Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

[Ajay]

Vanished to collect my thoughts over the past few days since I really wasn't in the best frame of mind. Having Microsoft Word's layout burned into retinas from writing over 12,000 words in barely two weeks isn't the funnest thing ever. So I have a lot of things to address!

It was a decent episode; and of all the things that I'm willing to criticise Tadoyoshi Yamamuro for, his pragmatic animation style isn't one of them. It's not verbose or expressive - but it doesn't need to be, and I think that when people get overly het up over that sort of thing that they're sort of missing the point.
<lengthy metaphor>

I'm not sure I quite agree with this. It's not that people criticise Yamamuro for being plain old ketchup, it's that he's more like an off-brand ketchup who went out of date a while ago. It's that all the other ketchups taste a little different with whatever they're put with, but the Yamamuro-brand gives you the same bland flavour every single time. That makes him uninteresting, but that's far from my biggest issue with him. To continue with the metaphor, he faces the biggest criticism because he's the off-brand ketchup that somehow is leading all of the other flavours, while simultaneously mixing himself with the higher quality brands, diluting their overall quality.

Animation isn't really like music in that you have a reference to play off of -- not unless your storyboards are as detailed as manga. I'm absolutely fine with someone playing it straight; I certainly don't need a Tate or Shida to enjoy a piece of work. I simply want someone to play it straight well. The only major difference between that clip and what Yamamuro is capable of is strong direction -- changing up the camera angles to instill a sense of motion. That's pretty much all he needs for me to praise him again on a purely technical level. That, and of course, letting other animators do their thing without being too overbearing.

Disappointed, yes, but I don't expect a world class animation, like Jacob does, with that kind of scheduling they currently have on hands.

While I've certainly calmed my opinion on the episode down a bit, my primary issue is pretty much as Jacob says: I go into episodes expecting the talents associated with the episode to be able to produce at least one genuinely good cut. Seeing what was possible last week, at the end of the Battle of Gods arc, and a few choice moments in the Golden Freeza arc, I just wonder what happened to make this episode to rushed. They pulled in World Trigger staff, Yamamuro was there, Otsuka popped up, too! It had all the makings of an episode that would be genuinely, unwaveringly, unquestionably good from all angles. Instead, it was just, "Yeah, that was okay, I guess... I liked that one bit at the end". I suppose I just wanted the episode to reflect what it should have been on paper.

It seems like most of the fans like 39 more than any other episodes while most of them didn't like 38. Which is kinda disappointing considering that 38 looked like it had much more work put into it. I think it might have more to do more with the story though.

I think you know that I replied to this other day in a pretty shitty way, which I quickly deleted when I realised it wasn't very fair. I think you hit the nail on the head with the last part. Characters being mostly on-model and a good story is usually enough to satisfy a large majority of the fanbase. That's totally fine. I think the story aspect and a few cool moments is what puts this episode up there for me. It's just a really fun thing to watch, even if it's not all that impressive.

I think 39 was a competent episode - nothing flashy, nothing spectacular, but most importantly, nothing too awkwardly out-of-place.

Despite my initial reactions, this is essentially where I've settled at. After falling in love with Tate's episode 38, I was so sure that 39 was going to deliver something genuinely impressive thanks to Ootsuka's presence. I guess that was me being quite naive considering his tweets about feeling overworked; part of me had hoped that meant he was pushing himself to do something really great.

It's a shame that didn't happen, but what we got was pretty serviceable. Its narrative content and mostly competent direction definitely prevented it from slipping into unenjoyable territory. I think I'm ultimately okay with what we got, even if I do thing it's a world below what should really be expected of what is clearly supposed to be a key episode.

[Bansho64]

I think you know that I replied to this other day in a pretty shitty way, which I quickly deleted when I realised it wasn't very fair. I think you hit the nail on the head with the last part. Characters being mostly on-model and a good story is usually enough to satisfy a large majority of the fanbase. That's totally fine. I think the story aspect and a few cool moments is what puts this episode up there for me. It's just a really fun thing to watch, even if it's not all that impressive.

Yeah but even it's enough for the fanbase, it really shouldn't be enough. I appreciate this episode but it seems like the animators really tried last week. It's not really fair that most of them got pushed to the corner after working hard to produce something good just so Yamamuro and some others can come out and animate an episode that barely has any satisfying movement and get praised for it. If ya gave that episode to the guys from last week then I guarantee you that it would've been better. I may not always enjoy Tate's style but even I have eyes wide enough to see that he really isn't getting the credit he deserves.

[JulieYBM]

Production remains behind schedule due to a lack of staff. You cannot catch up when you are constantly falling behind from a lack of anyone sticking around.

[ArchedThunder]

I think it was more than the last part that was good, the first half had these two bits which are pretty good (the first one especially.)



Hopefully Otsuka is working on another episode of Super and has been brought on as an animation supervisor, further improving the schedule of the show.
They are slowly but surely building up a nice amount of animators on the show and things certainly are improving, but I have to wonder if now the bigger issue is everything before the actual animation. Maybe King Ryu and some others should get together and whip out a bunch of scripts and then a bunch of storyboarders should come and storyboard those as fast as possible. That would improve the schedule further, even in regards to animation, wouldn't it? And if it was a filler arc that would even allow the manga to catch up.

[ParkerAL]

I don't really care whether scene is "animated" or not if it just looks good on screen. I have now watched 39 three times and it has nothing to be pointed out IMO. It was nearly flawless episode in every way.

You don't care about the animation in animation?

I don't agree with Greator's sentiment -- Episode 39 was entertaining but far from flawless -- but I do think a case can be made that not every animated show needs complex animation. It depends on what the creators are trying to accomplish.

To cite a weird example, I adore The Rocky and Bullwinkle Show, even though by today's standards it's barely animated. But I don't watch it for the quality of the animation. I watch it for the wry dialogue, clever wordplay, and retro satire. These strengths help it get by on basic animation. Comparatively, slapstick cartoons like Tom and Jerry require complex movement to pull off their physical humor.

Another obscure example that comes to mind is the animation the BBC occasionally uses to recreate missing Doctor Who episodes that were junked back in the 1960s. As stiff as the animation in them can be, they still accomplish their goal to mimic the minimalistic style of live action 60s television, along with the mannerisms of human actors.

Of course, neither of these (admittedly odd) examples are good analogous to Dragon Ball Super. An action Shonen anime needs great animation to make its battles interesting to watch. But that's the kind of show it is -- or at least the kind of show it should be. But it definitely is possible to overlook weak animation when there are other qualities, like artwork, camerawork, and writing, that make up for it.

[Avok]

My main problem with Super is that everything looks bland and plain. I don't care about animation that much, but good effects with a nice composition and proper color palette is what would make DBS good.

I don't know who in the production committee decided not to go with the 2008 OVA style. This scene looks completely amazing, both character desing and color-wise.

Haven't seen ep.39 yet but from the few webm I've watched, there are a couple scenes that look well tho.

[JulieYBM]

I don't agree with Greator's sentiment -- Episode 39 was entertaining but far from flawless -- but I do think a case can be made that not every animated show needs complex animation. It depends on what the creators are trying to accomplish.

Most animation creators outside of Japan don't like animation. Hell, most creators of live action don't even like live action.

To cite a weird example, I adore The Rocky and Bullwinkle Show, even though by today's standards it's barely animated. But I don't watch it for the quality of the animation. I watch it for the wry dialogue, clever wordplay, and retro satire. These strengths help it get by on basic animation. Comparatively, slapstick cartoons like Tom and Jerry require complex movement to pull off their physical humor.

This is going to sound incendiary however I write it, so I'm just going to write it. This is the big problem with Hollywood productions, they're writer-driven. They confuse good filmmaking with good writing and in turn confuse their viewers and critics into thinking "oh, this is well written, so it's a good episode/film". This is not the case. A good script is just a good script. It's not a good episode, it's not a good film. That the production staff did not rise any further really shows in the finished product. The 'basic animation' wouldn't even be an issue if the storyboard artists and key animators decided to do better. It really goes to show the gap between the Japanese and US industry. Japan rose to the challenge of limited cels, time and manpower. The US did not and now our animation industry is all but extinct.

Another obscure example that comes to mind is the animation the BBC occasionally uses to recreate missing Doctor Who episodes that were junked back in the 1960s. As stiff as the animation in them can be, they still accomplish their goal to mimic the minimalistic style of live action 60s television, along with the mannerisms of human actors.

So the project is just a job to them? That sounds about right.

Of course, neither of these (admittedly odd) examples are good analogous to Dragon Ball Super. An action Shonen anime needs great animation to make its battles interesting to watch. But that's the kind of show it is -- or at least the kind of show it should be. But it definitely is possible to overlook weak animation when there are other qualities, like artwork, camerawork, and writing, that make up for it.

That's not really true. Take a look at any Otaku-aimed series that has next to nothing to do with combat. Idol M@ster, Love Lab, Shigatsu wa Kimi no Uso and many others all place emphasis on their directing, animation and coloring to communicate the feelings of the creators. This is probably because the head creators in Japan tend not to be writers but directors and animators. "Oh, this is about fighting, I need to put thought or show interest now" says some incredibly terrible things about a creator.

[ArchedThunder]

Most animation creators outside of Japan don't like animation. Hell, most creators of live action don't even like live action.

Where on Earth did you hear this?

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

Most animation creators outside of Japan don't like animation. Hell, most creators of live action don't even like live action.

Where on Earth did you hear this?

Indeed, from what source did you get it?

[Bansho64]

Most animation creators outside of Japan don't like animation. Hell, most creators of live action don't even like live action.

Well that's a bit of a generalization ain't it?

[JulieYBM]

My crystal ball, which I may or may not have stolen from a woman in black.

Years of watching varied television, reading books and behind-the-scenes accounts have taught me Hollywood is all about the writer, producer or actor. Music, lighting, camera angles, flow, there's very little that directors have mastered, even amongst the supposed masters. Brian De Palma's work for Mission: Impossible--as I watched it in the break room at work--is perhaps the closest I've seen from a big Hollywood production where the cinematography felt even just a little like it was playing a role in transmitting information.

Look at series like The Simpsons with their massive budgets but horrible animation that have been intentionally made worse so that it is only the writing that grabs the attention of the audience.

[Blade]

I'm not sure I quite agree with this. It's not that people criticise Yamamuro for being plain old ketchup, it's that he's more like an off-brand ketchup who went out of date a while ago. It's that all the other ketchups taste a little different with whatever they're put with, but the Yamamuro-brand gives you the same bland flavour every single time. That makes him uninteresting, but that's far from my biggest issue with him. To continue with the metaphor, he faces the biggest criticism because he's the off-brand ketchup that somehow is leading all of the other flavours, while simultaneously mixing himself with the higher quality brands, diluting their overall quality.

So your core arguments are that his work is dated and uninteresting, and that this somehow detracts from the overall quality of the product and lowers the tone?

The latter is something that I can't agree with - his work on Super has been above the (admittedly substandard) overall benchmark. It's true that he's brought nothing to the show that has been knock-out or mindblowing, but I don't think its fair to beat him with that stick. It's like saying: 'ah well, other animators have contributed better stuff, and you're not really setting the world on fire, therefore your stuff sucks'.

A lot has been made of Yamamuro's attention to detail - especially in terms anatomical motion in fight choreography. Sure, it's all pretty rigid and an un-dynamic for Tate or Shida fanatics - but that's the point. Yamamuro goes for a realistic approach, he pays attention to where people's legs and arms should be when they're punching and kicking - and whilst not all of his work quite shines in that respect like his Revival of 'F' level stuff, I don't think that it's fair to criticise him for his pragmatism just because there are more talented people working beneath him. In general, that's something that I don't like to see - how people's opinions towards Yamamuro's wider role, conduct and attitude skews objective criticism of his work. Most of the beef that people have with him are derived from ad hominem arguments - qualms against the man chiefly, and his work by proxy.

Don't get me wrong - I've got plenty of qualms with the guy! My problem with Yamamuro is that, chiefly, that he trades off his status of a franchise stalwart to compound on the seniority that he has managed to assume - despite not really doing a heck of lot to justify said position other than the fact that he's a Dragonball veteran. I just don't feel like he's in it for the right reasons - either creative or strategic. There's just this 'riding-of-the-coattails' attitude about the guy that doesn't sit well with me. In short, I'd hire the guy as an animation supervisor for an episode every few weeks in a heartbeat - but I'd rather someone else be running the show. Dragonball is such a well-loved franchise - so many young animators in the industry were weaned on Dragonball as kids, and I think Toei should have been more forward-thinking when putting together a team to head-up Super. Instead, they went for a member of the 'old guard' who has stuck around like a whelk. I'm not chastising the guy for his loyalty - but I dislike the attitude that he carries.

[A Man named RJ]

My crystal ball, which I may or may not have stolen from a woman in black.

Years of watching varied television, reading books and behind-the-scenes accounts have taught me Hollywood is all about the writer, producer or actor. Music, lighting, camera angles, flow, there's very little that directors have mastered, even amongst the supposed masters. Brian De Palma's work for Mission: Impossible--as I watched it in the break room at work--is perhaps the closest I've seen from a big Hollywood production where the cinematography felt even just a little like it was playing a role in transmitting information.

Look at series like The Simpsons with their massive budgets but horrible animation that have been intentionally made worse so that it is only the writing that grabs the attention of the audience.

As a person who hangs around a LOT of film and animation students, and professionals I can attest to some of this. I do agree there is so much less of an emphasis on the animation nowadays than the plot/ writing. if you want a prime example take a look at how many frame animated cartoons abuse this character design
- "flour sack" head

Spoiler:

- circle eyes
- bean mouth
- somewhere between 3-5 teeth on the same models
- thick lines
- tweenable limbs for Toonboom.


IF you take gumball, Steven Universe, the PPG reboot, flapjack, gravity falls, uncle grandpa, Star vs the forces of evil, and even a couple of Adventure Time characters etc.
I'm relatively certain you could shove them all into one show and they would match character designs. They're designed like that to be easy (and very cheap) to animate. If it's not those designes it's blatant flash.

I've also heard people calling Japan's way (which consists of adapting manga material) backwards/bad, but why exactly? stories with one creator are able to stay on point so much better than stories with multiple. Take my fav cartoon of all time Avatar TLA. it was a very episodic show for the first season and parts of season 2, and each episode had a different feel because sometimes the directing was spectacular, and other times the script and directing weren't (great divide anyone?)

Though i will admit, i rathr prefer the simpson's streamlined look. the animation of the Tracy Ulman era (and season 1) was pretty weak. it was bouncy and whatnot, but the characters has very weird tendancies to be off model at odd times. i can see why they streamlined it - and yes there is a difference between streamlining something thats really hard to keep consistent and "intentionally making the animation worse" in this case it made some of the animation better.

All-in all it always irks me when traditionalist/indoctrinated college students try and say what will and wont get a person hired in a country with a dead animation industry. I love it when people talk shit about a country that actually tried to make something better for itself. We dont even do our 2d animation anymore (only exception I'm remotely aware of is PBS sprout, and this here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_7oZeKBpsE) the vast majority is shipped right off to Korea. but thats just industry what about public expectation? over here in the states the general consensus is that animation is either for kids or Family Guy, no in-between, and it's sad that people have done that but that's the industry we've put forward.

This is the big problem with Hollywood productions, they're writer-driven. They confuse good filmmaking with good writing and in turn confuse their viewers and critics into thinking "oh, this is well written, so it's a good episode/film".

wholeheartedly disagree. Unless we're talking about a Michael Bay film or M. Night Sha-ma-la-ma-ding-dong. a lot of film (this applies to animation to) is conveyed not just through writing, but good acting, good camera setup and shooting, and even the lighting of a particular scene. I've seen this in film reviews all the time where people will say "the [everything else] was good but the script sucked"

Even with the emphasis on writing, if you can adequately convey whats being said onscreen through certain emotional cues then the film is just fine.

[Ajay]

So your core arguments are that his work is dated and uninteresting, and that this somehow detracts from the overall quality of the product and lowers the tone?

The latter is something that I can't agree with - his work on Super has been above the (admittedly substandard) overall benchmark. It's true that he's brought nothing to the show that has been knock-out or mindblowing, but I don't think its fair to beat him with that stick. It's like saying: 'ah well, other animators have contributed better stuff, and you're not really setting the world on fire, therefore your stuff sucks'.

A lot has been made of Yamamuro's attention to detail - especially in terms anatomical motion in fight choreography. Sure, it's all pretty rigid and an un-dynamic for Tate or Shida fanatics - but that's the point. Yamamuro goes for a realistic approach, he pays attention to where people's legs and arms should be when they're punching and kicking - and whilst not all of his work quite shines in that respect like his Revival of 'F' level stuff, I don't think that it's fair to criticise him for his pragmatism just because there are more talented people working beneath him. In general, that's something that I don't like to see - how people's opinions towards Yamamuro's wider role, conduct and attitude skews objective criticism of his work. Most of the beef that people have with him are derived from ad hominem arguments - qualms against the man chiefly, and his work by proxy.

Damn, maybe I should have gone for a more direct approach.

Firstly, I absolutely agree that I would love to have Yamamuro as a regular supervisor, simply because his draconian approach to supervision would certainly help a lot of the far less talented staff working on the series. As much I dislike his character designs (god, they're not what they were), they're here to stay, and I'd rather see those designs than terrible imitations. You either go full Tate or Iseki -- delivering great looking alternative design -- or you just stick to what you know. He would absolutely be great for Super as it stands now, and I won't argue with that.

However, my issue with Yamamuro's work is not to do with my personal distaste for the man, or his difference in style from the likes of Tate or Shida. I fully understand he's about realistic choreography, but there are varying degrees of skill to which that can be done. I've written extensively about this in the past, so forgive me if you've read any of this before:

Yamamuro was once a very good animator. I don't think anyone will ever dispute that. His work on the Majin Vegeta vs Goku fight is some of the coolest stuff in Z. Not only that, some of his cuts for the Z movies were great. My favourite being from Movie 9, where Trunks battles one of Bojack's men. The timing, the camera movement, the impact of the hits are all so powerful. Yet you look at the vast majority of his work in the movies and in Super, and it's just so painfully dull. The camera never moves with the action, and while well choreographed, it's all wasted by rudimentary timing. The reason people say things like my signature is because he rarely instills dynamism into his work -- it is often mechanical to a fault.

To use Street Fighter as another example, the camera is constantly cutting to angles that accentuate the motion on screen. It's just so important, and Yamamuro doesn't seem capable of using it to great effect -- at least not very often. He needs to use creative angles to emphasise his eye for choreography. For all his understanding of martial arts, he seems wildly inconsistent in transferring that to the screen in a convincing manner. It very often feels too lifeless -- like the characters are just being put through the motions by a puppet master. Even on a simpler level, we have never seen current-day Yamamuro pull off something as well composed as this. Don't get me wrong, I'm not using all these examples to say "Oh, others have done it better, therefore he sucks". I'm saying that a lot of this isn't exceptional by many people's standards, and absolutely shouldn't be to an animator who's worked on the series decades -- an animator who was once capable of this.

You can see how this totally hindered Resurrection F's visuals. While there are scenes like this and this, where the camera really breathes life into the scene, most of the film features horribly dull midshots that don't convey any dynamism at all. Piccolo vs Freeza's minions is one of the worst examples of this. All of the character movement is detailed, but you don't feel any of it because the camera is so still. Moreover, it's showcases how Yamamuro seems to averse to "fun". Check out Piccolo's expression throughout all of that cut; it never changes. Even when he's grabbed from behind, you get minimal reaction. It's the lack of tiny details that totally detract from his overall approach. When combined with boring cinematography, you've suddenly lost all impact. Excuse the quality, but compare his work with Chioka's storyboarding in Battle of Gods, where the camera is constantly accentuating the action, and hopefully you'll see the difference; it's night and day.

It seems like only when his hand is forced will he push out something moderately interesting. The base Goku vs Freeza fight in Resurrection F is fantastic, but it's only fantastic because the storyboard heavily copies the work of those who produced the original fight back in Z. As I said, he needs to be directed by someone else to do something interesting.

In the past year alone, we've had this, this, this, and this. There are many more ways to pose a Kamehameha... or maybe just don't do that in the first place? It's boring, bland, and so Yamamuro. Check out how many similar poses and moves there are in Resurrection F. He's got a few tricks up his sleeve, and he uses them over and over and over again.

It's just not about pragmatism or keeping things grounded; he's just not a particularly inspired or exceptional animator anymore. If he were just a regular KA who popped up every now and then, I probably wouldn't even bat an eye at his presence. Perhaps it seems like I judge him harshly because he's slowly assimilated everything animation-related in the series, but it all stems from what you're after: objective criticism of his work.

[Blade]

Firstly, I absolutely agree that I would love to have Yamamuro as a regular supervisor, simply because his draconian approach to supervision would certainly help a lot of the far less talented staff working on the series. As much I dislike his character designs (god, they're not what they were), they're here to stay, and I'd rather see those designs than terrible imitations. You either go full Tate or Iseki -- delivering great looking alternative design -- or you just stick to what you know. He would absolutely be great for Super as it stands now, and I won't argue with that.

However, my issue with Yamamuro's work is not to do with my personal distaste for the man, or his difference in style from the likes of Tate or Shida. I fully understand he's about realistic choreography, but there are varying degrees of skill to which that can be done. I've written extensively about this in the past, so forgive me if you've read any of this before:

Yamamuro was once a very good animator. I don't think anyone will ever dispute that. His work on the Majin Vegeta vs Goku fight is some of the coolest stuff in Z. Not only that, some of his cuts for the Z movies were great. My favourite being from Movie 9, where Trunks battles one of Bojack's men. The timing, the camera movement, the impact of the hits are all so powerful. Yet you look at the vast majority of his work in the movies and in Super, and it's just so painfully dull. The camera never moves with the action, and while well choreographed, it's all wasted by rudimentary timing. The reason people say things like my signature is because he rarely instills dynamism into his work -- it is often mechanical to a fault.

To use Street Fighter as another example, the camera is constantly cutting to angles that accentuate the motion on screen. It's just so important, and Yamamuro doesn't seem capable of using it to great effect -- at least not very often. He needs to use creative angles to emphasise his eye for choreography. For all his understanding of martial arts, he seems wildly inconsistent in transferring that to the screen in a convincing manner. It very often feels too lifeless -- like the characters are just being put through the motions by a puppet master. Even on a simpler level, we have never seen current-day Yamamuro pull off something as well composed as this. Don't get me wrong, I'm not using all these examples to say "Oh, others have done it better, therefore he sucks". I'm saying that a lot of this isn't exceptional by many people's standards, and absolutely shouldn't be to an animator who's worked on the series decades -- an animator who was once capable of this.

You can see how this totally hindered Resurrection F's visuals. While there are scenes like this and this, where the camera really breathes life into the scene, most of the film features horribly dull midshots that don't convey any dynamism at all. Piccolo vs Freeza's minions is one of the worst examples of this. All of the character movement is detailed, but you don't feel any of it because the camera is so still. Moreover, it's showcases how Yamamuro seems to averse to "fun". Check out Piccolo's expression throughout all of that cut; it never changes. Even when he's grabbed from behind, you get minimal reaction. It's the lack of tiny details that totally detract from his overall approach. When combined with boring cinematography, you've suddenly lost all impact. Excuse the quality, but compare his work with Chioka's storyboarding in Battle of Gods, where the camera is constantly accentuating the action, and hopefully you'll see the difference; it's night and day.

It seems like only when his hand is forced will he push out something moderately interesting. The base Goku vs Freeza fight in Resurrection F is fantastic, but it's only fantastic because the storyboard heavily copies the work of those who produced the original fight back in Z. As I said, he needs to be directed by someone else to do something interesting.

I think one of the main situational differences that I see between his old, more adventurous style, and his modern output is the nature of his role and seniority. He picks and chooses what he puts his hand to these days, and probably feels that he has less to prove. I'm not saying that's a good thing - nor one which really excuses the perceived stagnation of his output, but it's a relative benchmark against himself, which, in the wider context, shouldn't be interchangeable with saying that his current work is bad - because it isn't.

Moreover, I think that his modern leanings are more indicative of a wider problem in the franchise, where everything has been regurgitated to the nth degree, and at every opportunity, Toei, Shueisha and Bandai are going for the nostalgia-play. We just don't know what Yamamuro's modus operandi is in regard to that from the people who are planning the strategic direction of the franchise above him, or whether, indeed, he actually was hired into his current role specificity to retain that feel and aesthetic from old Dragonball. For all we know, he's a dinosaur who has been hired to be a dinosaur.

For example, like you rightly allude to, the 'Base Goku' sequence in Revenge of F is pretty heavy in the homage domain. If you consider this from that angle, it says quite a lot about how Yamamuro is viewed when it's not uncommon for people to, essentially, mitigate his successes. The thought trail of 'yeah, this was good - but it was only good because ___' is perhaps little bit harsh, when I doubt that someone would reverse-engineer the work of someone like Naotoshi Shida in the same way.

In the past year alone, we've had this, this, this, and this. There are many more ways to pose a Kamehameha... or maybe just don't do that in the first place? It's boring, bland, and so Yamamuro. Check out how many similar poses and moves there are in Resurrection F. He's got a few tricks up his sleeve, and he uses them over and over and over again.

It's just not about pragmatism or keeping things grounded; he's just not a particularly inspired or exceptional animator anymore. If he were just a regular KA who popped up every now and then, I probably wouldn't even bat an eye at his presence. Perhaps it seems like I judge him harshly because he's slowly assimilated everything animation-related in the series, but it all stems from what you're after: objective criticism of his work.

I accept that Yamamuro has dipped into that Kamehameha pose a few times too many, and what you demonstrate does, I think rightly, point to him being stuck in a rut - but I try and take a wider view and be a little bit forgiving. Because, I mean, after all, when Toriyama reuses poses, gags or styles (especially in regard to facial expressions, hair styles and anything mecha), on this part of the Internet, we tend to fawn over how the charm in his repetitiveness is 'so Toriyama'. And really, I think it just ties back to the 'black cloud' that hangs over Yamamuro because of his character. I think people are instinctively less forgiving about anything he does, and I feel pretty qualified in the assertion that, for the most part, that people roll their eyes when they see his name attached to something before they've even seen his contributions.

I'm not saying that's wrong, or demanding complete objectivity, but I think it's something to be cognisant about.

[kinisking]

Lol I must be crazy or something Ajay. That comparison pic you did of the yamamuros change in 20 years doesn't have the same impact on me. Ginyu > the trio. And I prefer the other dudes old work. Gogeta > goku

[dbgtFO]

Lol I must be crazy or something Ajay. That comparison pic you did of the yamamuros change in 20 years doesn't have the same impact on me. Ginyu > the trio. And I prefer the other dudes old work. Gogeta > goku

You have misunderstood. Shida is the guy, who did the trio and the Ginyu Force, while Yamamuro did Gogeta and BoG Goku.
So just like Ajay, you prefer Shidas New work to his old and you prefer Yamamuro's old work over his New stuff.

[Bansho64]

Lol I must be crazy or something Ajay. That comparison pic you did of the yamamuros change in 20 years doesn't have the same impact on me. Ginyu > the trio. And I prefer the other dudes old work. Gogeta > goku

That's what it was supposed to show. The Ginyu one is supposed to be better than the other picture.

[Noah]

Spoiler:

Don't know why, but I really lol'd at this "pretty" Goku shot

Who said it was pretty? I specifically linked that as an example of art that deserves to be criticised heavily.

Geez, man... I just said "pretty" because it remembers me generic anime boys:

Spoiler:

[kinisking]

Lol I must be crazy or something Ajay. That comparison pic you did of the yamamuros change in 20 years doesn't have the same impact on me. Ginyu > the trio. And I prefer the other dudes old work. Gogeta > goku

You have misunderstood. Shida is the guy, who did the trio and the Ginyu Force, while Yamamuro did Gogeta and BoG Goku.
So just like Ajay, you prefer Shidas New work to his old and you prefer Yamamuro's old work over his New stuff.

Oh I thought it was the other way around! WOW. I totally get his point now. Damn... That gogeta one is so pretty too..