So, where do you all stand on the Boo arc?
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Re: So, where do you all stand on the Boo arc?
While messy in the storytelling department it surely is funny mess. The majin Bu arc is Toriyama remembering how to make a ridiculous story (@kunzait_83 nails it)
Dragon Ball was always a kid series and fans should stop being in denial.
Re: So, where do you all stand on the Boo arc?
To be honest, I thought the Otherworld Tournament filler arc was better than the rest of the Boo arc. Both were far sillier than the Cell arc, but for some reason the Otherworld Tournament just clicked better for some reason.
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Re: So, where do you all stand on the Boo arc?
Overall: I think it was the perfect marriage between the mystical beginnings of the series and the epic fights of the latter portion. It mixed it all and found a great tone. The final battle was actually played really well and hit all the right notes and made it bigger than the heroes by having it take Earth's population to beat Buu.
Any bad was just the natural extension of the series. Super Saiyan was already diluted once they had every active Saiyan transform and then they started creating new forms of it. SSJ3 was just the natural extension.
I think the only real failure was that Gohan didn't get closure. Goku and Vegeta got an arc. Gohan didn't.
Any bad was just the natural extension of the series. Super Saiyan was already diluted once they had every active Saiyan transform and then they started creating new forms of it. SSJ3 was just the natural extension.
I think the only real failure was that Gohan didn't get closure. Goku and Vegeta got an arc. Gohan didn't.
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Re: So, where do you all stand on the Boo arc?
I liked the Buu arc because it was unpredictable and all the humans had a voice on how things affected them, like Bulma to herself getting upset that Vegeta was turning evil. Or Gohan regretting his cockiness and felt ashamed that he was the weakest of the group and blamed himself for Piccolo and Krillin turned into stone, or Vegeta being so upset with his Pride that he would pretend to hate his family just to embrace being evil if it made him stronger than Goku. I got a lot of internal conflict out of it. It wasn't just all about what Saiyan got what power up, and who's rage triggered what new form, or any of these cliches that just forced its way through the Cell Arc.
The Buu arc got its tone-balance where the plot of the arc itself was not based on something silly or trivial to represent the whole arc, it just had passive silly concepts that were often underestimated into what lead to the darker themes that ended up getting really bad for them. That was the tension the series has abandoned I feel. It also didn't have this over dependency on Goku the newer arcs have nor did it demand him nor was it just centered around how all-amazing the Saiyan race is, like it is now. Every character got a chance to respond to the situation rather than just cheer and helped the situation as best they could even if they didn't fight the villain directly and thats something I think the series and the audience misses as a value for the humans to uphold. Reliability and tenacity. Not Saiyan worship. They all had to think on their feet, react and plan in desperation, even if their actions may not have been well though out. A lot of their actions eventually had a consequence in some way or another and they needed to think about them, even if they got too cocky on their options I liked it because it shows they were a bit biased. Its better for the plot, rather than their solutions to everything, just being that OP transformation, casual wish-back (X), or new ability pulled out of no where just to lopsidedly tidying up everything like what the newer stuff does.
The Buu arc got its tone-balance where the plot of the arc itself was not based on something silly or trivial to represent the whole arc, it just had passive silly concepts that were often underestimated into what lead to the darker themes that ended up getting really bad for them. That was the tension the series has abandoned I feel. It also didn't have this over dependency on Goku the newer arcs have nor did it demand him nor was it just centered around how all-amazing the Saiyan race is, like it is now. Every character got a chance to respond to the situation rather than just cheer and helped the situation as best they could even if they didn't fight the villain directly and thats something I think the series and the audience misses as a value for the humans to uphold. Reliability and tenacity. Not Saiyan worship. They all had to think on their feet, react and plan in desperation, even if their actions may not have been well though out. A lot of their actions eventually had a consequence in some way or another and they needed to think about them, even if they got too cocky on their options I liked it because it shows they were a bit biased. Its better for the plot, rather than their solutions to everything, just being that OP transformation, casual wish-back (X), or new ability pulled out of no where just to lopsidedly tidying up everything like what the newer stuff does.
Last edited by SingleFringe&Sparks on Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Zephyr wrote:The fandom's collective fetishizing of "moments" is also ridiculous to me. No, not everyone needs a fucking "shine" moment. If that's all you want, then all you want is fanservice, rather than an actual coherent story. And of course those aren't mutually exclusive; you could have a coherent story with "shine" moments! But if a story is perfectly coherent (and I'm really not seeing any compelling arguments that this one is anything but, despite constantly recurring, really poorly reasoned, attempts to argue otherwise), and you're bemoaning the lack of "shine" moments as a reason for the story's poor quality, then you're letting your thirst for "shine" moments obfuscate your ability to detect basic storytelling when it's right in front of you.
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Re: So, where do you all stand on the Boo arc?
Its my favorite arc...
Even haters cant deny that the stuff from beginning to Vegetas sacrifice is awesome...
I appreaciate the return to the gags, and unpredictable final fight (from Gotenks to Genki Dama kill)...
Even haters cant deny that the stuff from beginning to Vegetas sacrifice is awesome...
I appreaciate the return to the gags, and unpredictable final fight (from Gotenks to Genki Dama kill)...
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Re: So, where do you all stand on the Boo arc?
He became strongest unfused character and got a job he always wanted. He also got married and got a daughter. What more do you want?lancerman wrote: I think the only real failure was that Gohan didn't get closure. Goku and Vegeta got an arc. Gohan didn't.
Re: So, where do you all stand on the Boo arc?
Best arc in the series.
Just a wonderful combination of Toriyama in burn-out mode finding ways to amuse himself, creating a combination of completely off-the-wall humor along with one of the more dire plots in the series. It's full of tonal whiplash, whimsy, and genuine endgame movement for many of the characters' arcs, creating a sense that the shit is hitting the fan faster than the cast can keep up with.
Love it to death. I think it's mostly an incredible accident, but so is much of the series.
"Weird ending to a weird series" indeed.
Just a wonderful combination of Toriyama in burn-out mode finding ways to amuse himself, creating a combination of completely off-the-wall humor along with one of the more dire plots in the series. It's full of tonal whiplash, whimsy, and genuine endgame movement for many of the characters' arcs, creating a sense that the shit is hitting the fan faster than the cast can keep up with.
Love it to death. I think it's mostly an incredible accident, but so is much of the series.
"Weird ending to a weird series" indeed.
Re: So, where do you all stand on the Boo arc?
I like it because it pretty much wraps up all the major character arcs and does great world building with the other Kai's, Buu, and how the universe essentially works. I also think the filler with the Otherworld tournament at the beginning and all the Saiyaman episodes improved the arc tremendously too.
Re: So, where do you all stand on the Boo arc?
I liked all the homages it gave to past events such as :
The tournaments were homages to the ones in DB.
Goten & Trunks fighting was an homage to Goku & Krillin's fight.
Goku & Vegeta's rematch was an homage to their fight in the Saiyan arc.
Piccolo training Goten & Trunks a bit was an homage to him training Gohan.
Everyone helping each other to take down Buu was an homage to everyone trying to take down Vegeta back in the Saiyan arc.
Goku going Ssj3 for the 1st time was just as epic as him going Ssj1 on Namek.
It takes the comedy of DB and mixes it up with Z's serious tone and epic fights.
Some fans say it should've ended after the Saiyan arc, some say Namek & some say the androids.
The Saiyan arc was a continuation of the Goku arc. (DB's 1st 29 episodes)
The Namek arc was a continuation to the Piccolo arcs.
The Android arc was a continuation to the RRA arc.
But non of them feel like a conclusion to the overall story like the Buu arc, it took everything that made what came before it great and added it's own things to make one great finale for the original story.
We got one of the greatest beat downs in the franchise. (his 1st fight with Super Buu)
He finally wore the same Gi as his father which was another great homage the arc had.
The tournaments were homages to the ones in DB.
Goten & Trunks fighting was an homage to Goku & Krillin's fight.
Goku & Vegeta's rematch was an homage to their fight in the Saiyan arc.
Piccolo training Goten & Trunks a bit was an homage to him training Gohan.
Everyone helping each other to take down Buu was an homage to everyone trying to take down Vegeta back in the Saiyan arc.
Goku going Ssj3 for the 1st time was just as epic as him going Ssj1 on Namek.
It takes the comedy of DB and mixes it up with Z's serious tone and epic fights.
Some fans say it should've ended after the Saiyan arc, some say Namek & some say the androids.
The Saiyan arc was a continuation of the Goku arc. (DB's 1st 29 episodes)
The Namek arc was a continuation to the Piccolo arcs.
The Android arc was a continuation to the RRA arc.
But non of them feel like a conclusion to the overall story like the Buu arc, it took everything that made what came before it great and added it's own things to make one great finale for the original story.
We got to see his full potential which was being teased ever since he was introduced.Kuririn Fan wrote:He became strongest unfused character and got a job he always wanted. He also got married and got a daughter. What more do you want?
We got one of the greatest beat downs in the franchise. (his 1st fight with Super Buu)
He finally wore the same Gi as his father which was another great homage the arc had.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.
Re: So, where do you all stand on the Boo arc?
Re-posted the above by accident.
Last edited by sintzu on Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.
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Re: So, where do you all stand on the Boo arc?
Well, the Great Saiyaman portion is my absolute favourite part of the entire series. I actually can't believe it exists. It's so different to everything that came before it, but it also adds a lot of worldbuilding and character growth you wouldn't have ever seen otherwise. It also did the job of giving Gohan an actual personality.
Really, everything up until Vegeta's sacrifice are some of my favourite parts of the series. They're interesting, they have great character development, and they introduce a whole bunch of interesting characters. After that moment, I think my biggest issue with the arc is a lack of emotion. No one is emotionally invested in what's going on. Goten and Trunks lose any sense of understanding the moment they fuse, Gohan is so separated from the main plot both physically and emotionally he might as well have been dead, and both Goku and Vegeta act like they don't realise the gravity of the situations they caused.
The other problem is, out of all the elements it introduced, there aren't many I enjoy. Fusion can erase the uniqueness of individual characters and undermines the idea of teamwork. What's the point in working together when all you need to do is fuse and it'll be better than fighting as a team, every single time? Super Saiyan 3 still looks ridiculous (in my opinion) and came completely out of nowhere, actually harming some of the character development given to Goku and Vegeta during their rematch. And Ultimate Gohan...the less said about that, the better. How could Toriyama drop the ball on someone's character arc so badly?
But, at the very least, it doesn't try to act like it's the greatest thing in the world. It never overreaches itself, so it never falls flat on its face.
Really, everything up until Vegeta's sacrifice are some of my favourite parts of the series. They're interesting, they have great character development, and they introduce a whole bunch of interesting characters. After that moment, I think my biggest issue with the arc is a lack of emotion. No one is emotionally invested in what's going on. Goten and Trunks lose any sense of understanding the moment they fuse, Gohan is so separated from the main plot both physically and emotionally he might as well have been dead, and both Goku and Vegeta act like they don't realise the gravity of the situations they caused.
The other problem is, out of all the elements it introduced, there aren't many I enjoy. Fusion can erase the uniqueness of individual characters and undermines the idea of teamwork. What's the point in working together when all you need to do is fuse and it'll be better than fighting as a team, every single time? Super Saiyan 3 still looks ridiculous (in my opinion) and came completely out of nowhere, actually harming some of the character development given to Goku and Vegeta during their rematch. And Ultimate Gohan...the less said about that, the better. How could Toriyama drop the ball on someone's character arc so badly?
But, at the very least, it doesn't try to act like it's the greatest thing in the world. It never overreaches itself, so it never falls flat on its face.
I could have gotten into anything...and yet I chose the story aimed at young Japanese boys about martial arts, and later about super-powerful aliens punching each other really hard.
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Re: So, where do you all stand on the Boo arc?
It is probably the best ending that DB manga could've got.
Goku comes back to life again, the feel of the heroes being the strongest in the universe, the development of gotenks , Piccolo being relevant again, Gohan's potentially finally revealed, Vegeta's heart-change, a villain which even the greatest of gods fear, the strengths of friends becomes enemy (Absorption) , Goku is the greatest fighter, use of dragon balls, character development of Mr Satan, earth finally being destroyed.
Goku comes back to life again, the feel of the heroes being the strongest in the universe, the development of gotenks , Piccolo being relevant again, Gohan's potentially finally revealed, Vegeta's heart-change, a villain which even the greatest of gods fear, the strengths of friends becomes enemy (Absorption) , Goku is the greatest fighter, use of dragon balls, character development of Mr Satan, earth finally being destroyed.
Re: So, where do you all stand on the Boo arc?
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Re: So, where do you all stand on the Boo arc?
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Re: So, where do you all stand on the Boo arc?
Buu himself was also a great final villain for the series. Whereas Freeza was a conqueror and Cell was intelligent, Buu was a maniac who was willing to exterminate all life (especially in his Kid Buu form), and I liked all the changes he went through.
Plus he's a shape shifter! People often overlook this, but they could do so many unique things with Buu in a fight that they couldn't do with Cell or Freeza. Buu turning into liquid, extending his arms, going inside someones mouth, being blown up by Gotenks ghost kamikaze, etc. Why do people often overlook how unique Buu's fights were from all the other villains?
Plus he's a shape shifter! People often overlook this, but they could do so many unique things with Buu in a fight that they couldn't do with Cell or Freeza. Buu turning into liquid, extending his arms, going inside someones mouth, being blown up by Gotenks ghost kamikaze, etc. Why do people often overlook how unique Buu's fights were from all the other villains?
Re: So, where do you all stand on the Boo arc?
I think Boo could have been developed much more. As villain, he is aimless. Though it depends on how viewers interpret it (oddly amusing or annoyingly silly). Boo HAD potential to be the greatest anime villain EVER. Toriyama purposely watered-down his character just to stress his notion of ending the manga
On topic, I admit its an enjoyable Arc. Manga's snappier execution was to my liking, but Anime gave gorgeous moments as well.
I think Anoyoichi Budoukai & Great Saiyaman Arc were executed much better. It had action, comedy, plot, fun moments all over.
Boo Arc for most part felt very "average" even after the terrific Kid Boo final fight. There were too much of "empty moments" before Goku & Veggie's return which makes for a dull watch.
Gotenks vs Super Boo was for freaking 6 episodes!!! Are you kidding me?!?
Vegito vs Boohan dragged over 4 episodes when it could've been compressed in just 2
Goku & Veggie found their Family & Friends inside Boo's body in less than a chapter. Anime took freaking 2 episodes to cover that chapter. To say nothing of filler fight sequences & James Bond-esque escape mission (which was admitedly enjoying as it was animated by my fav animated, Ishikawa Shingo).
Overall, Boo Arc is undeniably entertaining. But could've been much superior.
On topic, I admit its an enjoyable Arc. Manga's snappier execution was to my liking, but Anime gave gorgeous moments as well.
I think Anoyoichi Budoukai & Great Saiyaman Arc were executed much better. It had action, comedy, plot, fun moments all over.
Boo Arc for most part felt very "average" even after the terrific Kid Boo final fight. There were too much of "empty moments" before Goku & Veggie's return which makes for a dull watch.
Gotenks vs Super Boo was for freaking 6 episodes!!! Are you kidding me?!?
Vegito vs Boohan dragged over 4 episodes when it could've been compressed in just 2
Goku & Veggie found their Family & Friends inside Boo's body in less than a chapter. Anime took freaking 2 episodes to cover that chapter. To say nothing of filler fight sequences & James Bond-esque escape mission (which was admitedly enjoying as it was animated by my fav animated, Ishikawa Shingo).
Overall, Boo Arc is undeniably entertaining. But could've been much superior.
Re: So, where do you all stand on the Boo arc?
Oh, if we're talking about the anime adaptation, I think they really nailed the pacing this arc in a way they never had before (in addition to it, for whatever reason, being maybe the most consistently well-directed in the series).
The only parts that overstay their welcome for me are the Vegito fight and the bit inside Boo. No doubt the Saiyaman portion lending itself to episodic material helped quite a bit, as did the manga's spartan treatment of Goku vs. Vegeta. They had a lot of ins to add necessary padding (necessary in terms of the manga staying ahead) without it feeling like it got in the way of the story.
It also has my favorite era of Kikuchi music. His score starts to shift away from its kung-fu-film inspiration a bit around this time, becoming more freewheeling and jazzy, and I think it perfectly fits the tone of the arc.
The only parts that overstay their welcome for me are the Vegito fight and the bit inside Boo. No doubt the Saiyaman portion lending itself to episodic material helped quite a bit, as did the manga's spartan treatment of Goku vs. Vegeta. They had a lot of ins to add necessary padding (necessary in terms of the manga staying ahead) without it feeling like it got in the way of the story.
It also has my favorite era of Kikuchi music. His score starts to shift away from its kung-fu-film inspiration a bit around this time, becoming more freewheeling and jazzy, and I think it perfectly fits the tone of the arc.
Re: So, where do you all stand on the Boo arc?
I hated how they handled Goku making the spirit bomb in the anime. The whole thing should have been one episode, tops, instead of three.
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Re: So, where do you all stand on the Boo arc?
That's not an arc.Kuririn Fan wrote:He became strongest unfused character and got a job he always wanted. He also got married and got a daughter. What more do you want?lancerman wrote: I think the only real failure was that Gohan didn't get closure. Goku and Vegeta got an arc. Gohan didn't.
Goku's arc: Wanted Earth to find successor who could protect them. Puts the Earth in danger by relying on Trunks/Goten/Gohan who are not necessarily the heroes he was, when he could have taken care of Boo. In the end, the people of Earth all come together to defend their planet. Then 10 years later he is rewarded with a young protégé is has a fighting IQ similar to his.
Vegeta's arc: Still hasn't gotten over his feeling of insecurity over Goku despite crafting a nice life for himself. Nearly causes the destruction of the universe (again) for being a self centered and obsessive over being better than Goku. Finally Goku reminds him that they created a good life on Earth with their own family and that there are things more important than their petty rivalry. He is forced to fight Buu with Goku, gains a better understanding of his main opponent, and finally puts his hatred aside and finds a modicum of peace.
Gohan? It would be one thing if Gohan had an arc about him wanting to be his own man and maybe not necessarily a fighter and that he got that in the end. But that was so far from the case. He had one foot in and one foot out the door the whole arc. He stops training after Cell, but wants to play hero. He then goes back in his father's shadow and plays the defender of Earth even dawning his father's apparel. Then he beats one version of the villain up only to get jobbed out quickly after, and then absorbed. Then he dies.
Sure he gets a happy ending. They all got happy endings. But his character was not given the same resolution. That whole "strongest none fused fighter" has always just come off as a meaningless title so his fans could have something to hold onto. Doesn't mean much when that whole arc was the bad guy fusing and the good guys fusing. Gohan just became another character in that arc while Vegeta was elevated to a more consequential level.
That ended up having ramifications in both GT and Super.
Re: So, where do you all stand on the Boo arc?
Overall, I loved the Buu Arc. Funny thing is, the worse parts of it for me was the beginning and the end. The stuff with Gohan going to school, Videl and Great Sayinman really dragged on for me. And the ending with Ubb just seemed really stupid (Seriously, Goku. CAN YOU THINK ABOUT YOUR FAMILY FOR ONCE!?) and forced. But aside from that, all the story in between was amazing. I loved the fights (Goku VS Vegeta was brutal), I loved how most of the fighters contributed, the concept of fusion was cool and I actually really loved Buu as a villain.
When Buu was goofy and stupid, it was a fun ride. When he was pissed off and ready to attack or eat, I was actually scared for the Z fighters. The scene where he eats EVERYONE is definitely one of my favourites. And the final battle was rich with tension and brutality, I was never a fan of the Broly movie, but this fight had what the Broly movie did best, but added other aspects to make it better.
Overall I think the Buu Arc was a good mix of serious, goofy and 'HOLY DRGONBALLS!'.
When Buu was goofy and stupid, it was a fun ride. When he was pissed off and ready to attack or eat, I was actually scared for the Z fighters. The scene where he eats EVERYONE is definitely one of my favourites. And the final battle was rich with tension and brutality, I was never a fan of the Broly movie, but this fight had what the Broly movie did best, but added other aspects to make it better.
Overall I think the Buu Arc was a good mix of serious, goofy and 'HOLY DRGONBALLS!'.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:
Spoiler:
Kanassa wrote:- FoolsGil, Out of Context, 2017FoolsGil wrote:I hope Mark is dead. But chances are the dragonballs will bring his stupid ass back.




