Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[TheMikado]

He will get some God water and power up to Zen'o levels. dramatically overshadowing Beerus & Whis. He can already basically outrun time and powerful enough to break the universe/reality. Once he gets God water he will be strong enough to break the 4th wall and punch through your TV.

[Zephyr]

Just a random thought I had.

Since Toriyama hasn't necessarily implied that the 6/10/15 scale is supposed to function exactly like Freeza's battle power scale, should we automatically be assuming that it does?

Do you guys think it's possible that the scale is exponential instead of multiplicative, with the Kaioken being the latter?

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

He will get some God water and power up to Zen'o levels. dramatically overshadowing Beerus & Whis. He can already basically outrun time and powerful enough to break the universe/reality. Once he gets God water he will be strong enough to break the 4th wall and punch through your TV.

Sounds hella OP.

[Khin]

@Zephyr

People assumed it works like Power Level due to a statement from the movie.Whis said that Beerus used 70% of his power against Goku.

[VegettoEX]

Just a random thought I had.

Since Toriyama hasn't necessarily implied that the 6/10/15 scale is supposed to function exactly like Freeza's battle power scale, should we automatically be assuming that it does?

Do you guys think it's possible that the scale is exponential instead of multiplicative, with the Kaioken being the latter?

I guess I don't understand why said comparative scale couldn't just have been an assessment/declaration of their respective powers at that point in time and for that particular film. Strength is fluid and changes as we've seen countless times in the series.

[Brian4205]

So, quick question. When Goku says Frost was stronger than Freeza, he does he mean pre-Golden form, or post-Golden Form. It seems to me Goku is talking about Freeza's 4th form vs Frost's 4th form, but I've heard a few people imply Golden Form, which just doesn't make sense to me. Please and than you!

[Speedster]

Just a random thought I had.

Since Toriyama hasn't necessarily implied that the 6/10/15 scale is supposed to function exactly like Freeza's battle power scale, should we automatically be assuming that it does?

Do you guys think it's possible that the scale is exponential instead of multiplicative, with the Kaioken being the latter?

I guess I don't understand why said comparative scale couldn't just have been an assessment/declaration of their respective powers at that point in time and for that particular film. Strength is fluid and changes as we've seen countless times in the series.

The thing is that even in DBSuper, Beerus made a statement that he used 10% against enraged Vegeta. As SSG Goku was shown pushing Beerus far more than Vegeta did, Beerus would have to use more power against SSG Goku reasonably implying that SSG Goku had to be at the very least as powerful as 10% Beerus. And that excluding as lies all those "I am using 100% statements" and ignoring the differences in the destructive collateral damage (universal level) presented in the fight of SSG vs Beerus.

Anyway it follows that if this whole system of percentile quotes was indeed following the scouter scaling then x10 Kaioken would put Goku equal to Beerus. That because in the scouter power scaling of the original manga it was established that Kaioken times A multiplies your power level by A. But Goku being equal to Beerus is apparently not true given Toriyama's comments in his last interview (no plans to make Goku surpassing Beerus) as well a Champa's (and Beerus) actions at the end of ep.40. So either way you slice it, the Beerus scale IN DB SUPER needs to be different from the scouter one. Unless you assume that Beerus trained inside Whis stuff and got stronger which is unlikely enough to begin with and even more unlikely to also be applicable to Champa.

[Khin]

So, quick question. When Goku says Frost was stronger than Freeza, he does he mean pre-Golden form, or post-Golden Form. It seems to me Goku is talking about Freeza's 4th form vs Frost's 4th form, but I've heard a few people imply Golden Form, which just doesn't make sense to me. Please and than you!

I think Goku was talking about Freeza in general.If Frost trains,he'd probably gain an "Ultimate" Evolution like Freeza.Frost in his Assault Form looks slightly stronger than Base Goku who trained in the RoSaT for 3 years.Base Goku in RoF was more or less on par with Final Form Freeza.

[dbgtFO]

So, quick question. When Goku says Frost was stronger than Freeza, he does he mean pre-Golden form, or post-Golden Form. It seems to me Goku is talking about Freeza's 4th form vs Frost's 4th form, but I've heard a few people imply Golden Form, which just doesn't make sense to me. Please and than you!

Can you point us to the episode or chapter, where Goku supposedly claims that?

[Khin]

So, quick question. When Goku says Frost was stronger than Freeza, he does he mean pre-Golden form, or post-Golden Form. It seems to me Goku is talking about Freeza's 4th form vs Frost's 4th form, but I've heard a few people imply Golden Form, which just doesn't make sense to me. Please and than you!

Can you point us to the episode or chapter, where Goku supposedly claims that?

Goku said it the manga.Chapter 10 i think.

[dbgtFO]

He didn't say Frost was stronger than Freeza, right?

[LowRyder2005]

So, quick question. When Goku says Frost was stronger than Freeza, he does he mean pre-Golden form, or post-Golden Form. It seems to me Goku is talking about Freeza's 4th form vs Frost's 4th form, but I've heard a few people imply Golden Form, which just doesn't make sense to me. Please and than you!

The manga or the anime? In both cases, Goku just says that if Frost keeps training he will definitely become stronger, since that's what Freeza had done.
So even though it appears like a lot of people want to take it as a confirmation of Frost < Freeza, it's not really, strenght-wise, a comparison between the two anyway. It's just a generic remark that, unlike Freeza, Frost hadn't reached his full potential.

[Chiki]

Just a random thought I had.

Since Toriyama hasn't necessarily implied that the 6/10/15 scale is supposed to function exactly like Freeza's battle power scale, should we automatically be assuming that it does?

Do you guys think it's possible that the scale is exponential instead of multiplicative, with the Kaioken being the latter?

It was just a simple remark for an interview. I doubt Toriyama thinks as deeply about power levels as any of us do. Like I said, the guy doesn't even remember Tao Pai Pai or SS2.

The fact that power levels are such a gigantic mess in DB Super should tell you that Toriyama doesn't think deeply about this in the slightest.

[Khin]

He didn't say Frost was stronger than Freeza, right?

He said "If you train,you will become stronger,that's what Freeza did." or something along those lines.

[Sandubadear]

Champa arc

Spoiler:

Goku: 6,200,000
--Super Saiyan: 30,000,000
--Super Saiyan Blue: 85,000,000
Vegeta: 6,200,000
--Super Saiyan: 30,000,000
--Super Saiyan Blue: 85,000,000
Piccolo: 800,000
--Makankosappo: 6,000,000

Botamo: 1,200,000
Frost (1st form): 450,000
--Assault form: 2,000,000
--True form: 15,000,000
----Weakened: 4,000,000
Cabba: 1,500,000
--Super Saiyan: 10,000,000
Magetta: 20,000,000
Weakened SSJ Vegeta: 15,000,000

Hit (holding back): 8,000,000
--Full power: 400,000,000
Super Kaioken x10 Blue Goku: 850,000,000
Monaca: ∞

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I remember when people were saying Goku's statement meant Frost was inferior to Freeza. Glad to see that nothing of the sort is implied.

[Chiki]

I remember when people were saying Goku's statement meant Frost was inferior to Freeza. Glad to see that nothing of the sort is implied.

It does imply that. Goku thought Buu would be great for the tournament. Keep in mind that Buu never trains. If Buu would have defeated Frost, it's obvious that FF Frost is way way below RoF FF Frieza.

[Khin]

I already said this before.Goku never knew how strong the Universe 6 team will turn out,he himself said it.

[dbgtFO]

As far as Kaio-ken is concerned, I really wouldn't be surprised, if that was just another Toei invention. They already did so in the afterlife filler after all and it would line up with how much fanservice there seems to be in the anime, what with Piccolo's Makankossapo & Vegeta's Gallick Gun and Final Flash vs. Magetta, so Goku also got to use one of his old moves. It'll be interesting to see how the manga handles it.

Of course as far as power levels are concerned it'd still mean, that SSB Goku/Vegeta are going to be less than a tenth of Beerus' power in the anime.

[Khin]

Yeah.And Goku saying that he should lay off the Kaio-ken for a while was just TOEI's excuse to remove it.But we probably won't have the Hit vs. Goku fight in the manga up until July.