Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Khin]

I'm just going to assume that Beerus knew what Kaio-ken and how it multiply the user up to 10x,20x etc.He and Kaio seems pretty close to each other that they played racing game,hide and seek etc,so it's not too far-fetched for him to know the technique,so when Goku turned into Kaioken,Beerus could be thinking about the possibility of Goku multiplying it by x20 or something and beat the crap out of him.Elder Kaioshin seems to also know about the Kaio-ken so it's possible that Kaio-ken is pretty popular to gods.

[ZombieVito]

I just use the Daizenshuu 7 numbers for the Fodder Squad. I never saw any problem with them.

Has anyone tried to make sense out of SSB Kaioken yet?

On the one hand, Beerus freaking out and sweating when Goku merely used Kaio-Ken x2 heavily implies that the 6-10-15 scale is still in place, and that KK x10 Goku should wipe the floor with Beerus (Beerus denies being afraid of the KK x2, but his tone of voice, facial expressions, and mannerisms say otherwise). On the other hand, Toriyama's statement that he has no plans for GOKU to surpass Beerus says otherwise (though that could've been a lie...). So I'll just wait for further information. We'll probably get that next week.

Beerus and Whis's reaction to Kaioken x10 was strangely missing now that I think about it. The 6/10/15 scale can indeed still exist.

I'm just going to assume that Beerus knew what Kaio-ken and how it multiply the user up to 10x,20x etc.He and Kaio seems pretty close to each other that they played racing game,hide and seek etc,so it's not too far-fetched for him to know the technique,so when Goku turned into Kaioken,Beerus could be thinking about the possibility of Goku multiplying it by x20 or something and beat the crap out of him.Elder Kaioshin seems to also know about the Kaio-ken so it's possible that Kaio-ken is pretty popular to gods.

The way Beerus talked about it suggest he doesn't know about the technique.

[Khin]

The way Beerus talked about it suggest he doesn't know about the technique.

It's more like Beerus doesn't know that Goku have Kaioken,which makes sense since he was in his slumber when Kaio taught it to Goku.Beerus wondered why Goku is reluctant to use it,implying that he doesn't know about the strain SSB + Kaioken will have,which supports the Beerus thinking about the possibility of Goku using Kaioken x20 or something against him thing.

[Desassina]

How about the numbers 15/10/6 being on a Richter scale? You know:

Whis - 1'000'000'000'000'000 = 10^15
Beerus (100%) - 10'000'000'000 = 10^10
BoG SSJ Goku - 1'000'000 = 10^6

Then, by considering SSJ to be 10 times the increase over base, Goku could be 1 before he got the God power. By using KKx10, he goes from the Universe 6 Tournament power of 7 to 8, for example, and still be below Beerus. I think I'm going to consider this scale from now on, and try to work some numbers.

[DanielSSJ]

How about the numbers 15/10/6 being on a Richter scale? You know:

Whis - 1'000'000'000'000'000 = 10^15
Beerus (100%) - 10'000'000'000 = 10^10
BoG SSJ Goku - 1'000'000 = 10^6

Then, by considering SSJ to be 10 times the increase over base, Goku could be 1 before he got the God power. By using KKx10, he goes from the Universe 6 Tournament power of 7 to 8, for example, and still be below Beerus. I think I'm going to consider this scale from now on, and try to work some numbers.

If that were the case, Beerus would've finger flicked Goku at 1% of his strength, not use 70% and have a somewhat decent advantage.

[ZombieVito]

What are your numbers for:

Freeza [second form]:
-- Power up:
-- Full power:
-- Third form:

Piccolo [After assimilating Nail]:
-- Without weighted clothes:

[apex_pretador]

What are your numbers for Kuririn, Chaozu, Tenshinhan and Yamcha during the Nappa arc?

My numbers:

Tenshinhan: 1,600
Kuririn: 1,450
Yamcha: 1,350
Chaozu: 1,000

Tien : 1550 (Not much above krillin, he didn't do better anyways)

Krillin : 1480 (He was slightly above 1500 on namek and significantly below 2000)

Yamcha : 1330 (Beat saibaman with little trouble)

Chiaotzu : Less than 800 (Trash)

What are your numbers for:

Freeza [second form]:
-- Power up:
-- Full power:
-- Third form:

Piccolo [After assimilating Nail]:
-- Without weighted clothes:

Freeza
530,000 (1st F)

1,090,000 (2nd F)
1,200,000 (powerup)
1,400,000 (FP)

2,000,000 (3rd F)

Piccolo:
150,000
1,250,000 (Merged)
1,500,000 (Unweighted)

[RandomGuy96]

What are your numbers for:

Freeza [second form]:
-- Power up:
-- Full power:
-- Third form:

Piccolo [After assimilating Nail]:
-- Without weighted clothes:

Freeza [second form]: 800,000
-- Power up: 1,000,000
-- Full power: 1,200,000
-- Third form: 1,600,000

Piccolo [After assimilating Nail]: 1,040,000
-- Without weighted clothes: 1,300,000

[DanielSSJ]

What are your numbers for:

Freeza [second form]:
-- Power up:
-- Full power:
-- Third form:

Piccolo [After assimilating Nail]:
-- Without weighted clothes:

Second Form Freeza - 1,000,001
vs Gohan - 1,200,000
vs. Piccolo - 1,500,000
Third form - 2,000,000

Piccolo (+ Nail) - 1,500,000

I generally don't bother with weighted power levels for Piccolo. Seems unnecessary.

[VegetaSSJBlue]

What are your numbers for:

Freeza [second form]:
-- Power up:
-- Full power:
-- Third form:

Piccolo [After assimilating Nail]:
-- Without weighted clothes:

Freeza [second form]: 1,000,000
-- Power up: 1,200,000
-- Full power: 1,400,000
-- Third form: 2,000,000

Piccolo [After assimilating Nail]: 1,250,000
-- Without weighted clothes: 1,500,000

[Desassina]

How about the numbers 15/10/6 being on a Richter scale? You know:

Whis - 1'000'000'000'000'000 = 10^15
Beerus (100%) - 10'000'000'000 = 10^10
BoG SSJ Goku - 1'000'000 = 10^6

Then, by considering SSJ to be 10 times the increase over base, Goku could be 1 before he got the God power. By using KKx10, he goes from the Universe 6 Tournament power of 7 to 8, for example, and still be below Beerus. I think I'm going to consider this scale from now on, and try to work some numbers.

If that were the case, Beerus would've finger flicked Goku at 1% of his strength, not use 70% and have a somewhat decent advantage.

That's true, but even considering the old scale to be linear, Whis could karate chop Beerus into sleep, which is not what the difference of 1.5 represents.

[RandomGuy96]

It was an off-guard blow to the back of the neck/head. Even ignoring the possibility of Whis hitting a specific pressure point, we've seen one-shot knockouts with a hit like that from power differences smaller than x1.5. Most notably, Majin Vegeta knocking out Goku.

[Desassina]

Are we putting different weight to blows now? This is a show, if Beerus is taken down by Whis' light blow, then it's supposed to represent a huge gap in power. However, the difference between it being light or heavy lies in animation, not the force that they apply, because this is a kids' show. Whis and Beerus are far apart.

[RandomGuy96]

Are we putting different weight to blows now?

Why wouldn't we?

This is a show, if Beerus is taken down by Whis' light blow, then it's supposed to represent a huge gap in power.

1. x1.5 is a large gap in power by this series' standards. Ginyu estimated that Goku would only have to be around x1.5 stronger than Recoome to take him down with one clean blow to the solar plexus. While Recoome was off-guard. Ginyu also estimated that Goku would only have to be around that level to totally speed blitz Burter and take him out with 3-4 hits, or to fend off attacks from Burter and Jeice at the same time.

2. According to who?

However, the difference between it being light or heavy lies in animation, not the force that they put, because this is a kids' show.

It was animated as an off-guard blow to the back of the neck, possibly on a pressure point. Even if Whis and Beerus were equals (and they weren't, Whis was much more powerful), the precedent of Goku vs Majin Vegeta would imply that Beerus would still get knocked out.

[Desassina]

Way to get offensive... I was just asking. I see that you just don't want the logarithmic scale, which is fine, but... Well, you're in the Fan Created Works section, so good luck with the logic and numbers.

[Noah]

Considering today characters like Whis, Vados, Beerus and Champa, battle powers would be in the trillions already?

[apex_pretador]

Considering today characters like Whis, Vados, Beerus and Champa, battle powers would be in the trillions already?

I've seen people put buuhan / vegetto etc already in trillions.

[VegetaSSJBlue]

Considering today characters like Whis, Vados, Beerus and Champa, battle powers would be in the trillions already?

1 trillion: Buu Arc SS Vegetto

Vados: 1,550
Whis: 1,500
Beerus: 1,000
Champa: 950

SSB Goku Kaioken x10: 900

[Noah]

1 trillion: Buu Arc SS Vegetto

Vados: 1,550
Whis: 1,500
Beerus: 1,000
Champa: 950

SSB Goku Kaioken x10: 900

I'm confused, so Whis and cia are in quadrillions already and Kaioken 10x SSGSS Goku is 900 trillions?

[VegetaSSJBlue]

1 trillion: Buu Arc SS Vegetto

Vados: 1,550
Whis: 1,500
Beerus: 1,000
Champa: 950

SSB Goku Kaioken x10: 900

I'm confused, so Whis and cia are in quadrillions already and Kaioken 10x SSGSS Goku is 900 trillions?

??
Beerus/Champa > SSB Goku Kaioken x10
SSB Goku: 90