How would you make a Hollywood adaption ?

[JulieYBM]

I wrote this for animation originally, but since this thread is gaining steam I'll just post it here:

Dragon Ball no Densetsu Movie #1:

Prologue

Deep in the mountains there once lived a wise and respected martial artist, Son Gohan. Son Gohan lived with his monkey-tailed grandson, whom he named Son Gokuu, and taught him martial arts. One day, Gohan and Gokuu traveled deeper into the mountains on a training mission. Gokuu has trained diligently over the years but it becomes clearer and clearer to Gohan that his grandson’s physical capabilities are quickly surpassing that of the normal human. Wishing to see just how far Gokuu can go, Gohan hopes that teaching him martial arts will help turn the boy into the strongest in history.

After a diligent day’s training, Gohan and Gokuu enjoy a coyote over campfire. Gohan tells Gokuu stories of his past adventures as a young man, including how he acquired that little orange stone ball with the four stars on them. Gokuu is mystified by the idea of there being someone in the world stronger than Grandpa and makes up his mind to one day surpass them. Gohan laughs and praises Gokuu for his earnest nature. Unfortunately, the festivities are interrupted by the appearance of a full moon. To the shock of Gohan something happens to his boy at the sight of the full moon.

Son Gokuu awakens the next morning in his futon, beside his rather haggard grandpa. Son Gohan bequeaths to Gokuu the Four-Star Dragon Ball and asks of him to see the world and find his fortune (in the figurative sense). Gokuu agrees with the last wish, his reaction to his grandfather’s passing left unrevealed.

Title Card: DRAGON BALL NO DENSETSU PART I
Opening Credits Theme (90 seconds): Great Makafushigi Adventure「GREAT魔訶不思議アドベンチャー！」
Son Gokuu leaves his home behind and sets out on his adventure, Four-Star Dragon Ball tied in a bag on his belt, traveling through the forests and mountains, fighting all sorts of wild animals along the way until he runs into a girl driving a jeep that he mistakes for a youkai.

The world of Dragon Ball is a place filled with magic, talking animal people, martial artist and superhuman abilities, sometimes all rolled into one. The world is generally divided into three major superpowers, the World Kingdom, the Mifan Empire and the recently formed Red Ribbon Army. The World Kingdom, despite its names, is actually mostly a democratic republic led by the King. The World Kingdom has strived to unite the world under a banner of peace. The war between the Red Ribbon Army and World Kingdom has raged for nearly a year as Red now tries to expand his tyranny over the main regions of the world. The Mifan Empire is an ancient empire that has ruled the eastern lands of the Dragon Ball world for centuries. Under the regime of the prior emperor there was a tentative peace but since his death and the inauguration of his naïve, young son as the new emperor the wily head advisor has sought to stoke the flames of war. The final superpower is the Red Ribbon Army, a powerful private military with a growing number of strongholds across the world. The Red Ribbon Army is led by Supreme Commander Red, a short man who seeks to gather the Dragon Balls and use them for his own means.

The Ribbon War has seen much of the planet engulfed in terror with only main territories of the World Kingdom, the Mifan Empire, and the deep mountains left unscathed. There is a creeping sense that this will not remain so for very much longer The Red Ribbon Army has begun to hunt for the Dragon Balls in hopes that they can gain the advantage in the war.

Blooma, a genius sixteen year old girl, accidentally hits Son Gokuu with her car one day while searching for the Dragon Balls. Gokuu and Blooma become acquainted and Blooma tries to convince Gokuu to give the Four-Star Dragon Ball, his memento of his 'jii-chan', to her. Blooma makes lewd offers of touching her person in exchange for the Four-Star Dragon Ball that ‘Son-kun’ owns but is rebuffed (“Why would I want to touch your dirty butt?” “My butt is NOT dirty!”). Fearful of losing the Ball for good, Blooma hastily uses the belongings in Gokuu’s hut to piece together that he is a martial artist and that if he wants to expand his skills he needs to see the world. Gokuu reveals he was already on his way, so he doesn’t see much reason to go with Blooma. The genius sixteen year old girl finds herself back at square one and schemes to get back on track.

Hot on Blooma’s trail, Captain Silver and his men attack Gokuu's home in search of Gokuu’s Four-Star Dragon Ball and Gokuu shows off his incredible strength by defeating them. Remembering his grandpa’s words to be nice to cute (re: cute) girls, Gokuu agrees to travel with Blooma to find the other Dragon Balls and protect her while testing his strength against the rest of the Red Ribbon Army. Additionally, Gokuu ponders whether Blooma is ‘cute’, given he’s had no experience in the subject before.

Blooma takes the duo to a city to help build up their crew; they're going to need one if they're going to aggressively up their game against the Red Ribbon Army and get to the Dragon Balls first. This city is nothing like the shiny, untouched metropolis Blooma comes from. Although it is seen as a ‘neutral ground’ soldiers from both sides come to the city to unwind in as rowdy a fashion as possible. The city is heavily strained by the war and has fallen mostly into ruin. Gokuu and Blooma learn of stories of a fearsome shape-shifting demon, Oolong. Oolong runs the city’s criminal underground world and even has his own famed harem. Meanwhile, a monk named Kuririn has come to the big city to try and prove himself after constant humiliation from his upperclassmen at the Oren Doujou.

Blooma is kidnapped by Oolong’s men for use in his harem when separated from Gokuu. Kuririn, seeing this as a chance to look cool, springs into action. Gokuu also jumps to Blooma’s defense. Gokuu and Kuririn break into Oolong’s mansion and free Blooma. It turns out Oolong was just a weakling who could transform into fearsome-appearing monsters. The only reason the girls he ‘took’ for his harem stuck around was to maintain the illusion of Oolong’s strength. If he kept his power they could continue living comfortable lives. With his influence now gone, Oolong is chased out of town by upset locals. Blooma forces Oolong to come along with her as payback for nearly having her forced into his harem. Kuririn also joins up, seeing that if he fights alongside Gokuu he might be able to make a name for himself fighting the Red Ribbon Army.

The Mifan Empire is the third superpower in the world. Ruled by the young and naïve Emperor Chaozu, the Mifan Empire is really run by the head advisor, the Tsuru-sen’nin. The Tsuru-sen’nin trained Chaozu and his closest friend and body guard, Tenshinhan, in the martial arts since they were young. Having built a wealth of trust, the Tsuru-sen’nin is in actuality scheming to take over the empire and perhaps even arranged the mysterious circumstances surrounding the death of Chaozu’s parents. General Blue of the Red Ribbon Army acquires an audience with Emperor Chaozu and requests passage from Mifan waters so as to attack the World Kingdom where it is most vulnerable: the east coast. The Red Ribbon Army has the most advanced submarine fleet in the world and will surely be able to deal extensive damage to the one coast now protected by only a ‘ghost crew’ fleet. The Tsuru-sen’nin manipulates Chaozu into accepting the plan. That night Chaozu has a nightmare of something terrible occurring and telepathically cries out for Tenshinhan to come to his side. Tenshinhan consoles him despite being unsure of the future or the actions his master is taking.

In the desert, Blooma and gang meet Yamcha the Desert Bandit and Pu-erh. Yamcha is promised by Captain Violet (who is wearing a disguise to hide the fact that she is a woman) a large amount of money should he steal the Dragon Balls from Gokuu and kill him. Yamcha proves a fearsome equal of both Gokuu and Kuririn and is only chased off when he meets Blooma up close. Overhearing about the Dragon Balls’ ability to grant wishes, Yamcha vows to acquire them and wish away his fear of girls.

Blooma and company visit Mount Fry-Pan next. Mount Fry-Pan is a shire under the rule of the Gyuu-Maou, a loyal warlord under the Mifan Empire. The Tsuru-sen’nin allows the Gyuu-Maou to pillage the surrounding Mifan lands so long as he remains loyal to him. Emperor Chaozu is unaware that such an agreement exists.

Meanwhile, Yamcha and Pu-erh are hot on the trail of Son Gokuu and friends. The desert bandit comes across a young girl being chased by Red Ribbon Army soldiers. The girl kills the soldiers but confuses Yamcha for one of them. Fearful of having ‘lewd’ things done to her, Chi-Chi attacks Yamcha. Yamcha outwits her and knocks her unconscious. When asked by Pu-erh why he was not afraid of Chi-Chi, Yamcha replies “I’m no lolicon.”

Meanwhile, Gokuu and Kuririn are thrashed about by the Gyuu-Maou, who only spares them once Gokuu uses his Nyoi-bou. The Gyuu-Maou is surprised to find that he is Son Gohan’s grandson and spares their lives. The Gyuu-Maou reveals that he trained with his grandpa, Son Gohan, under the Muten Roushi. Gokuu agrees to find Chi-Chi, daughter of the Gyuu-Maou, and help her continue her journey to find the Muten Roushi and seek his help in quelling the fires engulfing his castle. Tao Pai-Pai proposes the death of the Gyuu-Maou due to his previous blunders after letting his state-issued rampaging get out of hand.

Gokuu finds Chi-Chi, who has recently been knocked unconscious by Yamcha. Chi-Chi instantly proposes to Gokuu. Gokuu assumes ‘marriage’ is merely some sort of food, so he accepts the proposal.

Tao Pai-Pai, an assassin advising for the Red Ribbon Army suggests having Captain Yellow lead an all-out assault on Mount Fry-Pan to retrieve the Dragon Ball located there. Captain Violet wishes to use her stealth corps to retrieve the Dragon Ball with minimal political damage but Tao Pai-Pai asserts that the Gyuu-Maou’s death would mean the loss of a powerful alley for the empire and can be written off as exterminating a known pillager and thug. Tao Pai-Pai also knows that the brash and foolish Captain Yellow is much easier to manipulate than the cunning Captain Violet. Supreme Commander Red agrees with Tao Pai-Pai and orders that Captain Yellow lead a full squadron of fighter planes and heavy armor tanks to destroy Mount Fry-Pan and acquire the Dragon Ball in the area. Yellow launches an all-out assault on Fry-Pan while Kuririn and even Yamcha help to defend the castle and townspeople.

Gokuu and Chi-Chi meet the Muten Roushi, a perverted old man who lives on a tiny island with a talking sea turtle named Umigame (sea turtle). Learning that his old student has been a very bad boy, the Muten Roushi agrees to go give him a spanking.

After arriving at Mount Fry-Pan, the Muten Roushi uses his Kamehame-Ha to obliterate Captain Yellow’s fighter jets and tanks. Figuring “Might as well do the mountain, too” the Muten Roushi aims the tail end of his wave at the Gyuu-Maou’s castle and accidentally blows it up, forgetting to lower his power output after destroying all of Yellow’s tanks and fighter jets. Yellow, having narrowly dodge the stream of ki, snaps up Chi-Chi to take as a hostage. Gokuu uses his own makeshift Kamehame-Ha and shoots down Yellow, much to the dismay of the Muten Roushi.

The Muten Roushi gives the Gyuu-Maou a stern talking to for using his might to pillage. The Gyuu-Maou apologizes and promises to recommit himself to a proper life as a martial artist. The Gyuu-Maou is ecstatic to learn that Gokuu is set to marry Chi-Chi while his friends are bewildered by the development. At the exigency of her father, Chi-Chi joins the ever-growing group led by Blooma.

Back in Mifan, Tenshinhan learns of the attack on the Gyuu-Maou and questions his teacher as to whether or not it was necessary to launch an attack on a Mifan territory, apparently of Tao Pai-Pai playing the Red Ribbon Army. The Tsuru-sen’nin calls the move a “strategic sacrifice to ensure the Empire’s survival.” Tenshinhan wonders to himself why his master said ‘Empire’s survival’ and not ‘Emperor’s survival’.

Blooma and friends head to the North to acquire the next Dragon Ball, Yamcha and Pu-erh still in secret pursuit. Learning that the Dragon Ball is somewhere inside of Muscle Tower the gang decides to storm the lair. Yamcha and Pu-erh insert themselves into the storming party with little complaint. As the tower begins to fall General White begrudgingly calls for backup. Tao Pai-Pai volunteers to go himself as traveling by a flying pole he throws will be the fastest way to acquire the Dragon Ball found by General White.

Tao Pai-Pai arrives on the scene. Yamcha provides exposition for why Tao Pai-Pai is one mean dude. Tao Pai-Pai kills Artificial Human #8 for betraying the Red Ribbon Army. Gokuu attacks in a rage but is defeated and nearly killed by Tao Pai-Pai’s Dodon-Pa. Tao Pai-Pai slaps Yamcha, Kuririn and Chi-Chi aside and takes the Dragon Radar from Blooma. Using it the assassin finds the spot where Blooma hid the backpack with the Dragon Balls and returns to the Red Ribbon Army headquarters. Luckily, Gokuu reveals that the Four-Star Ball he kept in his shirt protected him from the nigh fatal Dodon-Pa and has not fallen into enemy hands. Yamcha suggests that the gang go to the Muten Roushi’s house to hide and recover. Blooma triggers the failsafe in her Dragon Radar, insuring that her more accurate radar will not be used to locate their group.

At Kame House the Muten Roushi agrees to train Gokuu, Kuririn, Yamcha and Chi-Chi to prepare them for future confrontations with the Red Ribbon Army but first they, especially Gokuu, must rest and heal.

Back in the Mifan Empire, Chaozu learns that the war is only getting worse. Chaozu has not sanctioned any Mifan Empire military involvement in the war so far and plans to keep it that way. During a council meeting, Chaozu suggests leading a peace summit to try and end the violence. The Tsuru-sen’nin sees this as his opportunity and publically supports the idea amongst the other councilors. Unbeknownst to most, Tao Pai-Pai is actually the younger brother of the Tsuru-sen’nin. The Tsuru-sen’nin has Tao Pai-Pai delay his hunt for Son Gokuu’s group and convince Supreme Commander Red to agree to a meeting between the leaders of the three great superpowers. Tao Pai-Pai has grown quite a lot in stature within the Red Ribbon Army thanks to his sound military advice and his acquiring of six of the Dragon Balls. Tao Pai-Pai offers that the peace talks will be a nice distraction from the planned naval assault by General Blue through the Mifan waters, too. Red, blinded by greed and the opportunity to turn the peace talks into a discussion of the terms of surrender for the World Kingdom, agrees hastily to the plan. The Tsuru-sen’nin knows little would be able to pry Tenshinhan from the emperor’s side, so he assigns him the most important of missions: complete Tao Pai-Pai’s mission of finding Son Gokuu and the last Dragon Ball.

The day of the peace talks are soon arriving. Tao Pai-Pai discreetly hires Lunch, a blonde female arms dealer and thief, to rig the explosives at the hotel where the peace talks are to be held. The three leaders and their most loyal cabinet members attend the peace talks, barring Tenshinhan. The plan goes off without a hitch and the three leaders and their cabinet members are blown to kingdom come at the exact moment General Blue’s fleet begins its attack. The World King is dead and the fleet protecting the World Kingdom’s back side is sunk. Blue’s forces quickly capture the eastern coast while the World King’s armies hustle to strengthen their backside in face of a pincer attack now from both the west and east. Tao Pai-Pai paints himself as a hero who tried to save Supreme Commander Red. Combined with his record so far, Tao Pai-Pai easily leaps ahead of Adjutant Black and becomes the new Supreme Commander of the Red Ribbon Army. The Tsuru-sen’nin uses the attack as the perfect excuse to have Mifan openly enter the war while a shattered Tenshinhan contemplates what to do next.

To be continued…

[Hellspawn28]

If they got Karl Urban or Hugh Jackman as Goku, would fans be okay with it or will they hate it like they did with Justin Chatwin. Justin Chatwin is a bad actor which hurt his role as Goku and his role was written badly in the film. Not to mention he is a unknown actor and fans was hoping for a A list actor at the time in 2007.

[Bullza]

Asians aren't bankable at the Box Office. Jackie Chan used to be but who else is there?

They'd probably have to make him white just to appeal to the masses, the brand alone wouldn't attract non fans.

Karl Urban and Hugh Jackman aren't anything like Goku though. Too gruff looking to be Goku. Joseph Gordon Levitt would be a good Goku, he's about the right and he can do funny because he's been in loads of comedies. Kinda looks Asian too.

[Cipher]

Thread: How are we going whitewash Goku??

[Kunzait_83]

It is the year 2525. Nuclear war has ravaged the planet, reducing once-great civilizations into rubble. The people are frightened. America stands on the brink of destruction, the current administration maintaining infrastructure from a series of underground tunnels beneath the White House.

These are the circumstances under which Goku Jones was raised. This is his world. And when Chinese emperor Chun-Lin proposes to grant one wish to the victor of his tournament and share his country's water supply with theirs, Goku has to make the journey across the sea with the help of his friends. Armed with technology supplied by governor Kami and the bio-experiment Oolong, Goku has just ten days to get to the tournament grounds, seduce his childhood friend, Bulma, and gather the seven Dragon Balls--mechanical spheres containing passwords designed to stop the deadly warhead Chun-Lin plans to unleash during the distraction, codename: Kamehameha.

Time to hold onto your Dragon Balls. There's only one wish to be had, and this summer, it's going to be Goku's. Now the boy becomes a man. He's going to make it by his rules ... or die trying.

For some reason or other, this was running through my head the entire time I read that brilliant pitch.

Anyway, yes I'll just be a broken record yet again: while yes, making Dragon Ball as a live action movie comes with all kinds of its own complicated and risky pitfalls (namely figuring out how to properly adapt or by how much to incorporate Toriyama's particular sense of quirk), at the same time its also nowhere NEAR as much this uncrackable, overly elaborately difficult conundrum of a cinematic cocktail that a lot of these kinds of discussions make it out to be. The problem with all of these "live action Dragon Ball" discussions is that they always operate from the premise that Dragon Ball's overall shtick (outside of and beyond Toriyama's distinctive stylistic touches and humor) is somehow this unbelievably unique and heretofore barely-ever done non-entity in film. And that's... not even remotely close to true in the slightest.

And that's because... yes here it comes... Wuxia. Wuxia has been a part of film since literally the silent movie era, so technically speaking, we've BEEN having "live action Dragon Ball movies" of sorts coming through steadily and plentifully since the late 1920s up right on through to today unabated. China almost literally pumps these fuckers out nonstop, always have been and have continued to do so right on up to today.

And since the 80s there've been Wuxia films made with not only almost the same exact style of fighting and the same mystically Eastern fantasy concepts (Ki powers, a long ago and far away fantasy world of legendarily powerful martial arts masters and magically enchanted relics, bangsian journeying to the afterlife and meeting Eastern gods, etc: all pre-CGI mind you), but also even ones with Dragon Ball's EXACT same levels of drastic, sudden, on-a-dime tonal shifting (lighthearted whimsical slapstick comedy one moment, deathly serious, hyper-violent harshness the next) AND even ones that incorporate sci fi concepts like aliens, time travel, and robots into the usual Kung Fu fantasy mix as well. See Savior of the Soul, see Storm Riders, see Zu Warriors, see A Chinese Ghost Story, see Eagle Shooting Heroes, see Mad Monk, see Iceman Cometh, see Child of Peach, see A Chinese Tall Story, see Holy Weapon, see Legend of the Liquid Sword, see The Peacock King, see A Man Called Hero, see A Chinese Odyssey, hell see something as fairly recent as Tai-Chi Zero if you must, etc.

Dragon Ball's approach ain't really anywhere near as unique and unexplored in live action film as so many fans today still seem to think. Without these movies, you wouldn't even HAVE Dragon Ball in the first place. Without these movies you wouldn't even have The Matrix, which keeps (rightly) getting referenced as a point of reference for the fights. This is literally old fucking hat that's been done to death countless hundreds upon dozens upon hundreds of times over throughout the last 30/40 some-odd years alone: just over in Hong Kong rather than Hollywood. There was a whole fanbase for them and everything. Still kinda is in some circles. I mean, I literally grew up on a steady diet of these movies for like more than a decade of my childhood and adolescence, and they're the whole entire reason why I even gave a shit about Dragon Ball in the first place back in the day enough to a point that I'd so many years later wind up on a site like this yakking about it with you all intermittently.

I mean, not to diminish it or anything, but when it comes right down to it all that a "proper" live action Dragon Ball would ultimately bring to the table that'd be particularly or startlingly "new" or innovative for this genre in film is A) the fact that it'd be a nutty 80s/90s style Hong Kong Wuxia film - which today would be considered a "retro throwback" even over in China - with Dragon Ball's skin over it (and one would hope, VASTLY better care and production values than the original no-budget Taiwanese effort from back in the day) and B) possibly a genuine attempt at bringing various visual Toriyama-isms into the live action realm; certainly the biggest risk and challenge in and of itself by far.

And so far as all the talk of making a DB movie in the style of the MCU films: dear mother of god no. A few hundred million times no. We already saw EXACTLY what it would be like to make a Dragon Ball movie in the specific mold of current American superhero blockbuster trends: you got Dragonball Evolution out of that. Under the MCU-style, you'd get more or less the exact same thing, but now with an attempt at creating a broader interlocking "universe" of similar-such Dragon Ball movies tacked onto it. Dragonball Evolution: now with tons more open-ended spinoff setups - that are likely to go nowhere cause it would probably bomb just as hard again. So Amazing Spider-Man 2, but with Ki blasts. Wonderful.

Dragon Ball isn't Marvel Comics in the slightest: its boilerplate Chinese Fantasy Martial Arts (of a very specific time period of stylistic trends and fads within the genre) run through a very distinctive Japanese creative filter. Get an actual major Chinese studio with an actual, experienced and respectable Wuxia director and crew on it and a decent budget, as well as an art department that actually gives a shit about the source material, and leave the Kevin Feige's of Hollywood a billion miles the hell away from it.

Or you know, just don't even bother, let sleeping dogs lie and leave well enough alone. That seems a perfectly sane, sensible option to me as well.

By that token as I'm sure everyone here knows, we've got Hollywood presently trying to crack an entirely different other well beloved Japanese anime/manga series as a live action movie: and that looks like its gonna be an utterly horrifying trainwreck disaster of immense proportions to all appearances so far. Its certainly gotten social media in an uproar right now (not like that's something which is all that particularly difficult to do in the first place mind you).

Hollywood's kind of been in an extraordinarily unhealthy and toxic place for much of the last decade and change now anyway. I wouldn't want them touching ANY beloved property that I especially care about with an 800 foot Nyoi-Bo right about now. Not ALL of us out there are so enamored with the current "PG-13 tentpole" mold of mainstream American filmmaking, nor does everyone see the MCU approach in particular as being a "one size fits all" universal ideal that everything should in some way aspire/conform to or take cues from.

[Cipher]

By that token as I'm sure everyone here knows, we've got Hollywood presently trying to crack an entirely different other well beloved Japanese anime/manga series as a live action movie: and that looks like its gonna be an utterly horrifying trainwreck disaster of immense proportions to all appearances so far. Its certainly gotten social media in an uproar right now (not like that's something which is all that particularly difficult to do in the first place mind you).

Are you talking about Ghost In The The-Major-Could-Be-Any-Race-Really-So-We-Made-Her-Scarlett-Johansson?

[Kunzait_83]

Are you talking about Ghost In The The-Major-Could-Be-Any-Race-Really-So-We-Made-Her-Scarlett-Johansson?

Actually I heard that the current working title was Ghost in the CGI-"Yellowface"-In-2016-Are-You-Out-of-Your-Fucking-MINDS-Hollywood?!

[Kamiccolo9]

I mean, just to give an example of the stuff that Kunzait's talking about, the 2013 Journey to the West movie was one of the highest-grossing Chinese films of all time. For those of you who have been living under a rock, Dragon Ball was heavily inspired by Journey to the West. And by "heavily inspired" I mean "characters we transplanted from the older story to the newer one with slightly different names and with a more modern setting." From what I recall, the movie wasn't especially accurate to the source material, but it's still the same type of film a Dragon Ball movie would be.

[Esfír Dedragón]

Asians aren't bankable at the Box Office. Jackie Chan used to be but who else is there?

Tony Jaa? Then again, he's getting old.

[Cipher]

Actually I heard that the current working title was Ghost in the CGI-"Yellowface"-In-2016-Are-You-Out-of-Your-Fucking-MINDS-Hollywood?!

Hahaha, holy shit. Haven't been following it at all. Going to have to look this up now.

[Kunzait_83]

Hahaha, holy shit. Haven't been following it at all. Going to have to look this up now.

Yeah, the latest word making the rounds currently is that the studio's effort to mitigate the "whitewashing" backlash is that they're toying with the idea of using CGI to make ScarJo and a few of the other actors look "more Asian". Because THAT of course would just make the whole clusterfuck TOTALLY kosher clearly.

[Hellspawn28]

Hollywood can make decent adaptions of Japanese franchises. Godzilla 2014 was a pretty good flick and was better than the 1998 film. I do think another American Dragon Ball could work. By MCU tone, I don't mean done in the same 100% way as them. I just want a fun pop corn flick with a good story and not a super dark & gritty film. Some fans want a film done in the same tone as the Nolan Batman films or Saw.

[Kamiccolo9]

Hahaha, holy shit. Haven't been following it at all. Going to have to look this up now.

Yeah, the latest word making the rounds currently is that the studio's effort to mitigate the "whitewashing" backlash is that they're toying with the idea of using CGI to make ScarJo and a few of the other actors look "more Asian". Because THAT of course would just make the whole clusterfuck TOTALLY kosher clearly.

Well, once you start doing CGI dead people, I suppose it's only a matter of time before something like this happens.

On the other hand, disregarding the racial implications, this could have some pretty interesting effects on blurring the lines between live action and animation sometime in the future. Or maybe I'm thinking too deeply into this.

[Cipher]

On the other hand, disregarding the racial implications, this could have some pretty interesting effects on blurring the lines between live action and animation sometime in the future. Or maybe I'm thinking too deeply into this.

It could do that, but hopefully the result isn't that it becomes even more convenient to cast recognizable white actors into the few tentpole studio roles not written for them.

Thankfully, judging from the backlash, we're finally (maybe) reaching the point where that's too big a PR folly for studios to keep pushing. We need to get to the point where it's such a toxic practice that top talent, both directors and actors, won't want to be connected to projects going that route.

As for this particular case, just read up on it. Apparently they aren't going through with it, but were at one point testing CGI alterations to "shift the ethnicity" of certain actors. Which is still fucking unbelievable. Like, oh my god.

[Hellspawn28]

Race should not matter. As long if the actor or actress can pull off the character personality, it should be fine. I don't think if we got a Asian actor for Goku in DBE would have changed anything. I bet if Hugh Jackman played Goku, no one would bitch about it.

[Kunzait_83]

Race should not matter. As long if the actor or actress can pull off the character personality, it should be fine. I don't think if we got a Asian actor for Goku in DBE would have changed anything. I bet if Hugh Jackman played Goku, no one would bitch about it.

I like Jackman as much as the next person, but he's aging out of being able to play Wolverine now, much less Goku. This ain't 2002 anymore. I'm not especially fond of casting him as Goku myself anyway, but the point's moot: he's getting closer to 50 now. Safe to say that that ship has sailed.

[Cipher]

Race should not matter. As long if the actor or actress can pull off the character personality, it should be fine. I don't think if we got a Asian actor for Goku in DBE would have changed anything. I bet if Hugh Jackman played Goku, no one would bitch about it.

We're going to skew a little bit away from Dragon Ball here (though I'll tie it back in at the end of the post, I swear), but the reason this is so intolerable as a practice is that it creates a cyclical bias against non-white actors in Hollywood that can be trussed up as business sense (and, unfortunately, it is good business sense until it becomes unprofitable).

Studios aren't willing to back blockbuster projects without recognizable actors. Because of, basically, decade upon decade of more overt racism, our recognizable actors are predominantly white. Hey, that's fine. Nothing against any of them as individuals. Because of the same, most original blockbuster roles are written for white characters or devoid of racial implications entirely, which also lead to white casting or a rather dishonest portrayal of other races in terms of background and concerns.

So when we get adaptation projects which are absolutely written to feature non-white actors, or at least could, that's a big deal. Those roles don't pop up as often as they should. But even then, studios fill the roles with a recognizable white actor.

Which ... sucks. It really does. It's not so much about how one movie turns out as a result of that decision -- although I have a hard time believing any are better for it as art, since you lose verisimilitude and there's no way there aren't non-white actors just as capable as any of the A-listers (or even B- or C-listers because holy hell, look at Dragon Ball Evolution among others) granted these roles. It's about the fact that it creates, and sanctions, an artistic industry with clear racial hierarchy. That blows, and no one wins. Not audiences, not actors, not a society that touts equitable meritocracy.

And hopefully people can see the recursiveness of that. "It'd be great if there were non-white actors as recognizable as (whoever else), but there aren't" goes the justification. Of course the only way to create those recognizable non-white actors is for a studio to bite the bullet and start casting them in larger roles in the rare times a project is written for them.

No big studio is going to rock the boat on that while it still makes financial sense not to. Which is why it's important as consumers and cultural spectators, if we don't want to support a racialized industry and, frankly, want better films, to continue to make this practice so visible and so toxic to endorse that talent refuse to have their projects connected to it. Or we have to not give it our money, or both.

Because, sure -- Hugh Jackman could be a great Goku (or whatever). But there's no reason for him to get the role over someone who fits the part visually and is just as good -- which is how any role would be handled until it involves a non-white character.

Kid Boo is the strongest Boo.

[Zephyr]

I mean, just to give an example of the stuff that Kunzait's talking about, the 2013 Journey to the West movie was one of the highest-grossing Chinese films of all time. For those of you who have been living under a rock, Dragon Ball was heavily inspired by Journey to the West. And by "heavily inspired" I mean "characters we transplanted from the older story to the newer one with slightly different names and with a more modern setting." From what I recall, the movie wasn't especially accurate to the source material, but it's still the same type of film a Dragon Ball movie would be.

This one and Kung Fu Hustle give me huge Dragon Ball vibes every time I watch them, for whatever reason. The blend of fast paced martial arts action and particular style of whimsy, perhaps. If they made a live action DB film that felt like Kung Fu Hustle, I'd be pretty fucking pleased.

[Hellspawn28]

Andy Serkis would make a good Kid Buu if Buu was ever adapted in live action.

[Zephyr]

I'd actually kill to see a live action Dragon Ball film that takes place in the manga continuity (or, Toriyama's continuity at least). Only, later on in the future. Where Goku's older. That way Jackie Chan could still play Goku.