FTW395 wrote:Bit off-topic, but was it ever stated that Whis was stronger than Beerus in the Dragonball Super anime? It was made clear that he's stronger than beerus, both in the movie and the manga, but I can't remember this being shown in the anime.
Bulma asks Whis if he's stronger than Beerus, and he says something like "well, I wonder about that?".
Oh Jesus Christ! Now we don't even know that for sure in Super. I just..I can't even...
We already have people saying Beerus used around 10% of his full power to one shot a .5% Rageta and somehow still less then SSBxkkx10.
Chiki wrote:As I've said 100 times already, Hit is weaker than Champa, but Hit could defeat Champa because of the Tokitobashi which is a cheap ability.
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Chiki wrote:As I've said 100 times already, Hit is weaker than Champa, but Hit could defeat Champa because of the Tokitobashi which is a cheap ability.
Chiki wrote:
Everyone on this thread already knew about this statement since the start of April.
As I've said 100 times already, Hit is weaker than Champa, but Hit could defeat Champa because of the Tokitobashi which is a cheap ability.
No he couldn't. Champa openly stated Tokitoboshi is no match for God of Destruction. If Hit could beat Champa, he would've done so, no need to enter the tournament. He could do a robbery with ease
If you think Champa is bragging, remember Toriyama's interview again. And again. Until you never forget
Beerus openly challenged Goku to fight Hakaishin, if nobody noticed
Quoting the interview again, for those who don't have the best memory
Toyotarō:
… I get the feeling I’ve just heard something amazing (laughs). Lord Beerus and Whis turn up in Dragon Ball Super, and have become an unsurpassable wall for Goku and the gang. What do the two of them mean to you?
Toriyama:
Well… First off, right now I don’t have any plans for Goku and Vegeta to surpass Beerus and Whis.
Last edited by Faisal Shourov on Sun Apr 24, 2016 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Toyotarō: … I get the feeling I’ve just heard something amazing (laughs). Lord Beerus and Whis turn up in Dragon Ball Super, and have become an unsurpassable wall for Goku and the gang. What do the two of them mean to you?
Toriyama: Well… First off, right now I don’t have any plans for Goku and Vegeta to surpass Beerus and Whis.
Chiki wrote:As I've said 100 times already, Hit is weaker than Champa, but Hit could defeat Champa because of the Tokitobashi which is a cheap ability.
That doesn't mean anything. He was pissed and people say things they don't mean all the time when they're pissed.
Did you trust Yamcha when he said he's the strongest fighter on the boat in Episode 6?
What do you mean it doesn't mean anything? It mean what its exactly supposed to mean: Hit's Time-Skip ability doesn't mean shit to Champa, he'll still kill Hit.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
He didn't mean "Tokitobashi is no match for me!" because he was pissed and he wanted to kill Hit for losing. It's like when, say, I told my mom "I'm going to kill you!" for breaking my Wii U and don't end up doing it.
Tokitobashi is really cheap and there are no counters to it. Logically, Champa wouldn't have been able to do anything at all to Hit. Doesn't matter if Champa is stronger than Hit. Tokitobashi is OP as hell.
Chiki wrote:Tokitobashi is really cheap and there are no counters to it.
Expect for when Goku countered it. Many times.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Chiki wrote:Tokitobashi is really cheap and there are no counters to it.
Expect for when Goku countered it. Many times.
Watch the battle more carefully. Yes, that was the 0.1 second one, and only after watching Vegeta get owned. He didn't figure out how to counter the 0.2 one in time, and then it improved to 0.5 seconds before he could even figure it out. That's why he had to use Kaioken to begin with.
Champa wouldn't have been able to do anything against Hit's constantly improved Tokitobashi which is over 0.5 seconds long as of Episode 40. Also 0.5 seconds is too long for Tokitobashi to be countered the way Goku did it regardless.
Doesn't matter how powerful Champa is if the technique is too good.
Chiki wrote:
Doesn't matter how powerful Champa is if the technique is too good.
Except it matters, that's why Hit was promised to have the Cube. If it didn't matter, Champa would be dead and Hit would run away with the Cube. Forget the tournament, why would Hit fight for somebody he can beat? Logic
Toyotarō: … I get the feeling I’ve just heard something amazing (laughs). Lord Beerus and Whis turn up in Dragon Ball Super, and have become an unsurpassable wall for Goku and the gang. What do the two of them mean to you?
Toriyama: Well… First off, right now I don’t have any plans for Goku and Vegeta to surpass Beerus and Whis.
Chiki wrote:
Doesn't matter how powerful Champa is if the technique is too good.
Except it matters, that's why Hit was promised to have the Cube. If it didn't matter, Champa would be dead and Hit would run away with the Cube. Forget the tournament, why would Hit fight for somebody he can beat? Logic
He can't beat Vados. Logic
Also I doubt 0.1 Tokitobashi Hit could defeat Champa. 0.5 though.. probably.
Also I doubt 0.1 Tokitobashi Hit could defeat Champa. 0.5 though.. probably.
What makes you think he can't beat Vados if he could beat Champa? Vados hasn't shown resistance to time stop
Toyotarō: … I get the feeling I’ve just heard something amazing (laughs). Lord Beerus and Whis turn up in Dragon Ball Super, and have become an unsurpassable wall for Goku and the gang. What do the two of them mean to you?
Toriyama: Well… First off, right now I don’t have any plans for Goku and Vegeta to surpass Beerus and Whis.
Chiki wrote:
Doesn't matter how powerful Champa is if the technique is too good.
Except it matters, that's why Hit was promised to have the Cube. If it didn't matter, Champa would be dead and Hit would run away with the Cube. Forget the tournament, why would Hit fight for somebody he can beat? Logic
He can't beat Vados. Logic
Also I doubt 0.1 Tokitobashi Hit could defeat Champa. 0.5 though.. probably.
Why can't he beat Vados? I the Time-Skip ability is as OP as you believe than he can really take on and kill anyone, since there is no way to counter it, according to you, even though Goku found a way to counter it several times.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
After many weeks of careful calculations, fact checking and several pounds of considerable cocaine, I have come to the only logical power hierarchy possible for Dragon Ball Super as of episode 40:
Spoiler:
R
E
T
A
R
D
E
D
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
Lord Beerus wrote:Why can't he beat Vados? I the Time-Skip ability is as OP as you believe than he can really take on and kill anyone, since there is no way to counter it, according to you, even though Goku found a way to counter it several times.
Given that Whis and Vados can also control time, I think Tokitobashi might not work on them. Alternatively, they could figure out Hit's movements by going back in time whenever they were attacked, so that eventually they could figure out the perfect way to outpredict and defeat Hit.
Goku can counter 0.1 Tokitobashi. There is absolutely no evidence that he can counter 0.5 or better (he wasn't able to, actually).
Lord Beerus wrote:Why can't he beat Vados? I the Time-Skip ability is as OP as you believe than he can really take on and kill anyone, since there is no way to counter it, according to you, even though Goku found a way to counter it several times.
Given that Whis and Vados can also control time, I think Tokitobashi might not work on them. Alternatively, they could figure out Hit's movements by going back in time whenever they were attacked, so that eventually they could figure out the perfect way to outpredict and defeat Hit.
Goku can counter 0.1 Tokitobashi. There is absolutely no evidence that he can counter 0.5 or better (he wasn't able to, actually).
Time stop has nothing to do with time reversal. It's like saying Superman is immune to time-stop because he can time travel. Different application of time. Hit could kill Vados even before she attempted to reverse time, by your logic
Toyotarō: … I get the feeling I’ve just heard something amazing (laughs). Lord Beerus and Whis turn up in Dragon Ball Super, and have become an unsurpassable wall for Goku and the gang. What do the two of them mean to you?
Toriyama: Well… First off, right now I don’t have any plans for Goku and Vegeta to surpass Beerus and Whis.
Lord Beerus wrote:Why can't he beat Vados? I the Time-Skip ability is as OP as you believe than he can really take on and kill anyone, since there is no way to counter it, according to you, even though Goku found a way to counter it several times.
Given that Whis and Vados can also control time, I think Tokitobashi might not work on them. Alternatively, they could figure out Hit's movements by going back in time whenever they were attacked, so that eventually they could figure out the perfect way to outpredict and defeat Hit.
Goku can counter 0.1 Tokitobashi. There is absolutely no evidence that he can counter 0.5 or better (he wasn't able to, actually).
When was that ever confirmed?
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Lord Beerus wrote:Why can't he beat Vados? I the Time-Skip ability is as OP as you believe than he can really take on and kill anyone, since there is no way to counter it, according to you, even though Goku found a way to counter it several times.
Given that Whis and Vados can also control time, I think Tokitobashi might not work on them. Alternatively, they could figure out Hit's movements by going back in time whenever they were attacked, so that eventually they could figure out the perfect way to outpredict and defeat Hit.
Goku can counter 0.1 Tokitobashi. There is absolutely no evidence that he can counter 0.5 or better (he wasn't able to, actually).
Time stop has nothing to do with time reversal. It's like saying Superman is immune to time-stop because he can time travel. Different application of time. Hit could kill Vados even before she attempted to reverse time, by your logic
I'd like to give you some friendly advice: please don't accuse others of being illogical when your own posts are incredibly poorly thought out. You say that Hit should be able to steal the cube by defeating Champa. And this is supposed to be a problem with my argument. You conveniently forget that Vados exists, which is hilarious. I'm not trying to insult you here or be rude, but please think more carefully before you post from now on. I want to have a good argument; I don't want to make trivial arguments which are obvious to everyone in the world.
Dragonball logic is different from real life logic. Tokitobashi didn't work on SSB x10 Goku because Goku was "too strong" for it. Maybe Tokitobashi won't work on Whis/Vados because they also have time control? It's certainly something I can see happening, but that's why I offered the alternate argument.
Second, how do we know Hit could kill Vados before she attempted to reverse time? We don't know Hit's full power yet.
Finally: how do you think Vados and Champa can defeat Hit? LOL
When was that ever confirmed?
Whis says himself "I'm surprised there's someone who can control time apart from me!" in ep 38.
Last edited by Chiki on Sun Apr 24, 2016 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ekrolo2 wrote:After many weeks of careful calculations, fact checking and several pounds of considerable cocaine, I have come to the only logical power hierarchy possible for Dragon Ball Super as of episode 40:
Spoiler:
R
E
T
A
R
D
E
D
Lol, agreed.
I just have it like this:
Whis/Vados
Beers/Champa
Super Saiyan Blue Goku/Vegeta/Hit/Golden Freeza
Super Saiyan Goku/Super Saiyan Vegeta/Magetta/Super Saiyan Cabba
Frost/Piccolo
Base Goku/Base Vegeta/Base Cabba/Freeza
Don't care
That's how I see it now.
Don't even care about anything else.
"First I whip it out! Then I thrust it! With great force! Every angle...! It penetrates! Until...! With great strength...! I... ram it in! In the end... We are all satisfied... And you are set free...!" ~Dante~
ekrolo2 wrote:After many weeks of careful calculations, fact checking and several pounds of considerable cocaine, I have come to the only logical power hierarchy possible for Dragon Ball Super as of episode 40:
Spoiler:
R
E
T
A
R
D
E
D
Lol, agreed.
I just have it like this:
Whis/Vados
Beers/Champa
Super Saiyan Blue Goku/Vegeta/Hit/Golden Freeza
Super Saiyan Goku/Super Saiyan Vegeta/Magetta/Super Saiyan Cabba
Frost/Piccolo
Base Goku/Base Vegeta/Base Cabba/Freeza
Don't care
That's how I see it now.
Don't even care about anything else.
The manga confirmed that Frost is weaker than Frieza when Goku told Frost that he could become stronger by training.
