The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Bullza]

Hit vs Golden Frieza

Hit can't use his time skip ability and Golden Frieza's power doesn't decrease at an accelerated rate.

[apex_pretador]

Hit vs Golden Frieza

Hit can't use his time skip ability and Golden Frieza's power doesn't decrease at an accelerated rate.

If it is pre-improvement hit, then freeza wins. If it is post improvement hit, then it is not even fair.

[Khin]

Hit vs Golden Frieza

Hit can't use his time skip ability and Golden Frieza's power doesn't decrease at an accelerated rate.

Freeza absolutely crushes Hit.He was getting wrecked by SSB Goku once the latter starts to counter his tokitobashi.I personally have the Post RoSaT SSBs and Golden Freeza as equals.

[Roronoa-pt]

apex_pretador wrote:
- GT Piccolo vs U6 arc Piccolo

- Namekian merging of above 2 piccolos vs SS Gogeta (M 12), no time limit

If I have to guess, I would say U6's Piccolo power should be similar to SSJ3 Goku ( from Buu saga ). Piccolo stomps his GT conterpart.
Gogeta, after an epic battle.

Bullza wrote:
Hit vs Golden Frieza

Hit can't use his time skip ability and Golden Frieza's power doesn't decrease at an accelerated rate.

Without his special ability, Hit is done for. Golden Frieza wins.


New battles:

- Monaka vs Roshi
- Champa is pissed because U7 lost the tournament and wants to kill the five warriors. Zetto Senshi step in to defend them. Champa's beam of anger vs Roshi's full power Kamehameha, Chaozu's dodonpa, Yamcha's kamehameha, Kuririn's kamehameha, Ten's Shin Kikoho, Piccolo's Hellzone Grenade, SSJ Goten's kamehameha, SSJ Trunks's finish buster, SSB Vegeta's Bing Bang Attack and SSB Goku's Kaiokenx10 Kamehameha. Can they deflect the attack from the God of Destruction ?

[Videls_Panties]

apex_pretador wrote:
- GT Piccolo vs U6 arc Piccolo

- Namekian merging of above 2 piccolos vs SS Gogeta (M 12), no time limit

If I have to guess, I would say U6's Piccolo power should be similar to SSJ3 Goku ( from Buu saga ). Piccolo stomps his GT conterpart.
Gogeta, after an epic battle.

Bullza wrote:
Hit vs Golden Frieza

Hit can't use his time skip ability and Golden Frieza's power doesn't decrease at an accelerated rate.

Without his special ability, Hit is done for. Golden Frieza wins.


New battles:

- Monaka vs Roshi
- Champa is pissed because U7 lost the tournament and wants to kill the five warriors. Zetto Senshi step in to defend them. Champa's beam of anger vs Roshi's full power Kamehameha, Chaozu's dodonpa, Yamcha's kamehameha, Kuririn's kamehameha, Ten's Shin Kikoho, Piccolo's Hellzone Grenade, SSJ Goten's kamehameha, SSJ Trunks's finish buster, SSB Vegeta's Bing Bang Attack and SSB Goku's Kaiokenx10 Kamehameha. Can they deflect the attack from the God of Destruction ?

Roshi
No that's sounds stupid...hellzone grenade isn't even a beam or a combinable attack...just what?

[Captain Space]

- Champa is pissed because U7 lost the tournament and wants to kill the five warriors. Zetto Senshi step in to defend them. Champa's beam of anger vs Roshi's full power Kamehameha, Chaozu's dodonpa, Yamcha's kamehameha, Kuririn's kamehameha, Ten's Shin Kikoho, Piccolo's Hellzone Grenade, SSJ Goten's kamehameha, SSJ Trunks's finish buster, SSB Vegeta's Bing Bang Attack and SSB Goku's Kaiokenx10 Kamehameha. Can they deflect the attack from the God of Destruction ?

It's pretty likely Goku's KKx10 can overpower it on his own, honestly.

[Khin]

- Champa is pissed because U7 lost the tournament and wants to kill the five warriors. Zetto Senshi step in to defend them. Champa's beam of anger vs Roshi's full power Kamehameha, Chaozu's dodonpa, Yamcha's kamehameha, Kuririn's kamehameha, Ten's Shin Kikoho, Piccolo's Hellzone Grenade, SSJ Goten's kamehameha, SSJ Trunks's finish buster, SSB Vegeta's Bing Bang Attack and SSB Goku's Kaiokenx10 Kamehameha. Can they deflect the attack from the God of Destruction ?

Everyone except for Goku and Vegeta is extremely irrelevant here.Champa overpowers Goku and Vegeta's beam with slight difficulty.

[apex_pretador]

New battles:

- Monaka vs Roshi
- Champa is pissed because U7 lost the tournament and wants to kill the five warriors. Zetto Senshi step in to defend them. Champa's beam of anger vs Roshi's full power Kamehameha, Chaozu's dodonpa, Yamcha's kamehameha, Kuririn's kamehameha, Ten's Shin Kikoho, Piccolo's Hellzone Grenade, SSJ Goten's kamehameha, SSJ Trunks's finish buster, SSB Vegeta's Bing Bang Attack and SSB Goku's Kaiokenx10 Kamehameha. Can they deflect the attack from the God of Destruction ?

- Roshi

- I'm assuming that champa can't use his energy manipulation.
BBA and Hellzone grenade can't be used in this way. If you want to use them, replace it with, say demonic wave and galick gun.
In which case I'll back up team thanks to Galick gun / KHH combo . Tien dies anyways.
If we assume they all use the attacks you listed, they die horribly when goku tires out.

[Captain Space]

Everyone except for Goku and Vegeta is extremely irrelevant here.Champa overpowers Goku and Vegeta's beam with slight difficulty.

So...you think Champa is more than eleven times stronger than a SSB?

[Khin]

So...you think Champa is more than eleven times stronger than a SSB?

Yes.Goku still considers himself inferior to Monaka.Going by Monaka's hype,he should be slightly weaker than Beerus.Vados also stated that Champa can punish SSBKKx10 Goku and Hit at anytime.

[Captain Space]

So...you think Champa is more than eleven times stronger than a SSB?

Yes.Goku still considers himself inferior to Monaka.Going by Monaka's hype,he should be slightly weaker than Beerus.Vados also stated that Champa can punish SSBKKx10 Goku and Hit at anytime.

I thought Goku was referring to his normal SSB power there, since he couldn't sustain KK for long, it only has less than a one in ten chance of working anyway at this point, and he can't do it again for a while. As for Vados, A. she could just be playing to Champa's ego and getting him to calm down for the moment, and B. if they did properly fight, Goku wouldn't last nearly long enough in KK to win.

Plus, Beerus used 10% of his power against Rageta, and he had to power up a couple times fighting SSG Goku, ergo SSG Goku exceeds 10% Beerus. SSB is stronger than SSG, Champa is seemingly a bit weaker than Beerus, so there doesn't seem to be a way that x10 Goku could not be stronger than Champa--and indeed Beerus (who seemed worried about Goku's x10 power, though I guess you could say that he was just worried about Goku approaching him if it wasn't for the other stuff).

[Khin]

- I thought Goku was referring to his normal SSB power there, since he couldn't sustain KK for long, it only has less than a one in ten chance of working anyway at this point, and he can't do it again for a while. As for Vados, A. she could just be playing to Champa's ego and getting him to calm down for the moment, and B. if they did properly fight, Goku wouldn't last nearly long enough in KK to win.

- Plus, Beerus used 10% of his power against Rageta, and he had to power up a couple times fighting SSG Goku, ergo SSG Goku exceeds 10% Beerus. SSB is stronger than SSG, Champa is seemingly a bit weaker than Beerus, so there doesn't seem to be a way that x10 Goku could not be stronger than Champa--and indeed Beerus (who seemed worried about Goku's x10 power, though I guess you could say that he was just worried about Goku approaching him if it wasn't for the other stuff).

— Going by the line,he seems to imply that Monaka is stronger than him.He told Beerus to calm down because they still got Monaka,who's even "stronger" than him.

Context: Monaka is next.

　15:19 | Beerus: "Do you realize what you've done?!"
　15:23 | Goku: "Even if we'd kept goin', I woulda run out of time for the Kaio-ken and lost anyway."
　15:40 | Goku: "Look, we've still got Monaka, remember? He's even stronger than me!"
　15:45 | Whis: "Oh, that's right~!"

We don't know if Vados is aware of the strain of the Kaioken.Vados is often sarcastic to Champa,but in the line,she doesn't look like she's just joking around.
— We already had this debate before.And i decided to put Rageta at 1%.If the SSB tiers aren't that much weaker than Beerus,Hit wouldn't hesitate attacking Champa.

[Captain Space]

I dunno...if it was saiyan saga Goku, he'd probably consider someone at, say, 28K to be "stronger than him", right? Since his x4 was this absolute last-ditch body-destroying measure and not really representative of his "actual" strength.

Rageta doesn't have to be anything special beyond 1% or whatever, it just means that *Beerus* was at 10% and then powered up some more to match SSG Goku, ergo *Goku* was unquestionably above Beerus' 10% in SSG. With the range left open by that, SSB could well be something like 30-60% of Beerus/Champa, making it still a pretty much impossible fight for Hit.

EDIT: Forgot to reply to the Vados thing, sorry. I guess it depends on if anyone in the series ever demonstrated the ability to sense like, "Oh, this person's ki is strained/fluctuating" or whatever . Because if it's possible, she and Whis can probably do it. They tend to know stuff.

[Roronoa-pt]

New battles:

- Monaka vs Roshi
- Champa is pissed because U7 lost the tournament and wants to kill the five warriors. Zetto Senshi step in to defend them. Champa's beam of anger vs Roshi's full power Kamehameha, Chaozu's dodonpa, Yamcha's kamehameha, Kuririn's kamehameha, Ten's Shin Kikoho, Piccolo's Hellzone Grenade, SSJ Goten's kamehameha, SSJ Trunks's finish buster, SSB Vegeta's Bing Bang Attack and SSB Goku's Kaiokenx10 Kamehameha. Can they deflect the attack from the God of Destruction ?

- Roshi

- I'm assuming that champa can't use his energy manipulation.
BBA and Hellzone grenade can't be used in this way. If you want to use them, replace it with, say demonic wave and galick gun.
In which case I'll back up team thanks to Galick gun / KHH combo . Tien dies anyways.
If we assume they all use the attacks you listed, they die horribly when goku tires out.

I mean Piccolo's huge blast against Cell 1st form and Final Flash for Vegeta. My mistake.

[Khin]

- I dunno...if it was saiyan saga Goku, he'd probably consider someone at, say, 28K to be "stronger than him", right? Since his x4 was this absolute last-ditch body-destroying measure and not really representative of his "actual" strength.

- Rageta doesn't have to be anything special beyond 1% or whatever, it just means that *Beerus* was at 10% and then powered up some more to match SSG Goku, ergo *Goku* was unquestionably above Beerus' 10% in SSG. With the range left open by that, SSB could well be something like 30-60% of Beerus/Champa, making it still a pretty much impossible fight for Hit.

— That's an unfair comparison.Goku back in Saiyan Arc can only use the Kaio-ken x4 for about 1 second and Kaio-ken x3 for a few seconds.In Champa Arc,Goku can sustain Kaio-ken x10 for a few minutes,like Super Saiyan 3.

— That would make Goku 3 - 6x stronger than Beerus and Champa.After the fight,Beerus doesn't state anything about Goku surpassing his power,in fact he said "Congratulations,both of you did well" instead of "Congratulations,to think you surpassed me even for a few minutes".Hit was keeping up with Kaio-ken x10 Goku,if Goku's about 3 - 6x stronger than Beerus,he wouldn't hesitate attacking Champa.

[apex_pretador]

- I'm assuming that champa can't use his energy manipulation.
BBA and Hellzone grenade can't be used in this way. If you want to use them, replace it with, say demonic wave and galick gun.
In which case I'll back up team thanks to Galick gun / KHH combo . Tien dies anyways.
If we assume they all use the attacks you listed, they die horribly when goku tires out.

I mean Piccolo's huge blast against Cell 1st form and Final Flash for Vegeta. My mistake.

So vegeta gets to charge final flash before beam struggle? If so, then team wins. If not , champa can hold off till goku tires.

[Captain Space]

— That's an unfair comparison.Goku back in Saiyan Arc can only use the Kaio-ken x4 for about 1 second and Kaio-ken x3 for a few seconds.In Champa Arc,Goku can sustain Kaio-ken x10 for a few minutes,like Super Saiyan 3.

— That would make Goku 3 - 6x stronger than Beerus and Champa.After the fight,Beerus doesn't state anything about Goku surpassing his power,in fact he said "Congratulations,both of you did well" instead of "Congratulations,to think you surpassed me even for a few minutes".Hit was keeping up with Kaio-ken x10 Goku,if Goku's about 3 - 6x stronger than Beerus,he wouldn't hesitate attacking Champa.

-True, but it's still a technique that's not really his 'normal level'. He doesn't even know if it would work, he can't do it again for a while...

-Didn't he only consider attacking Champa after powering down and no longer being able to use KK for a bit, as well as generally being in really bad shape? And you make a good point of Beerus' reaction there, but he was still visibly worried when Goku first did it (which Whis poked fun at him for), and if x10 Goku is still not on his level, that leads us to the somewhat baffling conclusion that Beerus used more power against Vegeta than against SSG Goku. Which seems odd.

[Khin]

-True, but it's still a technique that's not really his 'normal level'. He doesn't even know if it would work, he can't do it again for a while...

- Didn't he only consider attacking Champa after powering down and no longer being able to use KK for a bit, as well as generally being in really bad shape?

- And you make a good point of Beerus' reaction there, but he was still visibly worried when Goku first did it (which Whis poked fun at him for), and if x10 Goku is still not on his level, that leads us to the somewhat baffling conclusion that Beerus used more power against Vegeta than against SSG Goku. Which seems odd.

— So just because it's technique it doesn't count ? Honestly,it's like saying Goku is inferior to Ginyu when they fought.

— And after that,Champa told him that he won't leave here alive.Hit then,stands there not doing anything and having a worried face.I don't think he's in a bad shape either,he only had a few bruises.Champa told Hit to use the Tokitobashi.

— I also already had this kind of debate before.Beerus himself said he said he wasn't worried,he just wondered why Goku was so reluctant to use it.And even if he is,it could be Beerus was just worried because the Kaio-ken multiplies the user's power and he doesn't know the strain it have when combined with SSB,meaning he could be tanking Kaio-ken x20 Goku or something into account.Elder Kaioshin knows the technique and Beerus and Kaio seems close to each,so it wouldn't be too far-fetched.

　18:06 | Whis: "Oh? A bit worried, are you?"
　18:11 | Beerus: "As if!"
　18:13 | Whis: "Oh? Then what were you thinking?"
　18:16 | Beerus: "Just that if he had such a convenient move, he shouldn't be so reluctant to use it!"

[Captain Space]

— So just because it's technique it doesn't count ? Honestly,it's like saying Goku is inferior to Ginyu when they fought.

— And after that,Champa told him that he won't leave here alive.Hit then,stands there not doing anything and having a worried face.I don't think he's in a bad shape either,he only had a few bruises.Champa told Hit to use the Tokitobashi.

— I also already had this kind of debate before.Beerus himself said he said he wasn't worried,he just wondered why Goku was so reluctant to use it.And even if he is,it could be Beerus was just worried because the Kaio-ken multiplies the user's power and he doesn't know the strain it have when combined with SSB,meaning he could be tanking Kaio-ken x20 Goku or something into account.Elder Kaioshin knows the technique and Beerus and Kaio seems close to each,so it wouldn't be too far-fetched.

　18:06 | Whis: "Oh? A bit worried, are you?"
　18:11 | Beerus: "As if!"
　18:13 | Whis: "Oh? Then what were you thinking?"
　18:16 | Beerus: "Just that if he had such a convenient move, he shouldn't be so reluctant to use it!"

-It's not anything like a stable or reliable technique. Goku could sustain x2 with ridiculous ease at the time he fought Ginyu.

-Hit says something along the lines of "So it has come to this" and looks like he's tensing up to fight. Anyway, I was referring to Goku so I don't see what you're saying here. The version I proposed still has Hit and non-KK SSB Goku as nowhere near Champa.

-I'm pretty sure Beerus was worried, from his expression and his response to Whis, his tone of voice had that "doth protest too much" thing going...at least to me. The gods are constantly getting verbally outplayed by their attendants--it happens a lot more to Champa, but it still happens to Beerus. And sure, it's possible that Beerus knows about the potential limits of it, but that seems much less likely and based on a couple maybes and assumptions versus what's in front of him being what worries him. Whether that means it's surpassed him or just worryingly close to him, or what.

[Bullza]

People really think Golden Frieza could beat Hit without his Time Skip ability?

What about him being tough enough to withstand SSJB Goku Kaioken x10's attacks? Or even hurt him?