Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Faisal Shourov]

Well.. I just reread Chapter 6, and I didn't see a single speed feat. I did see a very impressive physical feat though; the guy kicked a planet apart LOL.

Champa busting 4 planets by bullrushing in a single panel.

Hit has zero speed feat so this one alone will suffice. I am not even scaling Champa from Whis galaxy crossing feat which puts Champa at hundreds of billion x FTL. Can Hit even survive in space?

Statements and feat wise, Champa demolishes.

[Chiki]

Champa busting 4 panels by bullrushing in a single panel.

Erm, we have much more impressive feats than that, like Whis's insane speed, but ok.

Anyway, Hit could have just used Tokitobashi while Champa was charging up his ki balls if Hit really wanted to fight Champa. Hit wouldn't dare fight Champa though as he's the only way he can go back to Universe 6. Of course Hit looked worried. Champa was his only way to go back home. If he somehow managed to defeat Champa, he'd still have to deal with Vados.

[Faisal Shourov]

Champa busting 4 panels by bullrushing in a single panel.

Erm, we have much more impressive feats than that, like Whis's insane speed, but ok.

Anyway, Hit could have just used Tokitobashi while Champa was charging up his ki balls if Hit really wanted to fight Champa. Hit wouldn't dare fight Champa though as he's the only way he can go back to Universe 6. Of course Hit looked worried. Champa was his only way to go back home. If he somehow managed to defeat Champa, he'd still have to deal with Vados.

I also stated in my previous post about the Whis speed (which Beerus and Champa directly scales to, Beerus is exactly 3/4th as fast as Whis)

If Hit tried to fight Champa, a serious Champa would knock the daylight out of him with 1 punch. Remember what Vados said? Beerus and Champa should never fight each other, it would destroy both Sixth and Seventh Universe. Champa is on par with Skyfathers in Marvel, closing in on abstracts. He's far above Hit's paygrade.

[Saiyan007]

Hit has zero speed feat so this one alone will suffice.

Well Hit get's scaling from keeping up with Goku who get's scaling from Beerus who is comparable to Whis staff which can cross a universe in less than 3 hours

I am not even scaling Champa from Whis galaxy crossing feat which puts Champa at hundreds of billion x FTL.

Whis has a better feat as i mentioned above

Can Hit even survive in space?

actually he can when he fought Frost he was outside the dome which is in space

Statements and feat wise, Champa demolishes.

actually he does when he fought Frost he was outide the dome which is in space

Statements and feat wise, Champa demolishes.

I agree Champa wins but just had to correct some things you said

[Chiki]

Champa busting 4 panels by bullrushing in a single panel.

Erm, we have much more impressive feats than that, like Whis's insane speed, but ok.

Anyway, Hit could have just used Tokitobashi while Champa was charging up his ki balls if Hit really wanted to fight Champa. Hit wouldn't dare fight Champa though as he's the only way he can go back to Universe 6. Of course Hit looked worried. Champa was his only way to go back home. If he somehow managed to defeat Champa, he'd still have to deal with Vados.

I also stated in my previous post about the Whis speed (which Beerus and Champa directly scales to, Beerus is exactly 3/4th as fast as Whis)

If Hit tried to fight Champa, a serious Champa would knock the daylight out of him with 1 punch. Remember what Vados said? Beerus and Champa should never fight each other, it would destroy both Sixth and Seventh Universe. Champa is on par with Skyfathers in Marvel, closing in on abstracts. He's far above Hit's paygrade.

Cipher already told you why SSB x10 Goku is stronger than Champa and Beerus in terms of raw power. If Goku couldn't OHKO Hit with one punch, there is absolutely no way Beerus or Champa could.

I don't doubt that Champa and Beerus are strong. In fact I think they're stronger than Hit. The problem is that I think Yamcha with Tokitobashi and Hit's fighting style could defeat Nappa and Saiyan Saga Vegeta easily. It's not about strength, it's about technique.

[Saiyan007]

Cipher already told you why SSB x10 Goku is stronger than Champa and Beerus in terms of raw power.

Except they're not.

1.Toriyama already said he has no plans for Goku or Vegeta to surpass Beerus or Whis

2.Beerus openly challenged Goku to fight him after he saw what he did against hit

If Goku couldn't OHKO Hit with one punch, there is absolutely no way Beerus or Champa could.

They could because thier much stronger than Goku

The problem is that I think Yamcha with Tokitobashi and Hit's fighting style could defeat Nappa and Saiyan Saga Vegeta easily.

Yamcha from the Android arc wouldn't need that to beat Nappa,but Nappa from the saiyan arc would break his fists on Nappa and Vegeta.

It's not about strength, it's about technique.

You need the strength as well if someone was made out of steel do you think you could hit thier vital points without breaking your bones first?

[Faisal Shourov]

Cipher already told you why SSB x10 Goku is stronger than Champa and Beerus in terms of raw power. If Goku couldn't OHKO Hit with one punch, there is absolutely no way Beerus or Champa could.

I don't doubt that Champa and Beerus are strong. In fact I think they're stronger than Hit. The problem is that I think Yamcha with Tokitobashi and Hit's fighting style could defeat Nappa and Saiyan Saga Vegeta easily. It's not about strength, it's about technique.

And Cipher is absolutely wrong, since he has contradicted Toriyama's words and the anime by saying that Goku surpassed Beerus. His headcanon is not fact, Toriyama's words are Hit was scared shit when Champa got serious. Hit's technique was able to beat Goku because Goku was weak. Champa would blitz the daylight out of Hit if they fought for real. Champa >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Goku in speed. It's not even comparable.

The technique you speak was trashed by Champa directly, and Hit knew that.

[Chiki]

Cipher already told you why SSB x10 Goku is stronger than Champa and Beerus in terms of raw power. If Goku couldn't OHKO Hit with one punch, there is absolutely no way Beerus or Champa could.

I don't doubt that Champa and Beerus are strong. In fact I think they're stronger than Hit. The problem is that I think Yamcha with Tokitobashi and Hit's fighting style could defeat Nappa and Saiyan Saga Vegeta easily. It's not about strength, it's about technique.

And Cipher is absolutely wrong, since he has contradicted Toriyama's words and the anime by saying that Goku surpassed Beerus. His headcanon is not fact, Toriyama's words are Hit was scared shit when Champa got serious. Hit's technique was able to beat Goku because Goku was weak. Champa would blitz the daylight out of Hit if they fought for real. Champa >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Goku in speed. It's not even comparable.

The technique you speak was trashed by Champa directly, and Hit knew that.

So do you think USSJ Trunks has surpassed Perfect Cell? Just a yes/no question please.

[Speedster]

Spoiler:

Champa busting 4 planets by bullrushing in a single panel.

That is a decent speed feat though not an impressive one unless we knew timeframes. That being said even though we don't know the exact timeframes it can't be more than a minute from planet to planet. Interplanetary distances within a solar system vary but even if we lowball it is still 40-50million km minimum (that's what is in our solar system between Mercury and Venus or Venus and Earth). So at the very minimum that's about 2.5-3 times the speed of light. The maximum can easily be a around 10,000x the speed of light. I am not that impressed personally though but that's at least a sort of travelling speed feat which we know are lower than fighting speeds - I would expect the fighting speed in short ranges to be much higher given that Tao can outjump a pillar moving at least at 10km/s and since then we had a shitload of ridiculous speed increases. Even if you assumed power levels scaling was linear (which is not as it is non-linear and rather exponential) Freeza should had been 10 million km/s ---that is 33x the speed of light.

I am not even scaling Champa from Whis galaxy crossing feat which puts Champa at hundreds of billion x FTL. Can Hit even survive in space?

How would you exactly do this? Before telling me I should say that as far as we know Champa, Beerus, Goku and Vegeta are obviously just passengers carried by Vados and Whis.

[Faisal Shourov]

So do you think USSJ Trunks has surpassed Perfect Cell? Just a yes/no question please.

No, because Trunks was much slower, while Champa >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Goku and Hit in speed. So much that Tokitoboshi does not even matter. Hit was scared witless since he knew that

[Faisal Shourov]

How would you exactly do this? Before telling me I should say that as far as we know Champa, Beerus, Goku and Vegeta are obviously just passengers carried by Vados and Whis.

Episode 2 of Dragon Ball Super

[Speedster]

So what's with those screenshots? Beerus is impatient? Can you elaborate your thinking because It doesn't seem to be something self-explanatory.

[Chiki]

So do you think USSJ Trunks has surpassed Perfect Cell? Just a yes/no question please.

No, because Trunks was much slower, while Champa >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Goku and Hit in speed. So much that Tokitoboshi does not even matter. Hit was scared witless since he knew that

Do you think Saiyan Saga Vegeta > Goku post-Kai training?

[Faisal Shourov]

So what's with those screenshots? Beerus is impatient? Can you elaborate your thinking because It doesn't seem to be something self-explanatory.

Yes, three scans were missing. Beerus ordered Whis to get dinousaur meat in 3 minutes. After 1 minute had passed, Beerus asked if Whis was there yet (that's why Whis said there was still 2 minutes left). After that, Beerus took 1 minute 20 second to get to the planet himself







Watch the scene here https://youtu.be/v-HuP1_1Eyo?t=9m50s

[pacz360]

Yeah i gonna intervene in this 1.Powerscaling exist otherwise saiyan saga piccolo>zarbon ,namek saga freeza>vegito 2.Beerus and champa are stronger than hit kkx10 and ssjblue goku theres no question champa Didn't care about hit time stop nor ssjb not only that with tori's comment goku ain't surpassing the gods anytime soon.

[pacz360]

Also people are forgetting that beerus can nullify energy ?

[Saiyan007]

So what's with those screenshots? Beerus is impatient? Can you elaborate your thinking because It doesn't seem to be something self-explanatory.

basically Beerus isn't much slower than Whis staff

So whatever feats Whis staff does it can be scaled to Beerus

[Marlowe89]

And Cipher is absolutely wrong, since he has contradicted Toriyama's words and the anime by saying that Goku surpassed Beerus.

Except Cipher never said that, and in fact he agreed that Goku isn't ready to face Beerus yet (as most of us do).

Goku hypothetically having more raw strength than Beerus through a very fleeting, temporary power-up doesn't necessarily mean that he "surpassed" him when the past two episodes made it absolutely clear that there are ways of defeating Goku even if his strength with Kaioken exceeds the fighter in question. Champa outright said that avoiding Goku is a perfect counter to his absurd strength, and Hit could do that with his time-skip ability. Goku definitely wasn't in any condition to fight after his match with Hit, so Beerus' point stands either way, and it certainly doesn't change Beerus' implied nervousness and Champa's demonstrated nervousness when Goku was at his best in that fight.

The whole point of Goku's "Not yet" comment when replying to Hit's dialogue about them being pawns is to show that both of them have the potential to defeat Beerus/Champa - Hit probably just hasn't perfected his time-skip yet, and Goku's time limit with Kaioken is far too low to make him a viable challenge right now.

[Faisal Shourov]

that both of them have the potential to defeat Beerus/Champa

Toriyama said he has no plans to make Goku surpass Beerus, yet people make headcanon hypothesis and assumption that Goku has potential to beat Beerus. As if nobody has understood what ''right now, I don't have any plans'' mean. Not only Goku hasn't surpassed Beerus yet, he won't in near future. It means Goku doesn't have the potential to beat Beerus, and to think otherwise is creating headcanon interpretation which contradicts Word of God. If they had potential, Toriyama would've said Goku would surpass Beerus someday, or has already surpassed. None of which is the case

[Speedster]

So what's with those screenshots? Beerus is impatient? Can you elaborate your thinking because It doesn't seem to be something self-explanatory.

basically Beerus isn't much slower than Whis staff

So whatever feats Whis staff does it can be scaled to Beerus

But we are not shown such a thing at all. For all we know even Goku was talking and complaining about peeing on himself and interact with Whis while he was being carried by Whis at those speeds. Heck even in the cube all those earthlings could eat and interact like nothing. In either case it is like being in a plane. If I know how much time had elapsed or watch out of the window or anything it doesn't mean that I can fly at the speed of the plane myself. Claiming I could it would be ridiculous.