Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

[Wezenheim]

Chioka's directing was much, much better in Battle of Gods in my opinion, and it wasn't even close. Yamamuro just didn't play with the exciting/interesting camera angles as much! I really wish Chioka would help with a Super episode sometime :/ at the very least I hope he is working on a new film.

[Sodhi]

Probably Yashima's best episode, I mean there was still plenty of Yashima weirdness but it was pretty damn solid from start to finish. Kinda surprising to see such a small amount of key animators for this episode after the past 2, but it makes sense.

Yashima always does most of the episode himself. He is a kind of person hired to do episodes as quickly as possible to give other animators more time.

[Bullza]

But the same reviews commented on how good the animation is

"Beautiful artwork makes our heroes look more stalwart than ever; particularly notable are Tien Shinhan’s few scenes, using all sorts of highlights and shading that make him seem as if he was carefully hand-drawn."

" The care taken with this production signifies that the producers know exactly how precious the legacy of Dragon Ball is to its diehard fans."

"A feast for the eyes for the fans of the series"

"Resurrection 'F' features enough beautifully animated butt-kicking to warrant a watch."

"It has beautiful visuals/character design"

"DBZ: Resurrection 'F' is a fast-paced film with tons of action and great animation"

"Which is to say that only hardcore fans of the series will love with “Resurrection ‘F’” has to offer them; everyone else will likely just appreciate the animation."

"attractive visual treatment, which in some cases makes up for the simplicity of the story or the lack of originality"

"But more than that, it is a scene with some of the best animated fight choreography ever to show up on the silver screen"

"the skill of the cinematography overshadows the questionable quality of the CG"

" when it is purely 2D it looks spectacular. Each character looks gorgeous and on-model in every scene. As mentioned before the large fight between the Z-Fighters and Frieza’s soldiers demonstrates a fluidity found in recent digital animation, and it is thrilling to see the Dragon Ball characters translated wonderfully into the modern era without losing their sense of style."

"The animation is crisp, everything is colorful, and it just looks so beautiful."

"Dragon Ball Z: Resurrection 'F' is a visually marvelous and entertaining installment."

"beautiful animation that even rivals the predecessor."

So what criticism?

[Bansho64]

Could we just move this to another thread? I hate to be a hypocrite but we've had thousands of discussions about Yamamuro and it's starting to get tiring.

[Wezenheim]

Yeah, it can be pretty exhausting to go around in circles, although I admittedly find it interesting when new opinions are brought forth.

I don't think citing the opinion of critics is a good way to back up your own arguments though.

[Ajay]

W-What are you doing pasting quotes for? You've clearly misunderstood what I was saying.

I'm talking about criticisms in general, not critics alone. A layman isn't going to pick at the underlying problems of a film from a single viewing. I walked away from Resurrection 'F' the first time around thinking it was wonderfully animated. It was only when I revisited it, and with a better understanding of what exactly makes for good animation, that I started to see that it wasn't quite as good as I originally thought. I walked away from Battle of Gods barely even acknowledging how well animated it was, too. Unless you go in actively looking for it, you're only going to recall the occasional standout moment. When you head back in there with a critical eye, you'll spot the flaws immediately. It's no different to getting caught up in the hype of a Super episode, only to head back later and realise it was the surprise of the spectacle that impressed you, and what remains isn't too hot.

But either way, that's besides the point.

Your argument was that because everyday fans and critics enjoyed it, that somehow means any criticisms levied against it "don't make sense". Which quite frankly is utter nonsense. The film is flawed in many areas, and they've been discussed into ad nauseum on this forum alone. This isn't any different.

Head to any sakuga-orientated forum and you'll find the same criticisms with ease -- or you won't, because mediocrity isn't worth discussing.

Could we just move this to another thread? I hate to be a hypocrite but we've had thousands of discussions about Yamamuro and it's starting to get tiring?

Nah, we're done with this utterly pointless conversation. If anyone else wants to debate it another thread, by all means. I'm out. I kinda hoped a Yashima episode would save me from baffling comments. Guess not.

[Bansho64]

I'm starting to think Yashima supervising the comedy episodes ain't half bad. This episode was alright. His Supreme Kai drawings were hilariously bad though

[JulieYBM]

It would help a lot if Yashima wasn't the only fast animator the series had on hand. Bring on two other solo key animation specialists to length the rotation and there would be less of a weight on the other episodes.

[kinisking]

Yashima did epsiode 22 right? I thought that was a pretty good looking episode. The beginning of this episode was gorgeous also

[JulieYBM]

Yashima did epsiode 22 right? I thought that was a pretty good looking episode. The beginning of this episode was gorgeous also

Yashima was the animation supervisor for Episode #22, yes. As opposed to other series he is not working alone, however, so not every cut necessarily has his influence.

[Sodhi]

Cant wait for toma
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-0pf3JHKCY

[The Doc]

Yashima did epsiode 22 right? I thought that was a pretty good looking episode. The beginning of this episode was gorgeous also

True, but I honestly think 22 is his only good looking episode. Every other episode of his has so many distractedly bad moments, and they each maintain at the most subpar quality from beginning to end, they usually end up bumming me out. Although 22 is the only exception, I think that episode looks totally fine, and if anything it feels like he pulls out the best of his style for a majority of it, and it really adds to the episode.

I haven't watched 40 yet, but I haven't seen too many complaints about it, so hopefully it's around the similar level of quality that 22 offered.

[Bullza]

Your argument was that because everyday fans and critics enjoyed it, that somehow means any criticisms levied against it "don't make sense".

You said that he was nowhere near good enough to storyboard, direct and supervise an entire film. Yet he did such a thing with Resurrection F and the movie was financially successful, well liked, got good reviews and was nominated for an award. Reviews found through Rotten Tomatoes praise the movies animation and I've seen countless comments from people on Youtube and other reviews from people who've seen the movie comment on how good the animation is. People that have not liked the movie have praised the animation.

Battle of Gods didn't get nominated for a Japanese Academy Prize award but Resurrection F was. So obviously he is good enough isn't he?

So what criticism is there in general? Are you just talking about a very small group of people on here looking at it through a microscope nitpicking it or something? Because the consensus is that the animation is very good, opposite of what the consensus has been for Super at times.

[PMD]

Yashima, not surprising at all. He's one of the worst, although episodes 22 and 34 are not that bad (especially 22).

Let's just move on and wait for Toma's work in episode 41.

[Ajay]

Are you just talking about a very small group of people on here looking at it through a microscope nitpicking it or something? Because the consensus is that the animation is very good.

Not through a microscope. But yes, a small group of people who understand what makes for top tier animation. As for directing, where have you been? One of the most common complaints is that the movie loses all steam once the pair transform. That's all on Yamamuro.

But most importantly, if there's one thing Super has proved, it's that the general consensus hasn't got a damn clue what they're talking about. They'll settle for bland on-model mediocrity and call it "amazing".

Remember episode 35 where the thing barely was animated?! That was called top tier entirely because it was well-drawn. The general public honestly don't have a fucking clue.

Maybe that sounds pretentious, but fuck me, rightfully so. I full on cringe reading asinine comments like that. I'm embarrassed that that's their standard.

Resurrection F isn't badly animated, but it's no masterpiece. Watch any One Piece film, and the difference in quality will astound you. The latest Z films -- including Battle of Gods -- are hardly movie tier works in comparison to Toei's other offerings.

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

But most importantly, if there's one thing Super has proved, it's that the general consensus hasn't got a damn clue what they're talking about. They'll settle for bland on-model mediocrity and call it "amazing".

The general consensus basically think that on-model art = good animation. They refer to art as animation (and to be honest I used to do that as well until I did my research). It's just a case of people being ill-informed.

Kinda breaks my heart to see most fans hate on Naoki Tate's work only because it's not on-model. My only gripe with his animation is the overuse of motion blur but other than that the guy is great.

[JulieYBM]

The 'general consensus' is the general consensus because it doesn't take any effort, knowledge or thought to formulate an educated opinion one can accurately describe. The fights in the last two Dragon Ball films--sans Shida's bit--have been totally held by back Yamamuro Tadayoshi's hand. Animators who produce far better material for television series or other films wind up producing their most boring work. That's a pretty big sign that your director, storyboard artist and chief animation supervisor needs to go. Kami to Kami had Takahashi Yuuya, Kan'no Yoshihiro, Yamashita Taka'aki, Ishigami Hiromi, Shida Naotoshi, Oonishi Ryou, Hamano Yuu'ichi, Shishido Nozomu and Takara Isamu doing key animation. Fukkatsu no F had Urata Yukihiro, Takahashi Yuuya, Ootsuka Ken, Ishizuka Katsumi, Shimizu Hiroshi, Nishino Takeshi, Eguchi Hisashi, Hayashi Yuuki, and Watanabe Koudai doing key animation. All of them produce great, exciting animation elsewhere yet when assembled under Yamamuro have turned in nothing resembling their usual selves. Shida and Oonishi were the two animators to barely escape from that for their parts in the 2013 film. Eguchi was outright told he could do whatever he wanted only to have his work completely changed.

"It won awards!" doesn't mean shit when you don't have an intelligent, researched and respectable argument behind the criteria for the award.

[FortuneSSJ]

Overall Toei did a good job with this tournament. I was expecting the worst, but I enjoyed it. Most fights were too short, which was frustating though.
The only fights I think to be "perfect" were Vegeta vs Magetta and Goku vs Hit.

A shame Shida left the Dragon Ball train. He didn't do anything in ROF (both Movie and Super) and didn't do anything in this tournament either. I was expecting something from him in the final battle, but nop.

While One Piece Dressrosa tournament had like 2/3 cuts from him. I need my lawyer!

[JulieYBM]

Shida is working on One Piece Episode #739, too.

Archah, who maintains Animator's Corner, translated a bit from this Yamamuro Tadayoshi interview. Mind you, he's translated the Spanish part.

Ok, the question of 21:51
Commentator: He has worked both shows and movies. It's different to work in a show or a movie? What's his preference and why?
Yamamuro: The difference is that with TV shows, every episode takes about one month and a half, and around 3.500 sheets are drawn. However, in a movie, it's around 15.000 sheets but you have about one year and a half, including the script. I think I prefer movies than TV shows.

After that:
Commentator: I'm sorry for the next question, but it's something that Twitter users really want to know. What do you think of the controvery that Dragon Ball Super episode 5 has generated?
Yamamuro: It's just that the animation is movement. Someone just got an action cut and put on Internet a bad frame, but the right thing is to evaluate the global scene in movement.

That one and a half month period is for series that are typically on schedule, though. Dragon Ball Super isn't particularly on schedule, hence the horrible animation.

[Ajay]

Though I do think episode 5's first half was unquestionably bad, Yamamuro definitely hits the nail on the head with his comments.

"Animation is movement".

I sure wish Super's general audience were a little more cognisant of that.