Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

[JulieYBM]

Though I do think episode 5's first half was unquestionably bad, Yamamuro definitely hits the nail on the head with his comments.

"Animation is movement".

I sure wish Super's general audience were a little more cognisant of that.

You can't even call them the 'general audience'. A general audience would never think to go to the internet to discuss it.

[Alee9977]

I believe the bad schedule problems were in the Resurrection F arc. Almost every episode from 28 onwards had a good quality and were solids although they had their moments.
Does anyone have an idea of how the schedules are now?

[JulieYBM]

Archah has been gracious enough to translate the entire interview. It's not much of a shock but it seems that Yamamuro left Shindou Pro because of Morishita Kouzou's offer. He also states that he doesn't plan on leaving the franchise any time soon.

[Avok]

May God have mercy on us then.

[DragonHermit]

Why the hate on Yamamuro? E39 was epic.

[Sodhi]

Why the hate on Yamamuro? E39 was epic.

He did not animate anything in that episode though. It was just drawing of goku standing while charging up for kaioken.

[DragonHermit]

Looking back on these episodes, and it's just amateur mistakes. Just STATIC stupid-looking off-model faces all over the place that can be fixed in a matter of minutes. I can understand them not doing 15,000 frames an episode for a weekly show, but just letting stupid easily-corrigible mistakes get by is frustrating.

Like really, they couldn't spend another 3 minutes to fix Vegeta's off-model face here?



Or another 2 minutes fixing Goku's eyebrows here?



If they have shitty off model faces, move the characters farther away, show their backs, do something....

[kinisking]

Looking back on these episodes, and it's just amateur mistakes. Just STATIC stupid-looking off-model faces all over the place that can be fixed in a matter of minutes. I can understand them not doing 15,000 frames an episode for a weekly show, but just letting stupid easily-corrigible mistakes get by is frustrating.

Like really, they couldn't spend another 3 minutes to fix Vegeta's off-model face here?



Or another 2 minutes fixing Goku's eyebrows here?



If they have shitty off model faces, move the characters farther away, show their backs, do something....

They didn't have enough time. Yes it might seem like only 3 minutes of work but when you barely have enough time to make the other stills decent it's hard

[A Man named RJ]

Resurrection F isn't badly animated, but it's no masterpiece. Watch any One Piece film, and the difference in quality will astound you. The latest Z films -- including Battle of Gods -- are hardly movie tier works in comparison to Toei's other offerings.

HOLY SHIT! i wasn’t the only person that noticed that when put side by side with Film Z (2012) Battle of BoG (2013) looks mediocre?

take this clip from Film Z
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wa_aZbbFqW8
and this one as well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsBhpjalZy4

and take this one from Bog.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fF1c85ZXEkI

(and the infamous scene at 4:10 on that video)

the small clip from OP is just so much more dynamic, and interesting (and with the sparringly used CG it enhances the fight rather than takes away from it)

hell even the TELIVISION special has better animation than the newer movies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFj_BwLSsf8

That’s the thing it feels like the newer movies just aren’t as impactful as they should be. Sure you get a pretty sweet cut around the 1:40 mark, but the rest of that fight is relatively mediocre until Shida shows up fights that SHOULD look very impressive and well-choreographed turn out looking like CGI-abusing dirt. And yes I will harp on it, the CGI background is so distracting that it takes attention AWAY from the fighting, which clearly had a ton of effort put into it. The background shouldn't outshine the performer in scenes like this. If it does, YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING WRONG. You may as well put them in front of a giant dancing Toad singing "Hello My Baby"

In the BoG fight, we spent a whole movie building up to such a disappointing Climax. It wasn’t until Shida took over that the animation from there on was better, problem being at that point the fight was pretty much over. In Resurrection F, Goku's fight looked weak, Vegeta’s looked better. And all of these fights abuse the same poses and camera angles. Anything really complicated becomes CGI. Also something I noticed is "forced momentum" Goku is knocked back, his fall is rather slow, and he hits the ground immediately from a steep angle as if he would just land and get up (or sit there for a second because of the pain), but for some reason he goes flying through trees cliffs at a SIGNIFICANTLY faster speed (3:56) for 15 onscreen seconds.... there is no clear indicator whether Beerus kept hitting him off screen, it's a very strong disconnect, and something ill-advised in storyboarding.

In the OP Film Z fight the CGI is only used when Ain is jumping around, Zoro is 2d the whole (cept when he flies into frame at 1:03 and it's only for 2 seconds) time with the occasional blur effect on him. His movement is so fluid it actually matches AIn's and she is a 25 FPS CGI render.... that's insane. You can’t even tell that he switches really quickly between CGI and 2D, the animation remains consistent. So does the pace of the action, everything happens with a quick, and snappy pulse, no movement feels forced out or dragged out.

The people directing the OP films, understand how suspense in animation and storyboarding works
Hell, even the precure TV SHOW guys get it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2kYgrgLCG0

I’m shocked people call him good, when he's probably the most mediocre thing on Dragon Ball. Sure he's an OK animator but that’s just it, OK! The thing that makes the other projects I linked stand out is the fact that they're allowed to delve into much more complicated movements, the storyboarding is tight as hell. The Staff in charge clearly care about these projects and never get the time to do them right normally, so when they get that off chance to show off, they do. You hear people talking About One-Punch Man's success in the animation dept.? That’s why it looks so good. The animators are allowed to show off.

In DBZ movies and Super they aren’t? Show off a skill that looks slightly off model and you aren’t Naoki Tate or Shida and your shit will be "corrected" and by that, I mean downgraded.

[PMD]

Resurrection F isn't badly animated, but it's no masterpiece. Watch any One Piece film, and the difference in quality will astound you. The latest Z films -- including Battle of Gods -- are hardly movie tier works in comparison to Toei's other offerings.

HOLY SHIT! i wasn’t the only person that noticed that when put side by side with Film Z (2012) Battle of BoG (2013) looks mediocre?

take this clip from Film Z
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wa_aZbbFqW8
and this one as well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsBhpjalZy4

and take this one from Bog.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fF1c85ZXEkI

(and the infamous scene at 4:10 on that video)

Why that scene is "infamous"?

[Draconic]

Why that scene is "infamous"?

The horrible CGI.

[VejituhTheWarriorGuy]

That I can agree with. BoG and F look good but definitely not as good as the latest One Piece movies.

[kinisking]

I still prefer the dragonball movies because they have a much better art style imo

[Ajay]

I still prefer the dragonball movies because they have a much better art style imo

Oda's art style is definitely something that takes a while to get used to. Much like Nozawa's Goku, a lot of people tend to be turned away due to how vastly different it is from the norm. Give it some time, and you'll get used to it -- or better yet, learn to appreciate its intricacies. It's very good!

Regarding One Piece media vs Dragon Ball media, I do think One Piece has the edge there, actually. Each film and special tends to offer something unique in its visuals. While it's become a little more unified lately due to Masayuki Sato's recurring role, Koudai Watanabe's thick-lined angular approach in the 2D3Y special was a real treat. Throughout the previous films, there's been Eisaku Inoue's unique style, along with Hosoda's beautifully simplistic work on movie 6 (my personal favourite).

It'd be nice to see Dragon Ball handed over to various different people for TV specials and one-off films. A Naoki Tate or Koudai Watanabe-lead production would be awesome. Sadly, I don't think that's going to happen. The upper production staff don't seem all too interested in playing around with this series.

[kinisking]

I still prefer the dragonball movies because they have a much better art style imo

Oda's art style is definitely something that takes a while to get used to. Much like Nozawa's Goku, a lot of people tend to be turned away due to how vastly different it is from the norm. Give it some time, and you'll get used to it -- or better yet, learn to appreciate its intricacies. It's very good!

Regarding One Piece media vs Dragon Ball media, I do think One Piece has the edge there, actually. Each film and special tends to offer something unique in its visuals. While it's become a little more unified lately due to Masayuki Sato's recurring role, Koudai Watanabe's thick-lined angular approach in the 2D3Y special was a real treat. Throughout the previous films, there's been Eisaku Inoue's unique style, along with Hosoda's beautifully simplistic work on movie 6 (my personal favourite).

It'd be nice to see Dragon Ball handed over to various different people for TV specials and one-off films. A Naoki Tate or Koudai Watanabe-lead production would be awesome. Sadly, I don't think that's going to happen. The upper production staff don't seem all too interested in playing around with this series.

I read the manga for years and still think it's hideous haha. And yeah from what I've seen in this thread it does seem like One piece has some good effects, it's just that the overall art style still makes it look worse to me. Although I won't lie, some of the stuff is beautiful like Watanabe's

[ekrolo2]

After seeing how Lupin III 2015 looks, I'd kill to get a Dragon Ball show in the same vein.

Spoiler:

[Wezenheim]

Oda's art style is definitely something that takes a while to get used to. Much like Nozawa's Goku, a lot of people tend to be turned away due to how vastly different it is from the norm. Give it some time, and you'll get used to it -- or better yet, learn to appreciate its intricacies. It's very good!

Regarding One Piece media vs Dragon Ball media, I do think One Piece has the edge there, actually. Each film and special tends to offer something unique in its visuals. While it's become a little more unified lately due to Masayuki Sato's recurring role, Koudai Watanabe's thick-lined angular approach in the 2D3Y special was a real treat. Throughout the previous films, there's been Eisaku Inoue's unique style, along with Hosoda's beautifully simplistic work on movie 6 (my personal favourite).

It'd be nice to see Dragon Ball handed over to various different people for TV specials and one-off films. A Naoki Tate or Koudai Watanabe-lead production would be awesome. Sadly, I don't think that's going to happen. The upper production staff don't seem all too interested in playing around with this series.

Its actually kind of funny but I personally never had a problem with Oda's style. It certainly didn't grab me right off the bat, but I thought it was fine. Its definitely improved a lot since the first few chapters. I can see why art style can be a bit of a hang up for people, I just can't really get into the way Code Geass looks, even though I think the series itself is fine. I think its the eyes that bug me the most. That's another topic for another day though, haha.

I know other people might not be down for it, but I think a Tate led special/movie would be awesome! If One Piece episode 455 is any indication of what it might be like, then I'd be down. It won't happen, but yeah I'd love to see people play with Dragon Ball's style more. Dragon Ball needs more sakuga moments dammit!

Ekrolo2: I wouldn't mind that either!

[Draconic]

After seeing how Lupin III 2015 looks, I'd kill to get a Dragon Ball show in the same vein.

Spoiler:

Never watched it, but the art direction does look brilliant.

[FortuneSSJ]

Shida is working on One Piece Episode #739, too.

I was expectng that.

Spoiler:

I can't see anyone else doing Kaido's debut scene.

[kinisking]

I don't really love Super's new coloring; I think Z's is better. But damn kai's ending makes me want dragonball redone in super's coloring and animation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAtY60KFIDc