don't even care about it. They say don't report trolling and people harassing threads because they don't care.

My point is ignore the trolls and don't think they're the majority just because you keep seeing haters. Same with Super sure there's haters of it but that's not the majority. Compare the # of hate messages to the fans commenting and it's a minority for both. And if you ignore the trolls you'll be much happier.

If you ask me, I think the proportion would be something like this:
60% of the global fan base dislikes GT
40% Likes GT

60% doesn't sound like universally nor vast if that was the case. Substantial Hate? Probably not.

[BoosterZabi]

how about Goku losing to a common ray gun? That makes him below a clone trooper in star wars who's armor can at least survive that....
piccolo loses to chop sticks which would break on me so regular human>>>>>>>piccolo in the BOG movie.

SSJ4 Goku also had a problem picking up a large chunk of concrete and had to power up in order to lift the street back into position. This includes struggling as kid goku and transforming into SSJ4 to keep a building from tilting over.

You also forget that letting your guard down is a common thing in Dragonball whether it's filler or canon from the manga. Yajirobe critically injured Vegeta with his katana just because Vegeta wasn't aware of it and Krillin could have easily killed Vegeta before he escaped with it. Prior to the Cell Games, Krillin tossed a small rock at Goku's face while he was resting and Goku cried out in pain over it. Yes, a small little rock. Also someone as weak as Krillin was able to cut off 2nd Form Freeza's tail who was absurdly more powerful then Krillin was.

And regards to the chop sticks. Well consider that a person who utilizes ki can transmit it to weapon they're holding. Trunks did exactly this when he killed Freeza. King Cold made the fatal mistake to assume that the sword is what made Trunks specialy and not his own power and it costed him his life. So no, it's not far fetched that Beerus used chop sticks to hit Piccolo in his pressure points.

Nothing can stop GT from being canon, it's totally possible.

Really isn't at this point. Pilaf's gang was turned into children and Supreme Kai defused with Kabito which both contradict GT's storylines, I'm not entirely sure whether these actions were deliberate from the creators as a "Hey look, we're making a point that GT doesn't happen" or not, but the likelihood of all these events reversing is of pure wishful thinking.

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

how about Goku losing to a common ray gun? That makes him below a clone trooper in star wars who's armor can at least survive that....
piccolo loses to chop sticks which would break on me so regular human>>>>>>>piccolo in the BOG movie.

SSJ4 Goku also had a problem picking up a large chunk of concrete and had to power up in order to lift the street back into position. This includes struggling as kid goku and transforming into SSJ4 to keep a building from tilting over.

You also forget that letting your guard down is a common thing in Dragonball whether it's filler or canon from the manga. Yajirobe critically injured Vegeta with his katana just because Vegeta wasn't aware of it and Krillin could have easily killed Vegeta before he escaped with it. Prior to the Cell Games, Krillin tossed a small rock at Goku's face while he was resting and Goku cried out in pain over it. Yes, a small little rock. Also someone as weak as Krillin was able to cut off 2nd Form Freeza's tail who was absurdly more powerful then Krillin was.

And regards to the chop sticks. Well consider that a person who utilizes ki can transmit it to weapon they're holding. Trunks did exactly this when he killed Freeza. King Cold made the fatal mistake to assume that the sword is what made Trunks specialy and not his own power and it costed him his life. So no, it's not far fetched that Beerus used chop sticks to hit Piccolo in his pressure points.

Nothing can stop GT from being canon, it's totally possible.

Really isn't at this point. Pilaf's gang was turned into children and Supreme Kai defused with Kabito which both contradict GT's storylines, I'm not entirely sure whether these actions were deliberate from the creators as a "Hey look, we're making a point that GT doesn't happen" or not, but the likelihood of all these events reversing is of pure wishful thinking.

The chop sticks where the only things not sourrorunded by aura, also SSj1 cell games goku was on guard for the elephant stampeed but still was hurt. SSJ blue goku was taken out by the equivalent of a stoormtrooper. They're all just plot holes ,you cant use that GT plot hole to say ssj4 is weak, same with god goku, yeah he fell to a laser, but thats a plot hole. otherwise a stormtrooper can shoot beerus when he's asleep and kill him. even not powered up their bodies would be too strong even if it was a ki blast from perfect cell himself, let alone a frieza soldier.

welcome to dragonball, plot holes and bad writing galore! gt may not become canon to super, which is POSSIBLE, but not likely but it IS canon to ball and Z, which are the main and most popular canon to dragonball fans. more people watched dbz then read it. the OG canon is the manga, weather super is meant to be canon to the manga or kai is un known, it fits more with kai but who knows. but super is non canon AND canon, just as GT is canon and non canon at the same time. canon=part of the maker's continuity. it doesn't mean whatever fits in the manga's continuity, that's specifically the manga's canon.

[Hellspawn28]

I don't think Super is going to link with GT. The writers want to focus on what's current with the series than trying to link up with a show that has most of their target audience probably didn't see. GT was 20 years ago, the series move on with it. Enjoy on what we have now since Super is getting better since the Champa saga in my opinion.

[Kuririn Fan]

GT being canon to Dragon Ball / Z is flawed because Beerus stuff is continuation of the manga and he was introduced in Dragon Ball Z Movie. GT is its own little thing, just a side-story, a what-if, just like the pre-BoG movies.

[z_cherub]

how about Goku losing to a common ray gun? That makes him below a clone trooper in star wars who's armor can at least survive that....
piccolo loses to chop sticks which would break on me so regular human>>>>>>>piccolo in the BOG movie.

SSJ4 Goku also had a problem picking up a large chunk of concrete and had to power up in order to lift the street back into position. This includes struggling as kid goku and transforming into SSJ4 to keep a building from tilting over.

You also forget that letting your guard down is a common thing in Dragonball whether it's filler or canon from the manga. Yajirobe critically injured Vegeta with his katana just because Vegeta wasn't aware of it and Krillin could have easily killed Vegeta before he escaped with it. Prior to the Cell Games, Krillin tossed a small rock at Goku's face while he was resting and Goku cried out in pain over it. Yes, a small little rock. Also someone as weak as Krillin was able to cut off 2nd Form Freeza's tail who was absurdly more powerful then Krillin was.

And regards to the chop sticks. Well consider that a person who utilizes ki can transmit it to weapon they're holding. Trunks did exactly this when he killed Freeza. King Cold made the fatal mistake to assume that the sword is what made Trunks specialy and not his own power and it costed him his life. So no, it's not far fetched that Beerus used chop sticks to hit Piccolo in his pressure points.

Nothing can stop GT from being canon, it's totally possible.

Really isn't at this point. Pilaf's gang was turned into children and Supreme Kai defused with Kabito which both contradict GT's storylines, I'm not entirely sure whether these actions were deliberate from the creators as a "Hey look, we're making a point that GT doesn't happen" or not, but the likelihood of all these events reversing is of pure wishful thinking.

The chop sticks where the only things not sourrorunded by aura, also SSj1 cell games goku was on guard for the elephant stampeed but still was hurt. SSJ blue goku was taken out by the equivalent of a stoormtrooper. They're all just plot holes ,you cant use that GT plot hole to say ssj4 is weak, same with god goku, yeah he fell to a laser, but thats a plot hole. otherwise a stormtrooper can shoot beerus when he's asleep and kill him. even not powered up their bodies would be too strong even if it was a ki blast from perfect cell himself, let alone a frieza soldier.

welcome to dragonball, plot holes and bad writing galore! gt may not become canon to super, which is POSSIBLE, but not likely but it IS canon to ball and Z, which are the main and most popular canon to dragonball fans. more people watched dbz then read it. the OG canon is the manga, weather super is meant to be canon to the manga or kai is un known, it fits more with kai but who knows. but super is non canon AND canon, just as GT is canon and non canon at the same time. canon=part of the maker's continuity. it doesn't mean whatever fits in the manga's continuity, that's specifically the manga's canon.

You don't understand plot holes.

A plot hole would be AT stating somewhere in the story that a character's body is so highly trained that a bullet or ray gun could never harm them even if caught off guard, then having that very thing happen.

While this is close since we've seen Goku get shot while "off guard" by a gun plenty before, the ray gun thing is just poor writing (IMO) and not truly a plot hole.

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

If Goku is so strong that a blast from perfect cell wouldn't hurt him, why would bullets? Being off guard doesn't change how strong your body is. It just changes if you're able to dodge it. You don't understand what a plot hole is, I understand fine XD

[Nejishiki]

The body has a limit to its defense. The amount of ki you use in battle is more important and is the basis of everyone's training once it's formally explained. With that said, there are moments when characters lower their ki defense or even disable it as was Vegeta's case that allows them to be vulnerable to a degree.

[z_cherub]

If Goku is so strong that a blast from perfect cell wouldn't hurt him, why would bullets?

It has a lot to do with the fact that the author f*cking said so.

You can't distinguish between things that you don't believe make sense, and a true plot hole.

Also, while Goku has been shown to take bullets while "off-guard" since DB (mostly for comedic effect), he's never truly been shot by a "ray gun" while off guard, so we don't really know what effect that would have outside of the Fukkatsu no F scenario. Who are we to say that's unreasonable since we don't know how much more punch a ray gun packs as opposed to a regular gun?

It wasn't my favorite story choice either, but it's far from a plot hole.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

If Goku is so strong that a blast from perfect cell wouldn't hurt him, why would bullets? Being off guard doesn't change how strong your body is. It just changes if you're able to dodge it.

Try taking a punch when you know that it's coming, and then try taking a punch by surprise.

[ABED]

If Goku is so strong that a blast from perfect cell wouldn't hurt him, why would bullets? Being off guard doesn't change how strong your body is. It just changes if you're able to dodge it. You don't understand what a plot hole is, I understand fine XD

I agree that having the ray gun injure him was dumb but being off guard can cause more damage. Houdini died because he wasn't expecting to be punched in the abdomen.

[BoosterZabi]

how about Goku losing to a common ray gun? That makes him below a clone trooper in star wars who's armor can at least survive that....
piccolo loses to chop sticks which would break on me so regular human>>>>>>>piccolo in the BOG movie.

SSJ4 Goku also had a problem picking up a large chunk of concrete and had to power up in order to lift the street back into position. This includes struggling as kid goku and transforming into SSJ4 to keep a building from tilting over.

You also forget that letting your guard down is a common thing in Dragonball whether it's filler or canon from the manga. Yajirobe critically injured Vegeta with his katana just because Vegeta wasn't aware of it and Krillin could have easily killed Vegeta before he escaped with it. Prior to the Cell Games, Krillin tossed a small rock at Goku's face while he was resting and Goku cried out in pain over it. Yes, a small little rock. Also someone as weak as Krillin was able to cut off 2nd Form Freeza's tail who was absurdly more powerful then Krillin was.

And regards to the chop sticks. Well consider that a person who utilizes ki can transmit it to weapon they're holding. Trunks did exactly this when he killed Freeza. King Cold made the fatal mistake to assume that the sword is what made Trunks specialy and not his own power and it costed him his life. So no, it's not far fetched that Beerus used chop sticks to hit Piccolo in his pressure points.

Nothing can stop GT from being canon, it's totally possible.

Really isn't at this point. Pilaf's gang was turned into children and Supreme Kai defused with Kabito which both contradict GT's storylines, I'm not entirely sure whether these actions were deliberate from the creators as a "Hey look, we're making a point that GT doesn't happen" or not, but the likelihood of all these events reversing is of pure wishful thinking.

The chop sticks where the only things not sourrorunded by aura, also SSj1 cell games goku was on guard for the elephant stampeed but still was hurt. SSJ blue goku was taken out by the equivalent of a stoormtrooper. They're all just plot holes ,you cant use that GT plot hole to say ssj4 is weak, same with god goku, yeah he fell to a laser, but thats a plot hole. otherwise a stormtrooper can shoot beerus when he's asleep and kill him. even not powered up their bodies would be too strong even if it was a ki blast from perfect cell himself, let alone a frieza soldier.

welcome to dragonball, plot holes and bad writing galore! gt may not become canon to super, which is POSSIBLE, but not likely but it IS canon to ball and Z, which are the main and most popular canon to dragonball fans. more people watched dbz then read it. the OG canon is the manga, weather super is meant to be canon to the manga or kai is un known, it fits more with kai but who knows. but super is non canon AND canon, just as GT is canon and non canon at the same time. canon=part of the maker's continuity. it doesn't mean whatever fits in the manga's continuity, that's specifically the manga's canon.

They don't need aura to be shown on the chop sticks. A highly advanced laser from a space empire that can regenerate and recreate tissue from a mess of dismembered chunks of Freeza's body is on bar with a slapstick scene involving elephants? Beerus is not a saiyan nor is he a human. He could be much like Freeza's race where they can be hacked up into pieces and still survive somehow. I don't want to put too much of a defensive position towards the laser shot thing, since it was indeed sloppy writing to a certain degree but It's not too unbelievable. Had they put some indirect hints of this 'plan B' prior to Freeza coming to Earth it would have been a better scene. Maybe the ring could have had some type of plot device where it's a contained of raw unmitigated power from Freeza stored inside the ring. That would have been more compelling. I think the fanbase for DB has created wild assumptions of what Goku can and cannot do. He's not invulnerable and can be killed. He still needs to eat, breath, and sleep. And space viruses or space lasers aren't any exception to this.

And no, it's not possible. Super is the direct followup of the DB manga with the story and characters being entirely made by Toriyama. It's also being based on the DBS manga. GT is more akin to that of a side story based more so on the filler content in DBZ then anything else. I forgot to also mention that Hell in the Dragonball universe has never been visualized officially by Toryiama until RoF. Prior to that, it was entirely filler made by Toei. Freeza in RoF/DBS is shown to have had his entire mecha body intact while suffering at the lowest forms of Hell until he was revived. After he's killed, he's once again sent back. He never met Cell nor did he ever watch the fight against Kid Buu and Goku. Toei's version of Hell is an important part of GT's Super Android 17's arc. This is another thing that is blown out of the water DBS.

You're right, it does fit more with Kai. Kai is DBZ without the filler (or what they could edit out from the original footage) or in other words is the closet thing to the manga you can get. It only aired a couple years back as well and DBS picks up right off the bat where Kai's Buu Saga ended in Japan. Infact, I think it was like a month after Kai ended that DBS begun just last year.

And face it, GT is not beloved by many people, especially in Japan. You have to remember, Dragonball was Toei's bread and butter during the early 90's being so extremely popular. GT bombed in ratings and had to eventually be cancelled hence why the last two sagas were quickly rushed out with a conclusion.

[BoosterZabi]

If Goku is so strong that a blast from perfect cell wouldn't hurt him, why would bullets? Being off guard doesn't change how strong your body is. It just changes if you're able to dodge it. You don't understand what a plot hole is, I understand fine XD

I agree that having the ray gun injure him was dumb but being off guard can cause more damage. Houdini died because he wasn't expecting to be punched in the abdomen.

Didn't Vegeta fully acknowledge that had Nappa not guarded against Tien's tri beam at the very last second that it could have killed him? Getting caught off guard is like a HUUUUUGE thing in DragonBall no matter how powerful the individual is. Goku has had a big problem with this ever since the beginning. He allowed himself to relax when Piccolo was badly injured and pummeled in the ground which allowed Piccolo to impale him with a blast of ki with his mouth.

[ABED]

I think it's a matter of degree. Tenshinhan was comparatively FAR closer in strength to Nappa than that beam was to Goku even in his base form.

[Gaffer Tape]

Didn't Vegeta fully acknowledge that had Nappa not guarded against Tien's tri beam at the very last second that it could have killed him? Getting caught off guard is like a HUUUUUGE thing in DragonBall no matter how powerful the individual is. Goku has had a big problem with this ever since the beginning. He allowed himself to relax when Piccolo was badly injured and pummeled in the ground which allowed Piccolo to impale him with a blast of ki with his mouth.

While I agree with the concept, no, Vegeta never says that. It's a dub line. The original script doesn't have him say anything remotely similar.

[BoosterZabi]

I think it's a matter of degree. Tenshinhan was comparatively FAR closer in strength to Nappa than that beam was to Goku even in his base form.

Well Toryiama should have placed some type of backstory into. It can be very believable and Freeza could have had direct responsibility for creating the ring based off his understanding of Ki and what not. Maybe fusing Freeza's ki with the empire's most lethal laser which would have been too fast for Goku to properly react to much akin to Freeza's death beam.

While I agree with the concept, no, Vegeta never says that. It's a dub line. The original script doesn't have him say anything remotely similar.

Thanks for clearing that up. It's been ages since I read the manga.

[TheBritWriter]

Honestly I thought U6 in super (when saying the earth in their universe was destroyed) would be of Gt but destroyed by Vados (who tried to tell Champa the earth had some promising food but he wasn't listening and he had a schedule but felt vados should do it for him)

There was space for GT to fit, as an alternative universe or even as a hinted future form for Goku, but it's clear that GT isn't recognized as part of it, and power scaling is just so off that trying to fit GT in now would cause writers more headaches. It exists as a sidestory and there's no harm in it, majority of DBZ movies are fillers anyway, fans like the fillers as much as the "canon" (Broly for example)

I think there was time for GT to be canon with Super's timeline but I can't see that happening, not with power scaling a multiversal dragon god etc.

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

I think it's a matter of degree. Tenshinhan was comparatively FAR closer in strength to Nappa than that beam was to Goku even in his base form.

Exactly. Tien's close to Nappa and his attack is no average attack, it even managed to work on semi P cell.

It was so strong nappa had to block it to take away damage. The beam thing, yeah things can hurt more if you don't expect it like hitting a table with your foot if you don't expect it, and you cant block the impact, and you wont dodge....but that doesn't make it a insta kill thing. What's next? A pistol? neither one, even if it wasa death beam from cell himself would od anything to goku at that point.