Thoughts on Cell arc

[Gorou]

Simply, Toriyama had not think of that possibility (not the destruction of Saiyans, but of their vehicles, which would have caused the death), and therefore the behaviour of the characters sound more stupid of the episode in question (I challenge anyone to prove the contrary). In that episode, they preferred to revive Goku, and rely on him to stop the Saiyans (with the new power obtained, maybe could do it), just like they decided to trust him when he expressed his desire to confront the androids (with 3 years of intense training, he could even beat them, who knows?)

[DonAce]

The most damning thing I could say about how everyone behaves is that even if it were consistent, it wouldn't make it much more enjoyable to sit through. It'd just make everyone seem wholly unlikable.

[Kuririn Fan]

Which part? And when did it say there was a limit of a year for mass revivals?

Oh my god, you are amazing, you never give up, never surrender.
Ok, so, first of all you didn't say there was a limit for mass revivals - i said - Kami says that when they're about to revive all those killed by Freeza. What you said is that there's limit for single revivals and that's why Gohan couldn't come back even if he wanted to. But, the truth is, there is no such rule and Upa even wonders if Goku will revive Gohan, but he says that he likes it in the Other World. And that's why Freeza came back.

[ABED]

Simply, Toriyama had not think of that possibility (not the destruction of Saiyans, but of their vehicles, which would have caused the death), and therefore the behaviour of the characters sound more stupid of the episode in question (I challenge anyone to prove the contrary). In that episode, they preferred to revive Goku, and rely on him to stop the Saiyans (with the new power obtained, maybe could do it), just like they decided to trust him when he expressed his desire to confront the Androids (with 3 years of intense training, he could even beat them, who knows?)

That's not quite the same thing. Goku was complicit in letting the cyborgs be created. He didn't have to trade his life for that fight. In the instance of the Saiyans, assuming I'm correct about the time limit (which if I'm wrong, really should have been true), then that's a much more understandable choice. Either leave your friend dead but stop the possible destruction of your world, or bring back your friends and risk it. Keep in mind Goku hadn't failed them before in stopping a world wide threat.

Oh my god, you are amazing, you never give up, never surrender.
Ok, so, first of all you didn't say there was a limit for mass revivals - i said - Kami says that when they're about to revive all those killed by Freeza. What you said is that there's limit for single revivals and that's why Gohan couldn't come back even if he wanted to. But, the truth is, there is no such rule and Upa even wonders if Goku will revive Gohan, but he says that he likes it in the Other World. And that's why Freeza came back.

Calm down. I know I never said there was a limit for mass revivals. I asked when was it said in the series? And he doesn't say there's a limit, he says he doesn't know if Shen Long can revive that many people because it had never been done before. You keep bringing up Freeza's revival to which i reply Toriyama's terrible with consistency. Do you expect him to remember that rule he created 20 years prior? Also, it's a different set of Dragon Balls. Dende's were more powerful than Kami's. He couldn't even remember his one year rule after a single arc before Goku left on his adventure to find the 4 star ball. Do you expect him to remember every rule 20+ years later assuming they even apply?

[Kuririn Fan]

He does say that they all can be revived but only if they died within the past year. But you watch the dub, so you wouldn't know that.

[ABED]

He does say that they all can be revived but only if they died within the past year. But you watch the dub, so you wouldn't know that.

I have watched the dub, I haven't in years. I've seen the original FAR more. How would you know how I watch the show anyway?

[Gorou]

The most damning thing I could say about how everyone behaves is that even if it were consistent, it wouldn't make it much more enjoyable to sit through. It'd just make everyone seem wholly unlikable.

Personally, the only truly unlikable character was Vegeta, but that was his role: a selfish character, not at all interested in the good of the Earth, whose arrogance is excessive self-confidence, multiplied by the new power obtained, was punished severely on several occasions (we speak of one that are a few years earlier, he was exterminating millions of aliens without the slightest remorse)

His son, Trunks, was the opposite. The others, only had faith in Goku as usual.

[Kuririn Fan]

He does say that they all can be revived but only if they died within the past year. But you watch the dub, so you wouldn't know that.

I have watched the dub, I haven't in years. I've seen the original FAR more. How would you know how I watch the show anyway?

Because you would know the accurate, real script of the real show if you watched it in Japanese.

[ABED]

There's no argument that Goku wasn't reckless, but at least it's in character for him to allow the Cyborgs to be created.

Because you would know the accurate, real script of the real show if you watched it in Japanese.

First, I do. Second, that's condescending of you to say I haven't. And third, it's a TV show with 500+ episodes and a number of contradictions. Don't you think that it's possible for even a fan to forget something like this, even assuming you are correct? Other than you, the sources I've read back up my claim. I'm looking at the manga summaries written by Curtis Hoffman, and it says there's a one year limit.

[Kuririn Fan]

There's a one year limit for mass revivals, not for 1 person. That's been the rule since forever and not once contradicted.

[Gorou]

There's no argument that Goku wasn't reckless, but at least it's in character for him to allow the Cyborgs to be created.

Correct.

That's not quite the same thing. Goku was complicit in letting the cyborgs be created. He didn't have to trade his life for that fight. In the instance of the Saiyans, assuming I'm correct about the time limit (which if I'm wrong, really should have been true), then that's a much more understandable choice. Either leave your friend dead but stop the possible destruction of your world, or bring back your friends and risk it. Keep in mind Goku hadn't failed them before in stopping a world wide threat.

I'm saying that the event is more stupid because the characters don't even have considered the eventuality to destroy the sayan's ships (they could do it immediately, without waiting for a year and then resurrect Goku in peace). They don't have spontaneously decided to revive Goku at the expense of the ability to destroy the ships, because the last option was not even taken in exam. They were stupid not to think about it.

[ABED]

There's a one year limit for mass revivals, not for 1 person. That's been the rule since forever and not once contradicted.

That's not what Kami said. I think you misread what Kami meant. I'm well aware of the scene where he talks to Kaio about the plan to bring back the Namekians and the timelimit has nothing to do with the number of people revived. Now that I think about it, I'm absolutely certain I'm correct. The issue with the mass resurrection wasn't the time limit, it was whether Shen Long could A) revive that many people, and B) revive them that far away.

I'm saying that the event is more stupid because the characters don't even have considered the eventuality to destroy ships the sayan (they could do it immediately, without waiting for a year and then resurrect Goku in peace). They don't have spontaneously decided to revive Goku at the expense of the ability to destroy the ships, because the last option was not even taken the exam. They stupid not to think about it.

I think it's dumb of them to have not even thought of the possibility, but there's a difference between thinking of it and considering it. But even if they had, assuming I'm correct about the time limit, they would have to take into account the trade off.

[Kuririn Fan]

There's a one year limit for mass revivals, not for 1 person. That's been the rule since forever and not once contradicted.

That's not what Kami said. I think you misread what Kami meant. I'm well aware of the scene where he talks to Kaio about the plan to bring back the Namekians and the timelimit has nothing to do with the number of people revived. Now that I think about it, I'm absolutely certain I'm correct. The issue with the mass resurrection wasn't the time limit, it was whether Shen Long could A) revive that many people, and B) revive them that far away.
limit, they would have to take into account the trade off.

Dude, i literally just read that chapter. YOU are not correct.But this, just like that arc division talk (there are 10 arcs and Baba's tournament is part of RRA) is off topic. If you don't have to say anything about your thoughts on Cell arc, they don't say anything at all.

[ABED]

There's a one year limit for mass revivals, not for 1 person. That's been the rule since forever and not once contradicted.

That's not what Kami said. I think you misread what Kami meant. I'm well aware of the scene where he talks to Kaio about the plan to bring back the Namekians and the timelimit has nothing to do with the number of people revived. Now that I think about it, I'm absolutely certain I'm correct. The issue with the mass resurrection wasn't the time limit, it was whether Shen Long could A) revive that many people, and B) revive them that far away.
limit, they would have to take into account the trade off.

Dude, i literally just read that chapter. YOU are not correct.But this, just like that arc division talk (there are 10 arcs and Baba's tournament is part of RRA) is off topic. If you don't have to say anything about your thoughts on Cell arc, they don't say anything at all.

Fine, i won't go off topic again after this, but don't be rude. Seriously, why would you so arrogantly write "you would know that if you didn't just watch the dub" like you know which version I watch?

Second, I could just as easily say I finished reading it. You aren't giving proof. You are just saying "because I said so." and demanding that I take you not only at your word, but trust your reading of the scene.

And lastly, the dragon balls used to resurrect Freeza aren't the same dragon balls that were used in the Freeza arc to resurrect the Namekians.

[LuckyCat]

EVERYONE went along with Goku's plan. But then, suddenly, three years later, everyone but Vegeta is suddenly proactive. "Oh, we must stop #17 and #18 BEFORE they're activated." "Oh, we must stop Cell BEFORE he's complete!" They completely and utterly flip flop for no reason except that the plot demands them be responsible now, when before, being responsible would have kept the plot from progressing.

Placed directly in front of the threat (there is a big difference between hearing about a terrible event and confront firsthand with the event) in the absence of Goku (temporarily unable to fight), they decided to act with more meticulously, encouraged by Trunks. I see nothing to outrageous.

Exactly, they thought that equipped with Trunks' knowledge and 3 years to prepare, the androids wouldn't be so scary. By the time Cell came around, they already knew they were way over their heads with his imperfect form(s) alone.

[Gaffer Tape]

Placed directly in front of the threat (there is a big difference between hearing about a terrible event and confront firsthand with the event) in the absence of Goku (temporarily unable to fight), they decided to act with more meticulously, encouraged by Trunks. I see nothing to outrageous.

Exactly, they thought that equipped with Trunks' knowledge and 3 years to prepare, the androids wouldn't be so scary. By the time Cell came around, they already knew they were way over their heads with his imperfect form(s) alone.

Actually, in THAT context, the confrontation is less scary than the reveal. When do they decide they MUST destroy #17 and #18 before they are activated? After they just easily kicked the crap out of two Artificial Humans. When do they decide they MUST stop Cell from becoming complete? After Piccolo proved himself stronger than Cell. When do they decide they're free to just let events play out? After someone from the future told them they WILL DIE! So in the face of their own success, they'll use caution, but when confronted with actual knowledge of the future, they'll take risks. How does that make any sense?!

[ABED]

Interesting, I hadn't realized that in all these years. I guess I just let it wash over me. Not that I didn't see issue that arose, but most of them arose simply due to the problems associated with time travel. It is true, they are gung ho about fighting when they are told by Trunks about their deaths, but try to stop the cyborgs even after they've seen the future isn't exactly as Trunks has stated and they have beaten 19 and 20 with relative ease.

[LuckyCat]

Placed directly in front of the threat (there is a big difference between hearing about a terrible event and confront firsthand with the event) in the absence of Goku (temporarily unable to fight), they decided to act with more meticulously, encouraged by Trunks. I see nothing to outrageous.

Exactly, they thought that equipped with Trunks' knowledge and 3 years to prepare, the androids wouldn't be so scary. By the time Cell came around, they already knew they were way over their heads with his imperfect form(s) alone.

Actually, in THAT context, the confrontation is less scary than the reveal. When do they decide they MUST destroy #17 and #18 before they are activated? After they just easily kicked the crap out of two Artificial Humans. When do they decide they MUST stop Cell from becoming complete? After Piccolo proved himself stronger than Cell. When do they decide they're free to just let events play out? After someone from the future told them they WILL DIE! So in the face of their own success, they'll use caution, but when confronted with actual knowledge of the future, they'll take risks. How does that make any sense?!

That's only because Goku isn't around to give them confidence, as was mentioned by Gorou above.

[Gorou]

Actually, in THAT context, the confrontation is less scary than the reveal. When do they decide they MUST destroy #17 and #18 before they are activated? After they just easily kicked the crap out of two Artificial Humans

At the moment, they already knew that the real threat was not the two androids that Piccolo and Vegeta had destroyed without undue difficulty, but those who were about to be activated. In addition, Goku was no longer around. Do you think he would have agreed with the plan? For me he would fight them, like Vegeta.

When do they decide they MUST stop Cell from becoming complete? After Piccolo proved himself stronger than Cell.

Who? The thing that, absorbing people, became stronger in every minute? Yes, the situation was quite critical.

When do they decide they're free to just let events play out? After someone from the future told them they WILL DIE! So in the face of their own success, they'll use caution, but when confronted with actual knowledge of the future, they'll take risks. How does that make any sense?!

They know that, in a future where Goku died for a heart condition, and where two androids have attacked without any warning, they are all dead.
Ahead of them there a different future: a future where Goku not dies, and where all have been training intensely for 3 years knowing than will face with two beings much stronger than a basic SSJ.
Yes, to me it makes perfect sense.

[Soppa Saia People]

He does say that they all can be revived but only if they died within the past year. But you watch the dub, so you wouldn't know that.

What the fuck dude ? Seriously you look like a massive ass. Well I do arguing with a dub fan can be hard if watch the JPN version but ABED watches the sub and even then that's some serious douchebaggery to have the nerve to just automatically assume he doesn't and you're right.