Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

[Blade]

Btw, i don't mind an episode having a lot of standing around to balance out the action, as long as they fill it up with useful dialogue, or building up the tension. It's certainly better than seeing unrelated and long gags with Pilaf's gang or those cutaway adventures that Z did a lot like Chi Chi wanting to travel to Namek.

Those cutaways weren't all still drawings, though - they actually had plenty of movement. Don't confuse plot-padding for drawing conservation.

[Araki]

Btw, i don't mind an episode having a lot of standing around to balance out the action, as long as they fill it up with useful dialogue, or building up the tension. It's certainly better than seeing unrelated and long gags with Pilaf's gang or those cutaway adventures that Z did a lot like Chi Chi wanting to travel to Namek.

Those cutaways weren't all still drawings, though - they actually had plenty of movement. Don't confuse plot-padding for drawing conservation.

"Plenty of movement" that still requires a lot less drawings than an action scene.
Often plot-padding is used for both ends.

[Wezenheim]

I personally would like more fight episodes to at least be somewhere near this, I just really wish such a huge episode could have had just a few more bits of cool stuff. I can only imagine how cool it would have been (for me at least, other opinions aside) if someone like Tate or even a guest like Oonishi Ryo had been able to do a bulk of the work here with proper time and the amount of help Kitano got. I'm gonna try to quit being a Negative Nancy though, I did love the episode and its not like there weren't parts I thought were really cool.

[FortuneSSJ]

-Episode 39-
This is exactly how I want a Dragon Ball episode! Everything looking good and still giving me the action I want. I don't need anything "fluid" or whatever Tate does most of the time.
Congratulations to all the staff. That's how you keep Fortune happy.

[Bansho64]

It seems like most of the fans like 39 more than any other episodes while most of them didn't like 38. Which is kinda disappointing considering that 38 looked like it had much more work put into it. I think it might have more to do more with the story though.

[PMD]

Now we're talking, baby!!!! THIS is a well drawn Dragon Ball episode! Just classic.
Awesome job by Yamamuro and Kitano, as always.

What a back to back!! Episodes 38 and 39 are by far the best things that happened to this franchise since they decided to come back.

Of course it has his bad things (as any DBS episode) but overall Ep. 39 felt AWESOME visually. That Kaio-Ken part, HOLLY HELL!! I was screaming.like a Belieber in a concert.

Fellas, I like where this is going. Cheers.

[DragonHermit]

It irritates me more that fans will settle for on-model characters, even if the animation is dogshit.

I personally just can't enjoy things if they are off model. It's just distracting. Also, that scene of Goku and Hit that you called terrible looked pretty good to me. This episode looks way better than Naoki Tate's eps. The only part I enjoy from 38 was the 360 (not even sure if that was Tate)

P.S. Does anyone know why the rushed production schedules? Is it because it's a weekly show? Lack of staff members? Lack of $?

[Sodhi]

P.S. Does anyone know why the rushed production schedules? Is it because it's a weekly show? Lack of staff members? Lack of $?

Lack of pre production.

[Bansho64]

I like how they payed homage to the Saiyan arc at the scene where Goku throws the Kamehameha at Hit. People can call it lazy but I thought it was a pretty nice throwback

[DragonHermit]

Lack of pre production.

Is that due to lack of $, or terrible management from higher ups?

[Sodhi]

Lack of pre production.

Is that due to lack of $, or terrible management from higher ups?

Bad planning on toei's/shueisha's part. They rushed the series because they immediately wanted something on the same time slot of kai when it ended. However it backfired and this is where we are now.

[DragonHermit]

Lack of pre production.

Is that due to lack of $, or terrible management from higher ups?

Bad planning on toei's/shueisha's part. They rushed the series because they immediately wanted something on the same time slot of kai when it ended. However it backfired and this is where we are now.

The feedback from a year's worth of episode should help them out. Then again I don't know if Toei really cares

[Bansho64]

Did you guys like the double aura? Or would you have preferred if they went with one instead of two?

[ParkerAL]

Is that due to lack of $, or terrible management from higher ups?

One likely theory is that Toei had to rush the series into production in order to have something ready to fill Dragon Ball Kai's Tv slot.

EDIT: Ninja'd

Spoiler:

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

I really can't help but wonder if Super can offer episodes like this one and the last one with this rushed production schedule, what it could be without that problem.

Considering the animators working on last night's episode, I am absolutely blown away that it was as mediocre as it ended up. Re-used scenes from last week, a flashback to Z, excessive standing around, and an extended recap all point to a hugely troublesome episode. For as controversial as Tate's episode may have been, it's hard to deny that it was much more dynamic than this week. I'm very surprised at the supervisor rotation choices, honestly; Kitano isn't really the guy to have on a climactic episode. Yashima handling the final part of the battle, too?! It's baffling, to say the least.

But back to last night: when Ken Otsuka and Tadayoshi Yamamuro can't produce, at the very least, satisfying animation for a climax, there's a pretty big issue. For all the shit I give Yamamuro, I won't pretend he's not a world above many of the average animators working on Super. As stiff as his work was on episode 13, it's far better than many of the cuts from last night. I was very surprised to see that he handled so little of the episode!

I'm just glad that we had this to kick things off -- I really enjoyed it. The hand wiggle was beautifully fluid, and filled with character. Followed up by a great dash that actually used background animation was very surprising. Super tends to fake that type of stuff in After Effects, and it rarely looks good. The speedy punches could have been better by varying the flurries like Z used to do, but it was still visually appealing, so it gets a pass from me!

This was absolutely dreadful. It reuses the same Otsuka close-up flurries from earlier, but colours them differently to try and hide the fact. The long-shot is laughably bad. I rarely go, "Really?!" when watching the show live, but that totally took me out of the moment -- as if those speed lines were helping anything! What annoys me most about the cut is that the ending punch to Hit's cheek isn't even properly animated. It's one drawing of Goku's arm being digitally moved across the screen to Hit's cheek, at which point Hit's face snaps into the flinch frame. It's why I said some parts of the episode moved like cardboard. That's not animation.

This was the strongest part of the episode by a large margin, but I do think it also speaks volumes about the schedule totally killing the impact this episode could have had. While the transformation is fine, the action that follows it is crippled by endless shaking stills and poorly timed loop flurries. It's only saved by the scene at approximately 1:09 - 1:15, where (I assume) Otsuka placed most of his attention. I only wish it were longer! I had assumed we were about to head into Takahashi territory, but unfortunately, I was wrong.

I'm sure these posts must get on some people's nerves, and I really do apologise for that. I tried to explain it best on Twitter last night. About a year ago, I dove head first into understanding the intricacies of animation, and it totally changed how I watched anime -- for better and for worse. While I can now appreciate show's best moments on a deeper level than, "Oh, this is great!", it's also left me with an eagle eye for sub par work. I find it impossible to ignore -- especially when I know the talent behind it can do so much better. I equated it to finding out that your Dragon Boxes have bad colour and the audio out of sync; once you notice it, it's so difficult to pretend it's not there.

I found new appreciation for the creative ways that Z and GT's staff got over the limitations of a weekly show, and it irritates me to no end that Super doesn't follow suit. It irritates me more that fans will settle for on-model characters, even if the animation is dogshit. I want the best for this show, and I really hope my criticisms sound fair, even if some of you don't necessarily agree with them. I'm not here to incessantly complain; I just want to realistically document the quality of each episode.

I agree with most of what you said, but let's be honest, is it not impressive that they were able to pull off something like #39 with limited resources and scheduling they had? If they could pull off something like that, wouldn't that help set an ideal bar for the animators to reach upon? Personally I do believe they could, after watching #39 several times. The schedule seems improved a little bit (still not enough), so with that improvement, we probably can now expect the episodes from here out to feel like Dragon Ball .

I know a lot about animation and production, but I try not to be overly harsh on them. Disappointed, yes, but I don't expect a world class animation, like Jacob does, with that kind of scheduling they currently have on hands. If they had a good production schedule, I probably would be in the same boat as Jacob, but since they don't have it, then I just move on. I'm glad that they were able to deliver good episodes for 3 consecutive weeks.

Granted, they will probably never be able to be in the same league as Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball GT, mainly due to less alloted drawing allowed, bad schedule, and flux of new animators, but latter can and will be changed in due time. The original Dragon Ball had similar issue, but they had 153 episodes to hone their skills and it showed in Dragon Ball Z. We can expect a similar situation. I guess time will only tell, but for now I hope we can enjoy the episodes from here out even if it's not spectacular.

[JulieYBM]

I don't exactly expect world class animation. I expect good staff to be allowed to do the quality they do on other series.

[A Man named RJ]

It irritates me more that fans will settle for on-model characters, even if the animation is dogshit.

Being an animator, myself the biggest gripe other animators have with the anime fans in general (and probably a big reason as to why older western animators cant stand anime) is because a lot of what the more casual fans like.
Animators I've shown this show to eat Naoki Tate's animation up. They tend to think somebody like Shida looks too flashy or "rubberbandy" and has an offputting flow behind it. They flat out dismiss the stiff animation, and many of them think that's all anime is, which is why they dont like it (I hate that argument too, it's like if i said every western cartoon was Hanna-Barbera quality

I agree. repeating 3 frames quickly is just plain cheap. but the casual anime fan would rather the characters be 100% on model. I've also noticed the casual fan doesnt know the difference between art and animation. they say "look at this, the animation is garbage" the screencap i got was of this here.

Spoiler:

(i had to go and find the exact shot)


the ANIMATION was garbage, not "I think the art is too loose here"
if you're unaware that shot belongs to this
https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/21738 ... oki_morimu

other examples include something like the second dragon of the darkness flame from Yu Yu Hakusho (or any of Atsushi's work in the series)

Spoiler:

first one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cYTTC4YorM

stiff and kinda boring to look at.

second one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv5HMHyoq2Y

HOLY DYNAMIC ANIMATION, BATMAN!!!

It's happened to other animation shots with loose physics, particularly around somebody like Naoki tate.
I suppose it's just a large disconnect between casual anime fans and people who've chosen to make animation a career, but I'm definitely for looser animation. it's just more dynamic to me

[Cipher]

The feedback from a year's worth of episode should help them out. Then again I don't know if Toei really cares

The "feedback" doesn't really matter. The time isn't there. They're committed to a weekly timeslot and rushed in without normal pre-production time.

Even veteran talents are being reduced by having to work much closer to deadline than they normally would.

[DragonHermit]

You're saying that as if though the series didn't have enough time to iron out pre production and scheduling problems. Yes, they rushed into it because of DB Kai time slot, but there is no reason why now, a year later, they can't allocate more time to produce the weekly episodes.

[Cipher]

You're saying that as if though the series didn't have enough time to iron out pre production and scheduling problems. Yes, they rushed into it because of DB Kai time slot, but there is no reason why now, a year later, they can't allocate more time to produce the weekly episodes.

They'd have to have gotten significantly ahead at some point to have significantly more time.

There are certain things they can do: plan animation-light episodes to allow good animators more time on action-heavy ones and possibly make up a time deficit, allocate more resources to each particular episode to offset the tight production time, or they could go on hiatus with new episodes. The latter's certainly not going to happen, and the former two aren't incredibly tenable, or aren't going to show immediate results.

They can't make more time appear out of nowhere if they've been fighting deadlines from the start.

Hopefully they have been gaining a bit of time back during the first year, but we don't know how significant it will be.